rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

DESIGN TEAM RULINGS: 11/28/94

5 messages from 2 participants · 29 November 1994 – 04 December 1994
original thread on Google Groups

Tom Wylie

1) Is using a retainer at the appropriate time mandatory? You cannot usually choose to not use a retainer. For example, if a retainer gives a vampire +1 Hand damage, then you cannot choose to not get that bonus. 2) Vampires A and B are in combat. Vampire A chooses strike, and declares that he's using weapon X. Vampire B chooses strike, and uses special abilities to do a First Strike: Steal Weapon on weapon X. According to the rules, B can't strike with X until the following round. But what happens to A's strike? A's strike is completely lost; A gets no strike this phase. 3) Charming Lobby and Cryptic Rider: the next vote "passes automatically." Does this mean that no votes may be cast, or does it mean that votes are cast as normal but the vote passes regardless of the number of votes against? (I.e., can players burn vote cards, play Bribes, etc. on the second vote?) You cannot burn cards or votes during the second vote. 4) Fame. The 9/23/94 rulings stated "Multiple Fames are not cumulative, just like for Army of Rats." Reversal: Multiple Fames are cumulative on the same vampire. They are also cumulative if multiple famous vampires are in torpor. 5) If the vampire selected for Betrayer changes controllers, is the new controller now the one taking the pool loss? Whoever controls the vampire takes the pool loss. 6) Will putting the vampire into contention shut down the Betrayer for the moment as the contended vampire is not being controlled by anyone? This is correct. 7) Does combat tap or just acting or blocking? Being in combat does not tap a minion. Acting or blocking does tap the minion. 8) If a vampire is sent to torpor by aggravated damage but rescued by Minor Boon, does the combat continue or has it already ended? Combat can continue as normal. 9) Can the blood gained from diablerie fill the vampire to its full new capacity, or only to its pre-diablerie capacity? You can only fill to the pre-diablerie capacity. 10) Vampires A and B are in combat. Vampire A has unique weapon X, and declares a strike with it. Vampire B then uses Disguised Weapon with superior Obfuscate to bring out the same unique weapon, making the weapons contested. B can't declare a strike with weapon X, since it's gone immediately, but what happens to A's strike? A's strike is completely lost; A gets no strike this phase. 11) Can Telepathic Counter ("Reduce a bleed against you by 1. Note that bleeds ending up at 0, or less, are not considered successful.") be played just like any other reaction -- i.e. both before and after attempting to block? It can be played either before or after the block. 12) If a Malkavian finds itself untapped and out of blood at the end of a turn, is it required to take advantage of the Madness Network in order to hunt? No. It is not required to take that action, but if it chooses to act, the only act that it can take is to hunt. 13) Does "Only usable when minion is blocked" mean "once it's been established that the action will be blocked, but before combat begins"? Yes. 14) I assume multiple Traps would be cumulative in the sense that multiple presses to end would be required during a round continued by the Traps? But they would not cause the combat to drag on for six, nine, etc. rounds for free. This is correct. It only makes multiple presses. 15) Suppose I take control of a Malkavian via the Dementia. Next untap, I have to give it back, but I will also be losing enough pool to be ousted (Anarch Revolts, contention, whatever). Can I put off the return of the Malkavian long enough to be ousted, in which case it is burned and never returned, or do I have to give back the Malkavian as soon as it's untapped? You will have to give the Malkavian back first. You lose control of it at the very beginning of your untap phase. 16) Suppose a vampire starts the minion phase empty and untapped, so hunts; this action is blocked and undone with Obedience. Is the vampire free to take another action that turn, or will it have to wait until the next turn to try hunting again? It will have to wait until it's next turn. The only action that a vampire with no blood can take is to hunt. 17) What happens if the vampire pulled off the crypt is neither younger nor older than the vampire who had the Soul Gem? Errata: Treat the same age as being the same as if the vampire were older. It does not come into play at full capacity.

Joe Cochran

In article <3bdr0g$9...@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aa...@hal.COM> wrote: >4) Fame. The 9/23/94 rulings stated "Multiple Fames are not cumulative, > just like for Army of Rats." > > Reversal: Multiple Fames are cumulative on the same vampire. >They are also cumulative if multiple famous vampires are in torpor. > Here's the question of the day for the rules team: [Q]: So Army of Rats is not cumulative, and Fame is. What about all the other cards that cause events (such as Anarch Revolt, The First Tradition, Cultivated Blood Shortage, Betrayer, Kindred Society Games, Murder of Crows, Wolf Companion, Rumours of Gehenna, Elder Kindred Network, Tragic Love Affair, Weather Control, Bribes (multiples are possible w/ Mask of 1,000 Faces), Camarilla Exemplary, etc.)? Which ones are cumulative and which ones aren't? Tom, if you could forward this to the Rules Team, I'd be eternally grateful. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Tom Wylie

Joe Cochran <js...@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >[Q]: So Army of Rats is not cumulative, and Fame is. What about all >the other cards that cause events (such as Anarch Revolt, The First >Tradition, Cultivated Blood Shortage, Betrayer, Kindred Society Games, >Murder of Crows, Wolf Companion, Rumours of Gehenna, Elder Kindred >Network, Tragic Love Affair, Weather Control, Bribes (multiples are >possible w/ Mask of 1,000 Faces), Camarilla Exemplary, etc.)? Which >ones are cumulative and which ones aren't? Of all of those, only Army of Rats has "not cumulative" errata, and only because it was *supposed* to say "not cumulative", but that somehow got dropped. Rumors of Gehenna will be redundant with Anson or a pre-existing Rumors, since it just says "you get two master actions", not "you get another master action". All of the others are cumulative (unless I missed one which turns out to be redundant). There is not a general rule against effects being cumulative; there was an error in the case of Army of Rats. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Joe Cochran

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a moment here. Yes, Rumors just says that you get two master actions per turn. But Anarch Revolt just says that you lose 1 pool per untap, and Cultivated Shortage just says that each Ventrue loses 1 blood per untap. None of the ones I listed above say "extra" or "+X" or "per <card>". So given that Rumors is not cumulative, how can you say that Anarch Revolt is cumulative, since a second one would just be redundant by the wording on the card? I just don't see any reason for the differences in treatments between the cards. We know that the Army has the errata, and that Fame does not, but the wording on many of the cards is the same as Fame and Army. So, the rules team knows the difference. I want to know the difference, too. Which are redundant and which are culumative? I'll give you that the retainers are cumulative (I just started throwing everything I could think of in there), but if Rumors is redundant, I want clarification on the political actions. But I picked all of the Master cards that are worded such that it could be taken as redundant, and the reaction card that could be taken as redundant, and the combat card that could be taken as redundant. I read them with an eye to that before I put them on the list. They can be taken either way. That's why I want to hear which cards should be taken as redundant and which cards should be taken as cumulative. And the only people who can really answer that are the Rules Team, or the people who wrote the cards. [ quoted text not captured ]

Tom Wylie

Joe Cochran <js...@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a moment here. Yes, Rumors >just says that you get two master actions per turn. But Anarch Revolt >just says that you lose 1 pool per untap, and Cultivated Shortage just >says that each Ventrue loses 1 blood per untap. None of the ones I >listed above say "extra" or "+X" or "per <card>". So given that Rumors >is not cumulative, how can you say that Anarch Revolt is cumulative, >since a second one would just be redundant by the wording on the card? Think of them as upkeep effects from Magic. Black Vise doesn't say you take "extra" damage, it just says you take damage, yet Vises are cumulative. The difference here is that there's a rule saying you get master actions, but there is no rule saying "You lose 0 pool each untap" or anything like that. Rumors of Gehenna is changing an existing rule, to say you get two master actions instead of one; Anarch Revolt just does something during your untap, namely make you lose a pool. >...but if Rumors is redundant, I want >clarification on the political actions... Rumors is the only card you mentioned which is really replacing a rule, rather than simply saying "this happens at this time", or placing a condition on something else happening. Hence it's the only one which is redundant. Well, and Army of Rats is redundant, but only because of errata. [ quoted text not captured ]