2?s - One Old, One Bloodlines

Can deflection be used to redirect a bleed to yourself? (ie I need to cycle it out of my hand and it is down to 2 players, or I don't want to deflect to the other players for whatever reason.) Deflection Dominate 1 Blood inferior Only usable when you are being bled. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another Methuselah other than the one controlling the minion bleeding you. The acting minion is now attempting to bleed that Methuselah. superior As above, but do not tap this vampire. If you can deflect to yourself, does that mean you can now block the bleed if you previously declined to block? Does playing Deflection imply that you are declining to block? (ie If I play Deflection and my prey plays Direct Intervention can I now try to block?) Now for a Bloodlines question, which has to do with Shadow Court Satyr and Ashes to Ashes: Shadow Court Satyr (Changeling) Gangrel-Antitribu 3 Pool Changeling with 3 life. 1 strength, 1 bleed. When Shadow Court Satyr comes into play, you may put a combat card from your hand on him. Once during combat, Satyr may use the ability of that card as if that card had been played from your hand. If the card has a cost, he pays its cost in life to use its ability. If the card requires a Discipline, he may only use the basic ability of that card as a vampire with a capacity of 1. If the ability would give him blood, give him life instead. Ashes to Ashes Combat inferior fortitude Only usable by a vampire being burned; he or she is sent into torpor instead. inferior thanatosis Prevent all damage. This vampire untaps and goes to torpor (ending combat). superior thanatosis As inferior thanatosis above, and this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a vampire. Correct? Another Ashes to Ashes question: There must be damage to prevent before a vampire can play either thanatosis part, right? Thanks, ~Rehlow favorite card: masochism most used: force of will

>Can deflection be used to redirect a bleed to yourself? (ie I need to >cycle it out of my hand and it is down to 2 players, or I don't want >to deflect to the other players for whatever reason.) > No, you can't. That's why Deflections become completely useless when it's down to 2 players (can't even cycle them). >If you can deflect to yourself, does that mean you can now block the >bleed if you previously declined to block? Moot. But in general, after a bleed is redirected, it opens up a new round of blocking opportunities. >Does playing Deflection imply that you are declining to block? (ie If >I play Deflection and my prey plays Direct Intervention can I now try >to block?) No it doesn't imply that. If you played Deflection and haven't declined to block, you may then block if the Deflection is DI'ed. >I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring >him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all >damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a >vampire. Correct? I could have sworn that LSJ once said something about if an ally goes to torpor, it's burned instead. >Another Ashes to Ashes question: There must be damage to prevent >before a vampire can play either thanatosis part, right? Correct. You can't play damage prevention unless there's damage to prevent. Halcyan 2

"Rehlow" <ma...@rehlow.com> wrote in message news:30dcde5e.01120...@posting.google.com... > Can deflection be used to redirect a bleed to yourself? (ie I need to > cycle it out of my hand and it is down to 2 players, or I don't want > to deflect to the other players for whatever reason.) LSJ answered this way back in 1998. (Google rocks!) <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=deflection+yourself&group=rec.games.trading-c ards.jyhad> Yes, you can Deflection a bleed back to yourself. > If you can deflect to yourself, does that mean you can now block the > bleed if you previously declined to block? If the target of a directed action is reset, a new "choose blockers" opportunity results. [RTR 19970630] > Does playing Deflection imply that you are declining to block? (ie If > I play Deflection and my prey plays Direct Intervention can I now try > to block?) "Reaction Card" is defined in the rulebook as "A card played by a Methuselah's ready, untapped minion in response to an action taken by a minion controlled by another Methuselah." So it would seem to follow that, as long as you attempt to use a reaction card BEFORE "declining to block" ( 6.2.2[1] ), you have not yet ACTUALLY "declined to block". [snip Ashes To Ashes question] > Thanks, > ~Rehlow > favorite card: masochism > most used: force of will My sincere apologies for neglecting my subjects in such a poor manner. :) Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

"Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEcharter.net> wrote in message news:u0tg1nc...@corp.supernews.com... > "Rehlow" <ma...@rehlow.com> wrote in message > news:30dcde5e.01120...@posting.google.com... > > Can deflection be used to redirect a bleed to yourself? (ie I need to > > cycle it out of my hand and it is down to 2 players, or I don't want > > to deflect to the other players for whatever reason.) No. > LSJ answered this way back in 1998. (Google rocks!) > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=deflection+yourself&group=rec.games.trading-c > ards.jyhad> > Yes, you can Deflection a bleed back to yourself. No, you cannot. See the Rules Team Ruling from 23 June 1998. http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR6-23.htm "Deflection: New card text: "Only usable when a you are the target of a bleed. Choose another Methuselah. You cannot choose the acting minion's controller. The acting minion is now attempting to bleed the chosen Methuselah. The chosen Methuselah may attempt to block. Tap this reacting vampire. Superior: As above, but do not tap this vampire." # # That is, you cannot deflect to yourself." Current card text should also have answered it for you, even though it does not exactly match the text above. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Cardlist_D.html#Deflection "Choose another Methuselah" > > Does playing Deflection imply that you are declining to block? (ie If > > I play Deflection and my prey plays Direct Intervention can I now try > > to block?) No. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com -- Posted from att-98-60-253.atl.mediaone.net [24.98.60.253] via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:58860f7ac5bc371c24a...@mygate.mailgate.org... Sorry, previous post should have had two answers not one. > > > Does playing Deflection imply that you are declining to block? No. It may "imply" it, but it does not mean that you are declining to block. Only the decision (and subsequent announcement) determine whether or not you are declining to block. > > > (ie If I play Deflection and my prey plays Direct Intervention > > > can I now try to block?) If you have not already announced that you are not blocking, then Yes. If you previously stated that you were not blocking, then No. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <u0tg1nc...@corp.supernews.com>, Kevin M. <kjmergen@PLEAS ENOSPAMMEcharter.net> writes: >LSJ answered this way back in 1998. (Google rocks!) ><http://groups.google.com/groups?q=deflection+yourself&group=rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad> > >Yes, you can Deflection a bleed back to yourself. Not correct: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/migration.html Deflection cannot be used to redirect the bleed to yourself -- James Coupe When correctly viewed PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Everything is lewd EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 I could tell you things about Peter Pan 13D7E668C3695D623D5D And the Wizard of Oz, there's a dirty old man

Halcyan 2 wrote: > >Can deflection be used to redirect a bleed to yourself? (ie I need to > >cycle it out of my hand and it is down to 2 players, or I don't want > >to deflect to the other players for whatever reason.) > > No, you can't. That's why Deflections become completely useless when it's down > to 2 players (can't even cycle them). Correct. > >If you can deflect to yourself, does that mean you can now block the > >bleed if you previously declined to block? > > Moot. But in general, after a bleed is redirected, it opens up a new round of > blocking opportunities. Correct (for any change-the-target-of-the-action effect). > >Does playing Deflection imply that you are declining to block? (ie If > >I play Deflection and my prey plays Direct Intervention can I now try > >to block?) > > No it doesn't imply that. If you played Deflection and haven't declined to > block, you may then block if the Deflection is DI'ed. Correct. > >I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring > >him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all > >damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a > >vampire. Correct? > > I could have sworn that LSJ once said something about if an ally goes to > torpor, it's burned instead. Nah. He goes to torpor. Allies are not prohibited from entering torpor, they just generally find it difficult to do, since most effects that send things to torpor only work on vampires. And there he stays, unless some future effect is created that allows an ally to leave torpor. [LSJ 28-JAN-2000] > >Another Ashes to Ashes question: There must be damage to prevent > >before a vampire can play either thanatosis part, right? > > Correct. You can't play damage prevention unless there's damage to prevent. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>> >I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring >> >him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all >> >damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a >> >vampire. Correct? >> >> I could have sworn that LSJ once said something about if an ally goes to >> torpor, it's burned instead. > >Nah. He goes to torpor. Allies are not prohibited from entering torpor, >they just generally find it difficult to do, since most effects that send >things to torpor only work on vampires. > >And there he stays, unless some future effect is created that allows an >ally to leave torpor. [LSJ 28-JAN-2000] > Damn, there goes one of the coolest combos... I guess I'll have to work on the Shadow Court Satyr-Bond with the mountain-Sport Bike-Mr Wintrop-Vagabond Mystic-Panacea/Renewd Vigor combo...If only I could reduce the cost of the Bond with the mountain with one, and I could block te rest of my grapple-less <2 stealth actions my prey or predator does... /Henrik, feeling cheesy..

"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:58860f7ac5bc371c24a...@mygate.mailgate.org... > "Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEcharter.net> wrote in message > news:u0tg1nc...@corp.supernews.com... > > > "Rehlow" <ma...@rehlow.com> wrote in message > > news:30dcde5e.01120...@posting.google.com... > > > Can deflection be used to redirect a bleed to yourself? (ie I need to > > > cycle it out of my hand and it is down to 2 players, or I don't want > > > to deflect to the other players for whatever reason.) > > No. > > > LSJ answered this way back in 1998. (Google rocks!) > > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=deflection+yourself&group=rec.games.trading-c > > ards.jyhad> > > > Yes, you can Deflection a bleed back to yourself. > > No, you cannot. > See the Rules Team Ruling from 23 June 1998. > > http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR6-23.htm Guess I didn't search hard enough. The LSJ link above comes 2 months before the RTR you mention. > "Deflection: > New card text: > "Only usable when a you are the target of a bleed. Choose another Methuselah. > You cannot choose the acting minion's controller. The acting minion is now > attempting to bleed the chosen Methuselah. The chosen Methuselah may attempt > to block. Tap this reacting vampire. > Superior: As above, but do not tap this vampire." > # > # That is, you cannot deflect to yourself." > > > Current card text should also have answered it for you, even though it does not > exactly match the text above. > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Cardlist_D.html#Deflection > > "Choose another Methuselah" ...like reading the current card text. Duh. Well, that was a good laugh! :) [Shut up, Matt!] > Carpe noctem. > > Lasombra > > http://www.TheLasombra.com [ quoted text not captured ]

> > >I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring > > >him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all > > >damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a > > >vampire. Correct? > > > > I could have sworn that LSJ once said something about if an ally goes to > > torpor, it's burned instead. > > Nah. He goes to torpor. Allies are not prohibited from entering torpor, > they just generally find it difficult to do, since most effects that send > things to torpor only work on vampires. Now I“m a little confused (nothing unusual there). I thought SCS ignored all effect that happens to a vampire after he plays "his" card. I“ve discussed this with you before and the closest thing we got to an answer was (on Yahoo V:tES club, msg 1323) was: > So just to confirm: if the SCS played a Breath of the Dragon at > close range, does he take the damage? Since he's not a vampire, > would the "this vampire also takes the damage" affect him or is it > ignored? Ignored, since he's not treated as a vampire when the strike resolves (only when he plays the card). The "standard" illustration of this is Burst of Sunlight on the SCS. -- LSJ He is treted like vampire only when he plays the card, but not after that. Why is he going into torpor from AtA (and mummify?) when he doesn“t take damage from BotD and BoS?

agzocgud wrote: > > > > >I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring > > > >him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all > > > >damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a > > > >vampire. Correct? > > > > > > I could have sworn that LSJ once said something about if an ally goes to > > > torpor, it's burned instead. > > > > Nah. He goes to torpor. Allies are not prohibited from entering torpor, > > they just generally find it difficult to do, since most effects that send > > things to torpor only work on vampires. > > Now I´m a little confused (nothing unusual there). I thought SCS > ignored all effect that happens to a vampire after he plays "his" > card. Sure. But the "go to torpor" effect of Ashes to Ashes occurs when the card is played. [ quoted text not captured ]

Ashes to Ashes Combat inferior fortitude Only usable by a vampire being burned; he or she is sent into torpor instead. inferior thanatosis Prevent all damage. This vampire untaps and goes to torpor (ending combat). superior thanatosis As inferior thanatosis above, and this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. <snip> I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a vampire. Correct? <snip> According to the wording on the card vampires are sent into torpor... So to my understanding of the "somewhat" fragile rules is that you can't put AtA on an SCS because it doesn't satisfy the cardtext. (Like Kiss of Ra/Red Herring). Or have I missed an errata? I just wonder how you (LSJ and others) can interpret it as the ally is put in torpor..?

_Fire_ wrote: > <snip> > I choose inferior thanatosis for Shadow Court Satyr (SCS) when I bring > him in play. When SCS plays Ashes to Ashes in combat "Prevent all > damage" works and the rest of the text is ignored because he is not a > vampire. Correct? > <snip> > > According to the wording on the card vampires are sent into torpor... > So to my understanding of the "somewhat" fragile rules is that you > can't put AtA on an SCS because it doesn't satisfy the cardtext. (Like > Kiss of Ra/Red Herring). Or have I missed an errata? I just wonder how > you (LSJ and others) can interpret it as the ally is put in torpor..? SCS goes to torpor just fine. [ quoted text not captured ]