Cloak of the Gathering Question

I play a heavy bleed deck that starts out short on obfuscate skill, so Cloak of the Gathering is a handy card, as I understand it. But I'm not sure if I'm reading the superior skill correctly. That is: If I have an acting vamp with superior obfuscate (presumably taking any action), it can use CotG as a modifier to give +1 stealth to another vamp, even one belonging to another Methuselah. If this is correct, it raises a few questions in my mind: 1. Does the recipient vampire have to be ready? (It would seem not) 2. For how long does the recipient gain the +1 stealth? (Anything longer than the current turn would be excessive I think) 3. Does it matter whether or not the acting vampire is tapped? (Again it would seem not) 4. Can 1 vampire play more than 1 CotG per action? (It would seem so) So, if vamp1 performs an action and is tapped, and vamp2 (with superior Obfuscate) modifies its action with 1 or more CotG, then vamp1 could conceivably play a Freak Drive and prepare another action at +1 or more stealth. I love the sound of this, so I'd be interested in any serious feedback on my interpretations. ***Guy***

In article <321896...@hceltd.demon.co.uk>, Guy Keen <G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk> wrote: >But I'm not sure if I'm reading the superior skill correctly. That is: > > If I have an acting vamp with superior obfuscate (presumably taking > any action), it can use CotG as a modifier to give +1 stealth to > another vamp, even one belonging to another Methuselah. No, that's not it. It's a very poorly worded card. Here's how it works: It is usable by a minion other than the acting minion. That other minion gives +1 stealth to the acting minion. It is only usable on your turn. So for example: Rake calls a vote. Basilia on a sport bike tries to block. Sheldon, one of Rake's friends, lends Rake a little stealth. Basilia gets superior Cat's Guidance. Agrippina lends Rake a little more stealth. The vote gets called. Note a key advantage to Cloak that works out in the above example: Since it is not played by the acting minion, but is instead played by other minions, it can be used more than once during the same action. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

In article: <D4Myq...@rco.qc.ca> mord...@vircom.com (Martin Filion) writes: > > Guy Keen (G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk) wrote: > > I play a heavy bleed deck that starts out short on obfuscate skill, so > > Cloak of the Gathering is a handy card, as I understand it. > > > But I'm not sure if I'm reading the superior skill correctly. That is: > > > If I have an acting vamp with superior obfuscate (presumably taking > > any action), it can use CotG as a modifier to give +1 stealth to > > another vamp, even one belonging to another Methuselah. > Well... I won't have to answer those questions because it is not > correct. ;-) > > You can't use Action Modifiers when it's not your turn. So you > can't use Cloak the Gathering to stealth an action done by a vampire > when it's done by another Methuselah. Sorry Martin - I disagree again. The Australian V Canadian interpretation continues. I'm only talking about a situation where it's my turn and I'm taking an action. E.G. I've got a vampire with superior obfuscate that plays this card as a modifier to its action, to give +1 stealth to another vampire. > > You can't give a +1 Stealth to a vampire when he doesn't make an > action either because it says in the manual that you stealth only > when you need too (same thing with intercept). So there's no such thing > having Stealth or Intercept in bank untill needed. There is such a thing as this - that's how Psychic Projection (All minions have +1 intercept until your next untap phase) and Psychic Veil (+1 stealth to all vampires'/minions' actions this turn) work. One vampire takes the action, and if it's successful, the other vampires benefit accordingly. I'm suggesting that CotG apples in a similar fashion. Over to you, or anyone else, ***Guy***

G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk (Guy Keen) writes: [ quoted text not captured ] A. CtG is an Action modifier and can only modify the stealth of the Acting Vampire. Since other methuselah's minions are not acting (Madness.Net notwithstanding), you can't modify their stealth. B. You can't play action modifiers that give stealth nor reaction cards that give intercept unless you need them. You can take actions that do so any time (hey, they're actions, right?). (Little rulebook, p.28 para 2&3.) CtG is an action modifier, so it can't be played unless you need the stealth.

Guy Keen (G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk) wrote: : There is such a thing as this - that's how Psychic Projection (All : minions have +1 intercept until your next untap phase) and Psychic Veil : (+1 stealth to all vampires'/minions' actions this turn) work. One : vampire takes the action, and if it's successful, the other vampires : benefit accordingly. I'm suggesting that CotG apples in a similar fashion. This is an example of the card text overriding the basic rules, as hapens often in almost all CCGs. Psychic projection _has_ to say "...until your next untap phase." because if it didn't it would be a pretty useless card. The rulebook says: "Increased stealth and intercept return to normal after the action is resolved." (13.3.2 - last sentence before examples.) Note - it does not say "...increased stealth/intercept _of the acting and blocking minions_ ...", thus _all_ increased stealth/intercept returns to normal. It has to, or someone could try this trick: A: I bleed at +1 stealth B: I use enhanced sensed on V1 to get +1 intercept and block. A: I increase stealth to +2 B: I use Sup. Enhanced Senses on V2 to get +2 intercept and block. A: I increase stealth to +3. B: I declare V3 as a new blocker, and use cards to give him +3 intercept. A: Blocked. [Combat] A: Cool. Now since increased Stealth/intercept only returns to normal for the blocker and acting vamp, I now have V1 with +1 intercept and V2 with +2 intercept. That was fun.... Do somthing - I want to block it... (remember: V1 and V2 are _not_ blockers in the game sense of the word, since they were unsuccessful in their blocks.) If you wanna play this way as a house rule, more power to ya - just be sure that everyone knows that it _is_ a house rule. Shane Travis | There are two kinds of men who never amount to sht...@duke.usask.ca | very much: those who cannot do what they are told, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | and those who can do nothing else. | -- Cyrus H.K. Curtis

Guy Keen (G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk) wrote: : I play a heavy bleed deck that starts out short on obfuscate skill, so : Cloak of the Gathering is a handy card, as I understand it. : If I have an acting vamp with superior obfuscate (presumably taking : any action), it can use CotG as a modifier to give +1 stealth to : another vamp, even one belonging to another Methuselah. : If this is correct, it raises a few questions in my mind: : 1. Does the recipient vampire have to be ready? (It would seem not) Yes, the recipient should be ready. Why? Becasue you are stealthing an action that the recipient is making. It would be pointless to stealth a vampire that cna't do anything on this turn. : 2. For how long does the recipient gain the +1 stealth? (Anything : longer than the current turn would be excessive I think) Well, the most (not all) stealth and intercept cards work, is that the vampire gains stealth for the action that it is performing. So, if you performing an action using that stealth, it's gone once you're done. You can't save steralth, except by holding the card in your hand til a later time...(= : 3. Does it matter whether or not the acting vampire is tapped? (Again : it would seem not) I think it matters...ok, you've got atpaped vamp...he can't do anything...what happens? He sits there twiddling his thumbs..but he's really stealthy at it...utterly useless... : 4. Can 1 vampire play more than 1 CotG per action? (It would seem so) No, to use the CotG you have to tap the vampire...once tapped it can't play another one. Get another vamp with obfuscate to do it. ---Kith -- Listen, I can't say why I done the shit I done... I wish I could say I was sorry, but I ain't. I'm a monster... Burnin' from the inside... Obedience is submission veiled with gravity. I never let nothing define or limit me. --Funboy (in the Crow) ---James O'Barr ============================================================================= Kith Lornien/Kilteer/Nate King/Chris Keller/Jake Kentigern/Vruethilis/me ============================================================================= krae...@iii.net krae...@nether.net kil...@escape.com(temp. unavailable)

Guy Keen (G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk) wrote: : I play a heavy bleed deck that starts out short on obfuscate skill, so : Cloak of the Gathering is a handy card, as I understand it. : But I'm not sure if I'm reading the superior skill correctly. That is: : If I have an acting vamp with superior obfuscate (presumably taking : any action), it can use CotG as a modifier to give +1 stealth to : another vamp, even one belonging to another Methuselah. True...unless it says "...a minion you control", you can give it to anyone. (I don't have the card on hand right now). Note that it's any MINION, not any vampire. Big difference when using allies. : If this is correct, it raises a few questions in my mind: : 1. Does the recipient vampire have to be ready? (It would seem not) Yes, obviously! Because a vampire in torpor (or uncontrolled) cannot take an action! What you need to grok here is that CotG is an ACTION MODIFIER, that modifies the other minion's current action. : 2. For how long does the recipient gain the +1 stealth? (Anything : longer than the current turn would be excessive I think) Again, it is an ACTION MODIFIER, so it only applies to the action it's being used for. : 3. Does it matter whether or not the acting vampire is tapped? (Again : it would seem not) Because a tapped vampire cannot take an action, you cannot use CtG to give a tapped vampire stealth. : 4. Can 1 vampire play more than 1 CotG per action? (It would seem so) Each minion may only play one action modifier per action (read the small book). But you COULD have three different vamps with Sup. Obfuscate use CtG on one vamp for his current action, giving him +3 stealth. : So, if vamp1 performs an action and is tapped, and vamp2 (with superior : Obfuscate) modifies its action with 1 or more CotG, then vamp1 could : conceivably play a Freak Drive and prepare another action at +1 : or more stealth. Nope. If you want an example or something to help understand better, let me know. -- Meow!

Purple Kitty (pki...@netcom.com) wrote: : Guy Keen (G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk) wrote: : : I play a heavy bleed deck that starts out short on obfuscate skill, so : : Cloak of the Gathering is a handy card, as I understand it. : : But I'm not sure if I'm reading the superior skill correctly. That is: : : If I have an acting vamp with superior obfuscate (presumably taking : : any action), it can use CotG as a modifier to give +1 stealth to : : another vamp, even one belonging to another Methuselah. : True...unless it says "...a minion you control", you can give it to : anyone. (I don't have the card on hand right now). Note that it's any : MINION, not any vampire. Big difference when using allies. You cannot play action mods on another Meth`s actions simnce AM's are only playable during the acting Meth's turn BY the acting Meth.

krae...@iii1.iii.net (Hallowed Visionary) writes: >Guy Keen (G...@hceltd.demon.co.uk) wrote: >: I play a heavy bleed deck that starts out short on obfuscate skill, so >: Cloak of the Gathering is a handy card, as I understand it. >: If I have an acting vamp with superior obfuscate (presumably taking >: any action), it can use CotG as a modifier to give +1 stealth to >: another vamp, even one belonging to another Methuselah. >: If this is correct, it raises a few questions in my mind: >: 1. Does the recipient vampire have to be ready? (It would seem not) >Yes, the recipient should be ready. Why? Becasue you are stealthing an >action that the recipient is making. It would be pointless to stealth >a vampire that cna't do anything on this turn. The vampire needs to be untapped to take the action to be stealthed, but need not be "ready", which means being controlled yet out of torpor. There are a few actions possible in torpor. >: 3. Does it matter whether or not the acting vampire is tapped? (Again >: it would seem not) >I think it matters...ok, you've got atpaped vamp...he can't do >anything...what happens? He sits there twiddling his thumbs..but he's >really stealthy at it...utterly useless... Worse than that - since he's untapped, he can't take an action, so there is no action to modify. CotG isn't merely useless, it can't be played. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

It is perfectly fine to use superior Cloak the Gathering to assist a vampire taking one of the few actions allowed in torpor (such as rescuing oneself). Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

In <3j2gq0$b...@iii1.iii.net>, krae...@iii1.iii.net (Hallowed Visionary) writes: >No, to use the CotG you have to tap the vampire...once tapped it can't >play another one. Get another vamp with obfuscate to do it. > > ---Kith Um...Kith, where does it say that playing Action Modifiers taps the minion? Here is how the superior power of CotG works, Aleph attempts to bleed his Methuselah's prey. Tura Vaughn, controlled by said prey, attempts to block. Sylvester Simms, controlled by Aleph's Methuselah, uses CotG to give Aleph +1 Stealth. (I see no reason why this would tap Sylvester as he isn't taking an action, he's merely modifying one.) Tura, unable to increase her Intercept, fails to block and her Methuselah is bled. -- Vincent, Elder of Minneapolis

In article <3jffk8$l...@tribune.usask.ca>, Shane Hamish William Travis <sht...@duke.usask.ca> wrote: >: If you mean that you can use more than one CtG card per action, it is >: true with most other action modifiers, too. The exceptions are >: mentioned in the cards (Threats, Bonding, Conditioning). > >No, this is _not true of most cards: > >14. Summary of the Course of an Action >[...] >4. ... Players cannot play the same action modifier card more than once >per action. Note that there is a DTR somewhere that says that this phrase should read that *minions* cannot repeat action modifiers. The phrase in 7.2.2 is correct and this one is wrong. Players are perfectly free to use multiples of action modifiers provided that they can get multiple minions working in the same action. [ quoted text not captured ]

ma...@beta.hut.fi (Marko Puumalainen) writes: >> Note a key advantage to Cloak that works out in the above >>example: Since it is not played by the acting minion, but is instead >>played by other minions, it can be used more than once during the same action >If you mean that you can use more than one CtG card per action, it is >true with most other action modifiers, too. The exceptions are I was wrong. You can only use one AM of a kind per minion per action. Sorry to waste bandwidth with uncorrect info. ))marko -- Never try to be amusing and order something like a "pint of dishwater". Judging by the state of some of our larger brewers' beers, you just might get it. The Surrey Pub Guide

Marko Puumalainen (ma...@beta.hut.fi) wrote: : js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes: : > Note a key advantage to Cloak that works out in the above : >example: Since it is not played by the acting minion, but is instead : >played by other minions, it can be used more than once during the same : >action. : If you mean that you can use more than one CtG card per action, it is : true with most other action modifiers, too. The exceptions are : mentioned in the cards (Threats, Bonding, Conditioning). No, this is _not true of most cards: 14. Summary of the Course of an Action [...] 4. ... Players cannot play the same action modifier card more than once per action. This means that I cannot use three superior Voter Captivations to gain 6 blood avter a successful vote, I can't use two Srocn of Adonis to make everyone lose 2 pool if they vote against me, I can't use 4 Bonding to end up with a +4 Bleed at +4 stealth. The restrictions on Bonding/Conditioning/Threats FURTHER restrict this rule by saying that if you use one of these cards, not only cannot use another _of that same card_, but you cannot use another card _from that group_ either; without that card text there would be nothing to stop you from using all three to get (at most) a +6 bleed at +1 stealth. Just a _little_ abusive... :-) : I think the purpose of CtG is to give stealth to your acting vampire : that does not have enough stealth. This is done by a vampire : that has superior obfuscate. It all happens when it is your turn. I : don't have the card with me but didn't it say that the vampire playing : CtG is tapped? Action modifiers do not tap the minion playing them. The original poster had the right idea as to the strength of this card. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <marko.7...@snakemail.hut.fi>, Marko Puumalainen <ma...@beta.hut.fi> wrote: >If you mean that you can use the same card twice I think you're >wrong. Once you use a card you place it in your ash heap and cannot >use it again. Most definitely. >If you mean that you can use more than one CtG card per action, it is >true with most other action modifiers, too. The exceptions are >mentioned in the cards (Threats, Bonding, Conditioning). Most definitely not. From the Rules, section 7.2.2 "Minion Cards," paragraph on Action modifier cards: "The same action modifier card type cannot be used twice by a minion during the same action." The B/C/T says that if you use of of those types, you can't use others of those types, which is a further restriction to the above rule. >I think the purpose of CtG is to give stealth to your acting vampire >that does not have enough stealth. This is done by a vampire >that has superior obfuscate. It all happens when it is your turn. I >don't have the card with me but didn't it say that the vampire playing >CtG is tapped? Yes, it does give stealth to someone who doesn't have enough. Yes, it does happen during your turn. If you happen to have 2 minions other than the acting minion who have Sup. Obfs. then, they can each loan the acting minion a stealth. Oh, and the card says "does not tap the playing vampire." RTFC. [ quoted text not captured ]