Who's that girl?

I was shuffling through my grp 4/5 Toreadors yesterday (and swearing about all the Ken Meyer Jnr artwork) when I realised that the foxy lass on the Toreador starter box wasn't among the group. Did she not get printed or was I extraordinarily unlucky and not pull her? (2 boxes, 2 starters) Someone may have asked already, but a search proved fruitless. And does anyone else think she looks like Elisabeth Röhm? (Angel, Law and Order) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0737533/ jase

On Feb 8, 8:08 pm, jasonsv...@iinet.net.au wrote: > Did she not get printed or was I extraordinarily unlucky and not pull > her? (2 boxes, 2 starters) Someone may have asked already, but a > search proved fruitless. I'm pretty sure she was one of the cards that accidentally didn't get printed. Or maybe purposefully didn't get printed. -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] I'll happily take a box of Ken Meyer Jnr vampires to a box of Christopher "Colourise & Blur" Shy. But if the "Gods of Card Art Selection" are listening, PLEASE choose something that is distinctive and try out some "rogue artists" or some "newcomers". I am not intending to turn this thread into an extended thread on "whose art sucks", I can't help you with the "Where is that vampire?" search though.

> I'm pretty sure she was one of the cards that accidentally didn't get > printed. Or maybe purposefully didn't get printed. Maybe Elisabeth Röhm threatened to sue, ala Camiile Devereaux. I swear Ms Nameles Toreador and Ms Rohm are dead ringers. :) But cheers for that. I thought the odds of me failing to pull a vamp out of two boxes were pretty long, especially since the other "cover vamps" were fixed in the starters. (btw, Gem Ghastly, va-va-voooom)

> I'll happily take a box of Ken Meyer Jnr vampires to a box of > Christopher "Colourise & Blur" Shy. Yeah, it's a very personal thing. I'd take Shy over Ken Meyer anyday. But that's just me. Everyone is going to have their hated artists. Ken Meyer and Becky Jollensten are mine. Unfortunately, it seems the majority of g4/5 toris were butchered by this pair, so I'm stuck with the AAA crowd for a while :P

jason...@iinet.net.au wrote: >> I'll happily take a box of Ken Meyer Jnr vampires to a box of >> Christopher "Colourise & Blur" Shy. > >Yeah, it's a very personal thing. I'd take Shy over Ken Meyer anyday. >But that's just me. I quite like a lot of Shy art. It became a bit of a problem when he was basically doing whole clans for large sets because his style is quite distinctive/similar. Now, it kinda makes real world sense that a couple of closely related Giovanni will look similar, but from an identification point of view in a card game, that sucks a bit. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On Feb 9, 9:00 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] The ex-Prince of Pretoria in Pretoria used to play decks built solely on the crypt choice of "OOOooohhh Shiny! Chris Shy shiny!" They worked surprisingly well....

Christopher Shy works do have something over some of the KoT Vampires, and that's that they look suitably monstrous. I have wondered why the KoT Vampires generally look so much like people, rather than Vampires. Especially when some of the individuals are suitably f**ked up, from canon. Any Vampire of suitable capacity, even one with (relatively) decent Humanity should still find it fairly difficult to pass themselves off as 'normal'. Or maybe I'm being too much of an RPG nerd, and caring about these things. :)

[ quoted text not captured ] I guess pick one and find one of the RPG canon image descriptions for the vampire and compare.

[ quoted text not captured ] I think I will invoke my mild "art-nerd" and also my mild "computer- nerd" simultaneously for this... [warning: mild flaming ahead] Those Christopher Shy images better have cost about $50... because you could get very similar results with a free program called GIMP, a digital camera and your aunty (RE: The Blount Sisters) or Uncle (Jaroslav Pascek). You could almost set up a program script to take a photo of anyone, blur out the background, colour it (insert random colour here) and blur it all... TADA!!! Christopher Shy artwork!!! There are a lot of very capable artists out there, a quick trawl through Epilogue.net tends to turn up a bunch of them ranging in ages from 15 to 50... In the end, the Artwork people are chosing artwork based on their taste and conceptualisation of what a "vampire" should look like. I suspect they think more of the "Interview with a Vampire", "Twilight", etc Vampires who are just pasty-white normal people with a strange dietary requirement. People into the RPGs tend to think of Vampires as "savage nutters with big teeth, claws, anorexia and at one point being attacked with a letter opener/icepick". I'm happy for almost anything along that spectrum, and even more grotesque. But I'd just like it if the quality of the art was good. Not so fussed about the style. (Oh and no more Leopard Print Curtains... I'm looking at you Ira Rivers!!)

> You could almost set up a program script to take a > photo of anyone, blur out the background, colour it (insert random > colour here) and blur it all... TADA!!! Christopher Shy artwork!!! Personal feelings aside (I like Shy's stuff) I'm not sure why he cops such a tea-bagging for this. There are several other VTES artists who do similar things. At least Shy's guys look sorta scary. Becky Jollensten's Ventrue Anti from third Ed were literally as fast and dirty as you're describing - a digital shot with a single photoshop filter applied. 5 minutes work, no hyperbole at all. Yet Shy seems to be the target of an inordinate amount of flames. > People into the RPGs tend to think of Vampires > as "savage nutters with big teeth, claws, anorexia and at one point > being attacked with a letter opener/icepick". Camarilla vampires tend to have mid/high Humanity. They can pass for people without too many problems. Granted, they should look a little "off", but the big teeth/claws thing doesn't fit the Cam at all. Sabbat, sure. But the Camarilla aren't that far off the Interview/ Twilight school of thought - especially the Toreador. jase

On Feb 9, 5:29 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Those Christopher Shy images better have cost about $50... because you > could get very similar results with a free program called GIMP, a > digital camera and your aunty (RE: The Blount Sisters) or Uncle > (Jaroslav Pascek). You could almost set up a program script to take a > photo of anyone, blur out the background, colour it (insert random > colour here) and blur it all... TADA!!! Christopher Shy artwork!!! Yeah, see, here is the thing. Christopher Shy isn't, I'm pretty sure, working from photographs. Those are painted. They are probably post paint-digital manipulations to get the blurs and haze, but they start out, I'm pretty sure, as paintings. So yeah, you could take a picture of your aunt and run her through GIMP, but you aren't going to anything remotely close to what he is doing. As he isn't starting with a picture of you aunt. He is starting with a painting. -Peter

Also remember: sometimes artists are given only five minutes to deadline to do a piece, if some other artist contracted for a piece fails to deliver for whatever reason. May make for bad art, and you (consumers) aren't obliged not to complain about it. But remember that sometimes it isn't solely the fault of the artist whose name winds up on the card credit.

On Feb 9, 4:59 pm, jasonsv...@iinet.net.au wrote: > > You could almost set up a program script to take a > > photo of anyone, blur out the background, colour it (insert random > > colour here) and blur it all... TADA!!! Christopher Shy artwork!!! > > Personal feelings aside (I like Shy's stuff) I'm not sure why he cops > such a tea-bagging for this. There are several other VTES artists who > do similar things. At least Shy's guys look sorta scary. Becky > Jollensten's Ventrue Anti from third Ed were literally as fast and > dirty as you're describing - a digital shot with a single photoshop > filter applied. 5 minutes work, no hyperbole at all. Yet Shy seems to > be the target of an inordinate amount of flames. Mariel St. John looks definitely painted to me. Same with all of Jollensten's art. Most likely using photographic reference, but painted nonetheless. Not a five minute job. now if you're referring to Katie McCaskill, who did art for Kestrele Hayes and etc., that's a tough one. it could be a photoshop filter, or she might be working digitally off of a photo, and following the details too closely that it ends up looking similar to a filter. I personally like the drugged-up look of Saul Meira. and based on Leaf "Potter116" Pankowski, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. I'd need higher resolution versions to tell for sure, though. and I strongly, strongly doubt that Christopher Shy uses a program script to mass-produce vampire art. he's guilty of most of them having a lack of distinction perhaps. how come no one ever calls out Lawrence Snelly for taking multiple pictures of the same guy (G2 Blood Brothers) and giving them different colorings and overlaying them in the same portrait (Mukhtar Bey)? and as for the "pictures of your aunt and uncle" thing, there's Eric Deschamps, who did 3rd edition pictures for Randel, the Coward, and Ulrike Rothbart... no one would deny they're real paintings, but they're the most boring vampires I've seen in the whole game!

On Feb 9, 5:59 pm, jasonsv...@iinet.net.au wrote: > Becky > Jollensten's Ventrue Anti from third Ed were literally as fast and > dirty as you're describing - a digital shot with a single photoshop > filter applied. 5 minutes work, no hyperbole at all. Yes; but as noted, it was completely the result of "Ahhgh! Someone failed to meet deadline! The cards need to get printed now! Someone make something to fill the hole in 5 minutes!" Which, all things being equal, could have resulted in something much worse... -Peter

> May make for bad art, and you (consumers) aren't obliged not to complain about > it. But remember that sometimes it isn't solely the fault of the artist whose > name winds up on the card credit. Yeah I presume Becky's !Ventrue from 3rd ed fell into this category. But I hate her new impressionist-ish Toreador too. That said, art is very subjective, and I'm sure some people liked it. On the whole I thought the art in KoT was superb. Efrem Palacios is a real find - I hope you guys hang onto him for a long time.

> Mariel St. John looks definitely painted to me. Same with all of > Jollensten's art. Most likely using photographic reference, but > painted nonetheless. Not a five minute job. Mmmmmyeah, I disagree. Looks like a filter job to me. If you compare, say Epikasta to Mariel, there's a real contrast in style. Maybe that's just a shift from the artist, but LSJ's "sometimes artists are given only five minutes to deadline" tends to lend credence to my suspicion. > now if you're referring to Katie McCaskill, who did art for Kestrele > Hayes and etc., that's a tough one. Filter job for sure imo. Ditto with Leaf. > how come no one ever calls out Lawrence Snelly for taking multiple > pictures of the same guy (G2 Blood Brothers) Well, in canon, Blood Brothers are flesh sculpted to look identical. So this makes perfect sense. :) > Ulrike Rothbart... no one would deny they're real paintings, but > they're the most boring vampires I've seen in the whole game! But she's got a sun hat on! DELICIOUS IRONY! ;) jase

[ quoted text not captured ] Whose paintings do you think he starts with? Not his own, surely. Or does he do one painting and manipulate it to create multiple images?

On Feb 9, 8:16 pm, jwjbwhe...@gmail.com wrote: > Whose paintings do you think he starts with? Not his own, surely. Or > does he do one painting and manipulate it to create multiple images? I'm confused--is this a legitimate question or is this snark? Why would he not start with his own paintings? My understanding of Shy's work (which is based on nothing other than looking at his illustrations on VTES cards and on a Graphic Novel he did a few years back) is that he paints an illustration, and then manipulates it digitally for effects. -Peter

On Feb 9, 7:08 pm, jasonsv...@iinet.net.au wrote: > Mmmmmyeah, I disagree. Looks like a filter job to me. If you compare, > say Epikasta to Mariel, there's a real contrast in style. Maybe that's > just a shift from the artist, but LSJ's "sometimes artists are given > only five minutes to deadline" tends to lend credence to my suspicion. If we are talking about the same picture (a !Ventrue young woman with blond hair and glasses), there is no suspicion to be had--the illustration was done in about 5 minutes (give or take) in photoshop 'cause there was an emergency hole in the card art and they needed it filled in minutes. She did the best she could under the circumstances. And all things being equal, that's fine. -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Over a dozen of the KoT vampires are canonically supposed to look fairly traditionally non-monstery, since their source is a supplement that was written for Mind's Eye Theater and intended to be actively portrayed by (presumably non-monstery) players in various LARPs around the world. -John Flournoy

<jason...@iinet.net.au> wrote: > Yet Shy seems to be the target of an inordinate amount of flames. The Shy Hate goes back to his first VTES work, in Sabbat War, where he did total shit portraits like Cicatriz, Evangeline, Caliban, Idalia, and the worst (yes, worst) VTES art of all time, The Thumb Moncada. Yes, he is worse than anything Becky has ever done. Yes, he is worse than Snelly's few bad portraits. And the fact that you can tell Shy's artwork from more than a mile away when you're looking through a Barrett .50cal doesn't help this be forgotten. He might never live it down. :( I mean, Moncada is a picture of someone's fucking finger! It is total and utter after-I-have-eaten-crawfish-pizza-and-cheap-beer-with-Norm shit[0]. Moncada also has possibly the best VTES cliche ever. Whenever someone asks you what his text is, you read it and then say "It's a rule of Thumb."[1] hehee! =) Anyway, he will never live that garbage down, even if -- and I agree with you -- he has later portraits which are attractive. He wouldn't sell Gabrin to me, for example, damn him[2]. :) [0] This has never happened before, but I have heard rumors about Norm. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thumb [2] Christopher Shy is part of an artist "house" and they don't sell *anything*. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Las Vegas NAQ 2009! http://members.cox.net/vtesinlv/

On Feb 9, 9:08 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > The Shy Hate goes back to his first VTES work, in Sabbat War, where he did > total shit portraits like Cicatriz, Evangeline, Caliban, Idalia, and the > worst (yes, worst) VTES art of all time, The Thumb Moncada. While I would *never* argue about Moncada (which is hoooorrrrrrible), I like Cicatriz and Evangeline. Heck, and even Idalia. And Caliban strikes me as totally reasonable, if a bit utilitarian. But yeah. Moncada? *I* can't even defend that one. -Peter

> Over a dozen of the KoT vampires are canonically supposed to look > fairly traditionally non-monstery, since their source is a supplement > that was written for Mind's Eye Theater and intended to be actively > portrayed by (presumably non-monstery) players in various LARPs around > the world. I actually appreciated the care that the artists took (in some cases) to match the character descriptions from TT source. Petrodon, for example, had an almost incapacitating hang up about how damn ugly he was, and was never, never, never seen without Mask of 1000 Faces up. So it makes sense that he looks like a semi-handsome, slick looking guy to us mere mortals (who don't have enough Auspex to pierce his Obfuscate :) )

> But yeah. Moncada? *I* can't even defend that one. Well if memory serves, in TT source Moncada was an enormously fat bugger. And yeah, he does look a bit like a thumb with a face drawn on, but he also looks like a fat b*stard too, so I can pay it. Shy has done some average stuff to be sure. But on the whole I find his standard to be pretty high, and I think he's done some great vamps over the years too. Even his early SW stuff was pretty solid imo, and his new work is really quite good. The hate he illicits just seems a little disproportional :( imo, Moncada looks like the Mona Lisa compared to Afifa the Herald. That poor lass looks like she got drawn by someone's 10 year old niece. Drunk. And Blindfolded. jase

[ quoted text not captured ] Moncada has the even less appealing nickname in Sydney... Mr Potato- head. I understand the concept of artistic style (like you can pick a Picasso, a Monet and a Dali all next to each other) but most of those people with a "style" also have some significant variation amongst artwork (again look at Picasso, Dali and most of the famous artists). The fact that you can squint and mix up Edith Blount, Caliban and "Mr Potato-head" Moncada (without the clan-borders) is not a credit to Christopher Shy. One of the few redeeming moments of Christopher Shy is Agaitas. Max Shade Fellwalker has done a fair few cards (Annabelle Triabelle, Clan Impersonation, Antonio Delgado) and they have a style about them, but are distinct artworks. I'm sure many people may have issues with Annabelle Triabelle, but it's not the same art as Antonio Delgado. Sure, there are similarities with Gracis Nostinus and Creamy Jade not going to discount that. Sure Ken Meyer Jnr may need to pay royalties to Alyson Hannigan for Carna, but Carna and Carmine Giovanni are both Ken's and very distinct. Laurence Snelly - possibly not brilliant, possibly not awesome... however line up J Oswald "Ozzy" Hyde-White, Adonai and Alexandra. All Snelly, all distinct.

> I understand the concept of artistic style (like you can pick a > Picasso, a Monet and a Dali all next to each other) but most of those > people with a "style" also have some significant variation amongst > artwork (again look at Picasso, Dali and most of the famous artists). Well, Picasso and Dali are surrealists, so working in a lot of different mediums and a lot of different styles was kind of the point - they were attempting to deconstruct the very notion of what art was. But many artists often didn't vary their style or their mediums, they just work on honing their skills in that chosen medium. Just because Shy uses the same technique/medium on his stuff shouldn't mark him as a bad artist. He's just an artist who works in a single medium. Just because Snelley tries his hand at water colours as well as photo manipulation, doesn't make him a better artist than Shy. Bad is still bad no matter how many styles you have (and with art, as always in the eye of the beholder) All that said, I think there's still a great deal of variation in Shy's pieces, despite the common medium. Compare Gisella to Beatrice - are they done in the same technique? Yep. If you squint do they look identical? Nope, not imo. jase

On Feb 9, 4:59 pm, jasonsv...@iinet.net.au wrote: > > You could almost set up a program script to take a > > photo of anyone, blur out the background, colour it (insert random > > colour here) and blur it all... TADA!!! Christopher Shy artwork!!! > > Personal feelings aside (I like Shy's stuff) I'm not sure why he cops > such a tea-bagging for this. There are several other VTES artists who > do similar things. At least Shy's guys look sorta scary. Becky > Jollensten's Ventrue Anti from third Ed were literally as fast and > dirty as you're describing - a digital shot with a single photoshop > filter applied. 5 minutes work, no hyperbole at all. Yet Shy seems to > be the target of an inordinate amount of flames. > I've got a lot of comments for this thread, and I'm not going to respond to each post individually, and I am too lazy to quote them all here, so let me take this one as a jumping-off point. 1) I totally like Chris Shy's artwork. I find Melisande to be awesome, and the Kiasyd in generally work really well with his style of art. I can't deny that a lot of the vamps look like "just another blurry picture of a guy", and usually when the argument about Shy's artwork comes up, that's where I tend to shut up, because it's a tough point to argue against. Take a look at Gillespi Giovanni/Kervos the Lieutenant, and Andre Giovanni/Thomas Steed. Just a little *too* similar... =) 2) You mentioned Becky Jollenstein's Ventru Anti from 3rd edition, but I believe she only did *one*. And it's not that terrible. Mariel St. John at least looks like a really good job of using the Photoshop brush strokes tool, or else a pretty good painting. 3) I totally agree that Randel the Coward and Ulrike Rothbart are probably the world's most boring vampires. Along with Nichodemus (my deformity is arthritis!). 4) For some reason, I really like Becky Cloonan's art, even though everybody else hates it. For the kind of card it is used on (like Repulsion and Renewed Vigor), the anime-style seems totally appropiate. I'd like to see more of that kind of art in V:TES... without completely removing the angst-filled "garh... I'm a VAMPIRE" kind of goth stuff as well, of course. 5) I miss Drew Tucker. Correct me if I've just missed it, but I don't think we've seen much Drew Tucker art since, like, Dark Sovereigns... Blurry watercolors, but I like it. Mike Ooi was playing a mostly Drew Tucker-themed deck the other day. Not sure it was on purpose, it just seems that the Lucian celeritous out-of-turn-acting wall deck uses a lot of Tucker. 6) Also Quinton Hoover. 7) Lawrence Snelly is one guy that needs to be banned from Photoshop. I feel like he's done some *good* artwork for V:TES and is a very good artist when he does actually artistic things, but I don't remember what any of those cards are, because mostly when I think of Snelly, I think of things like Mukhtar Bey and Salinger. Terrible, just terrible. 8) Douglas Shuler and Ken Meyer Jr. bore me. There, I said it. Lots of people really like them, but I just can't seem to appreciate their art. Boring. Super boring. 9) Moncada is not just a picture of some guy's thumb, it's a *shitty* picture of some guys thumb. Gah! 10) We need more art by Rik Martin, the conceptual genius behind True Love's Face. Yowza! (his Helena ADV is pretty good too, though not on the same level of boobage, obviously) And no, Gabrielle di Righetti doesn't count. It's just slapstick - all boob, no love. 1 point of failure for Matt Smith (you gain 1 point back for Mary Anne Blair, though). 11) I'm not a big fan of Marian Churchland, who brought us Honest Abe, Gracetius and Troius. Cartoony and out-of-proportion without the charm of Becky Cloonan. (Though Adana de Sforza is pretty hot, although that's more because of her special, but I dig the leather gloves)

On Feb 9, 10:21 am, Shockwave <d_knowles...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Christopher Shy works do have something over some of the KoT Vampires, > and that's that they look suitably monstrous. Well, if you call "bland" monstrous. But I suppose that being an unnaturally bland monster is still better than sparkling. Brent Ross

Peter D Bakija wrote: > "... Someone > make something to fill the hole in 5 minutes!" that's what she said! -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

On Feb 10, 6:30 am, Salem <kella...@hotmail.com> wrote: > that's what she said! Well played sir. Well played. -Peter

On Feb 9, 10:52 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > I understand the concept of artistic style (like you can pick a > Picasso, a Monet and a Dali all next to each other) but most of those > people with a "style" also have some significant variation amongst > artwork (again look at Picasso, Dali and most of the famous artists). Not when you look at a pile of art from Artist X from a short period of time. If you line up a selection of, say, Van Gogh from a given time span, they are all going to look very similar ("Man! That Van Gogh! All he paints are freaking wavy pictures of boots! What a tool!"). As that is how people tend to work. If we look at Christopher Shy's work in 50 years, I'm sure we'll see just as many themes and distinctions. -Peter

Kevin M. wrote: > <jason...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >> Yet Shy seems to be the target of an inordinate amount of flames. > > The Shy Hate goes back to his first VTES work, in Sabbat War I agree that Moncada is terrible. However, I remember when Mage 2nd edition came out, and had lots of Shy work in it (more than just portraits), and I was blown away. This was before everyone was doing photoshop art. So his art was fresh and really cool. For portraits however, his full range doesn't begin to shine really. Here is his website: http://www.studioronin.com/main.htm But this website displays his art better, or at least more accessibly. http://www.tendreams.org/shy.htm (NSFW probably) I asked him once about original art, and he told me that since most of it was computer generated, he wasn't going to sell me his hard drive... best - chris

On Feb 10, 3:50 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > I've got a lot of comments for this thread, and I'm not going to > respond to each post individually, and I am too lazy to quote them all > here, so let me take this one as a jumping-off point. 1) Yeah, Melisande is another great one. Not saying that some of his stuff isn't "samey", but he did do an extraordinarily large number of vampires over a relatively short period of time. 2) I hate "lazy" pieces. To me, Mariel looks like she was bashed out in five minutes with a single filter - which it turns out she was. I realise there were time constraints on the piece, but that doesn't stop it from sucking, imo. 3) No love for Ulrike's ironic sunhat :( 4) I like Becky too, for some reason. I think it'd get problematic if she did a lot of work for VTES, but the occasional piece works just fine. 5) Yep, Drew was good. Victoria was super cool. 6) Love Quinton Hoover's stuff. Really distinctive. Probably more suited to the M Game That Shall Not be Named overall, but he did some great stuff for VTES. 7) Funny, I really quite like some of Snelly's old photoshop. Nehsi and Sarasine from FN are amongst my favourite Setite illos of all time. I think when he does it right, his photoshop is better than his painting. Mukhtar is pretty bad though. 8) I hate Ken Meyer. With a passion. I just refuse to play with Vampires he's done. i realise that's irrational and probably stops me playing some good vamps, but I just can't bring myself to do it, such is my level of loathing. Kemintiri (which is awesome) was the last good vamp he did, imo. He's like a grey haired old rockstar. Put out one good album 20 years ago, and then kept playing long after anyone stopped caring or coming to shows. 9) :) 10) I think we can all agree that VTES art needs more boobage. And more Lesbians. With boobage. 11) I kinda dig Marian's stuff. The proportions are kind of odd, but the style is very distinctive. Adana is my fave from her KoT stuff Another one of my current faves is Leif Jones. Beth Malcolm in KoT was a bit of a slip, but his (her?) work is usually fantastic. And John Bolton. VTES needs more John Bolton imo http://www.johnbolton.com/bolton/vampires/vampires04.html jase

On Feb 10, 6:08 pm, jasonsv...@iinet.net.au wrote: > 4) I like Becky too, for some reason. I think it'd get problematic if > she did a lot of work for VTES, but the occasional piece works just > fine. Me too. > 5) Yep, Drew was good. Victoria was super cool. Drew's Leandro is the only Leandro. Do not be fooled by the imposter! > 6) Love Quinton Hoover's stuff. Really distinctive. Probably more > suited to the M Game That Shall Not be Named overall, but he did some > great stuff for VTES. Yeah, I've always liked Hoover's stuff (especially some of his early M:tG)... it's the same with Né Né Thomas (there are still two of her cards that haven't been hit with replacement art... although I still refuse to use the new boring .44 Magnum art)... good stuff, but she's more into nature/fairy scenes now. I would rather have seen what she would have done with the Kiasyd than what Shy did... although perhaps it's simpler to say that monopolies should be avoided, especially when that person's style isn't very vibrant and is short on variation, making it hard to tell which vampire is across the table. I try to limit Shy vampires as much as possible as a general service. > 8) I hate Ken Meyer. I hate some of his stuff. But he has done a few good ones... Gloria Giovanni, for instance. Brent

On Feb 8, 10:08 pm, jasonsv...wrote: (...) > when I realised that the foxy > lass on the Toreador starter box wasn't among the group. > > Did she not get printed or was I extraordinarily unlucky and not pull > her? (2 boxes, 2 starters) Someone may have asked already, but a > search proved fruitless. I wonder if she is Gwendolyn Fleming, the not released Toreador that originally appeared at the website cardlist (and CSV file) after KoT. Abraço, Luiz Mello

On Feb 10, 5:08 pm, jasonsv...@iinet.net.au wrote: > On Feb 10, 3:50 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > > > 5) Yep, Drew was good. Victoria was super cool. > Bureaucratic Overload is one of my favorites for no good reason. "Man, that's a lot of people in that room." > > 7) Funny, I really quite like some of Snelly's old photoshop. Nehsi > and Sarasine from FN are amongst my favourite Setite illos of all > time. I think when he does it right, his photoshop is better than his > painting. Mukhtar is pretty bad though. > Nehsi and Sarrasine are good, if a little cheesy. But, man, Salinger is the WORST. "I'm so ANGRY, I have fake fire around me!" > 8) I hate Ken Meyer. > Whoa, I wouldn't go that far... I do like *some* of his work, he's just not a favorite. =) Carmine Giovanni is sweet, for one, and suitably creepy. > > 11) I kinda dig Marian's stuff. The proportions are kind of odd, but > the style is very distinctive. Adana is my fave from her KoT stuff > I have to say, the more I think of it, Adana is one of the better illustrations in KoT. So, of the 4 that I know of that are Marian's, I'd call Troius a swing-and-a-miss. Honest Abe and Gracetius are not terrible, but not my style. Adana is pretty good, though. > Another one of my current faves is Leif Jones. Beth Malcolm in KoT was > a bit of a slip, but his (her?) work is usually fantastic. > Judging from John's description, he kinda screwed up Graham Gottesman (the only thing that looks right to me is the Panama hat). Not that similarity to description is the final judge of a piece of art, but I don't particularly like the illustration anyway. And I still really like Christopher Shy, despite the crowd of haters... =)

On Feb 10, 6:18 pm, Clément <lcmello.lis...@terra.com.br> wrote: > On Feb 8, 10:08 pm, jasonsv...wrote: > (...) > > > when I realised that the foxy > > lass on the Toreador starter box wasn't among the group. > > > Did she not get printed or was I extraordinarily unlucky and not pull > > her? (2 boxes, 2 starters) Someone may have asked already, but a > > search proved fruitless. > > I wonder if she isGwendolynFleming, the not released Toreador that > originally appeared at the website cardlist (and CSV file) after KoT. > > Abraço, > > Luiz Mello Yes, the KoT Toreador Starter covergirl is Gwendolyn Fleming! http://extrala.blogspot.com/2008/11/keepers-of-tradition-mishaps.html Efrem Palacios, the artist, posts the painting under the name Gwendolyn on his blog. http://efrempalacios.blogspot.com/2008/11/she-dont-talk-to-me.html -Eric Schultheis

On 12 feb, 20:39, Eric <pheer...@unseeliecourt.org> wrote: > On Feb 10, 6:18 pm, Clément <lcmello.lis...@terra.com.br> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 8, 10:08 pm, jasonsv...wrote: > > (...) > > > > when I realised that the foxy > > > lass on the Toreador starter box wasn't among the group. > > > > Did she not get printed or was I extraordinarily unlucky and not pull > > > her? (2 boxes, 2 starters) Someone may have asked already, but a > > > search proved fruitless. > > > I wonder if she isGwendolynFleming, the not released Toreador that > > originally appeared at the website cardlist (and CSV file) after KoT. > > > Abraço, > > > Luiz Mello > > Yes, the KoT Toreador Starter covergirl is Gwendolyn Fleming!http://extrala.blogspot.com/2008/11/keepers-of-tradition-mishaps.html > Efrem Palacios, the artist, posts the painting under the name > Gwendolyn on his blog.http://efrempalacios.blogspot.com/2008/11/she-dont-talk-to-me.html > > -Eric Schultheis- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - The model is Laura Prepon (Donna from That 70's Show), innit? :-)