Beating Dead Horses

After a number of requests, a page summarizing the primary dead horses for this forum has been created. It is by no means exhaustive, nor does it indicate that further discussion on these topics is discouraged. It is designed to help people new to this group get up to speed on the main re-occuring debates so that they can take the discussions into new territory rather than re-hash the same 3-4 points that have been made over the last 7 years. If you have a suggestion about a topic that should be added to the page, email me the Topic, Suggestion, and Response and I will edit them and add them to the page. http://www.thelasombra.com/vtes_focs.htm Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com -- Posted from rr-163-54-196.atl.mediaone.net [24.163.54.196] via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:b67c278c584ca4afbdf...@mygate.mailgate.org... > After a number of requests, a page summarizing the primary dead horses for this > forum has been created. It is by no means exhaustive, nor does it indicate > that further discussion on these topics is discouraged. It is designed to help > people new to this group get up to speed on the main re-occuring debates so > that they can take the discussions into new territory rather than re-hash the > same 3-4 points that have been made over the last 7 years. > > If you have a suggestion about a topic that should be added to the page, email > me the Topic, Suggestion, and Response and I will edit them and add them to the > page. > > http://www.thelasombra.com/vtes_focs.htm Yeah, I have a suggestion. Can we not call it FOCS? How about something like 'F.requently A.rgued T.opics' or even better 'L.ist of A.lways the S.ame O.ld M.essage B.oard R.etired A.rguments'(that spells lasombra! hehe) -- Aaron The Nosferatu Stuff

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:02:12 +0000 (UTC), The Lasombra wrote: >After a number of requests, a page summarizing the >primary dead horses for this forum has been created. It's too tendentious. Clues like putting "improved" in quotes immediately tell the reader that this is propaganda. Anyway, you missed several of the actual common suggestions: * Artists other than Shy and Snelly should be used for the crypt cards - their vampires all look the same. * The WW web site should list all the cards whose text has changed so that we can more easily tell which they are. * The NRA rules should appear in the rulebook because the game is broken without them. * Succubus Club/Temptation of Greater Power/Archon Investigation/whatever should be banned because it is sick and wrong. * Weenies/Rush/S&B/5th Trad Bloat/whatever is sleazy, filthy, cheese. They should be curbed by means of <clever suggestion>. Andrew

"Andrew S. Davidson" <a...@csi.com> wrote in message news:92D803638F240A9D.E9D48D86...@lp.airnews.net... > On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:02:12 +0000 (UTC), The Lasombra wrote: > > >After a number of requests, a page summarizing the > >primary dead horses for this forum has been created. > > It's too tendentious. Clues like putting "improved" in quotes > immediately tell the reader that this is propaganda. There is no claim anywhere on the page that it isn't biased. I will change the page title to Propaganda immediately. > Anyway, you missed several of the actual common suggestions: > > * Artists other than Shy and Snelly should be used for the crypt cards - > their vampires all look the same. No one reading this newsgroup has any effect on the artists who are chosen by White Wolf, discussing it or repeating the argument on that page won't have any effect. > * The WW web site should list all the cards whose text has changed so > that we can more easily tell which they are. There isn't anyone arguing against this. If more different people request the information be added to White Wolf's site, it will be more likely to happen. > * The NRA rules should appear in the rulebook because the game is broken > without them. Maybe so. Write up both sides of the argument in a non-biased manner and I will add it to the page. > * Succubus Club/Temptation of Greater Power/Archon > Investigation/whatever should be banned because it is sick and wrong. This is what I am looking for. Write up both sides of the argument in a non-biased manner and I will add it to the page. > * Weenies/Rush/S&B/5th Trad Bloat/whatever is sleazy, filthy, cheese. > They should be curbed by means of <clever suggestion>. As the suggestion most frequently is a card limit, I believe it has been covered. If you have another, write up both sides of the argument in a non-biased manner and I will add it to the page. I only add non-biased to all the requirements because it means so much to you. If you discuss both sides thoroughly, presenting the arguments that both sides have put forth, then it doesn't matter to me which one has the better argument. When we used to point people to Mark Langsdorf's Card Limit articles, all the points they were making were discussed in those articles, but they didn't bother to read them. Now all the arguments are in one file, and their excuses are a lot less. It also is very easy to see what arguments one side or the other has already used, and expand on that argument or use a different one completely. [ quoted text not captured ]

Good post! Thanks, Iain Wilson VEKN Prince of Milton Keynes.

"Andrew S. Davidson" <a...@csi.com> wrote in message news:92D803638F240A9D.E9D48D86...@lp.airnews.net... > * The WW web site should list all the cards whose text has changed so > that we can more easily tell which they are. Ask, and ye shall receive. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/migration.html Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com -- Posted from rr-163-53-90.atl.attbroadband.com [24.163.53.90] [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:45:44 +0000 (UTC), The Lasombra wrote: >> * The WW web site should list all the cards whose text has changed so >> that we can more easily tell which they are. > >Ask, and ye shall receive. > >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/migration.html That's quite a nice summary though I'm a bit confused by the cards that have multiple entries (e.g. Elysium) and the preamble doesn't explain this. Andrew

"Andrew S. Davidson" wrote: > >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/migration.html > > That's quite a nice summary though I'm a bit confused by the cards > that have multiple entries (e.g. Elysium) and the preamble doesn't > explain this. See the enrties. It changed in one set one way and changed in another set another way (the latter not undoing the former, but merely compounding the change). This is too obvious to need to be explained in the preamble. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> That's quite a nice summary though I'm a bit confused by the cards > that have multiple entries (e.g. Elysium) and the preamble doesn't > explain this. It's used to track the history of the change. The VTES version clarified that it can only be used by the controller of one of the two combatants (you can't tap it to end someone else's combat, as you could with Mariel). Errata was added in DS allowing only Camarilla vampires to burn the location (wasn't needed before DS came out, as there were no non-Camarilla vampires at the time). Errata was added when Sabbat War came out changing Elysium so that it only ended combat between two Camarilla Vampires, thus removing it from many tournament decks. *chuckle* This was, presumably, because the Sabbat was getting an equivalent card in Purchase Pact. Fanboy