Hey, can I do this?

From jbwhelan@amanda Thu Feb 20 11:26:18 1997 Status: O X-Status: Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:26:10 -0500 (est) From: John Whelan <jbwhelan@dorsai> X-Sender: jbwhelan@amanda Subject: Re: Hey, can I do this? In-Reply-To: <1997021812...@oaxaca.math.sc.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970218195435.18175A-100000-100000-100000@dorsai> Fcc: sent-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Scott. Thanks for your answers to my post. You are great as always. However you have only provoked me into asking more questions. On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > In rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad you write: > jbwh...@dorsai.org (John Whelan) writes: > >Agrippina plays Night Moves, then modifies with Spying Mission at superior. > >Grendel then takes over the action with Mask of 1000 faces. > > >Can Grendel do this, or was the action complete after the Spying Mission? > > Sure. The action isn't over until all players have stopped playing effects. OK, but this implies I can do other things like.... Agrippina equips. No-one blocks, so I place equipment card on Agrippina. Grendel then plays Mo1kF to complete the action. Agrippina is now untapped, but still has the equipment. Right? Or must equipment go to the final acting minion? If one can do the above, could one do the same with Ritual Challenge? The latter is slightly different since there is no text stating that one puts the card on the acting gangrel at any point...merely that the acting gangrel gets 2 hand damage. (Jyhad edition) > >Agrippina bleeds. Grendel takes over the bleed with > >Mask of 1000 Faces. Can Agrippina now bleed, or is it forbidden by "no > >repeat actions" rule? (Arguably, she never completed the action, so the > >no-repeat rule would not apply). > > That argument assumes that the restriction is on completed actions. Hmm. Actually the argument merely assumed that the restriction is on completed attempts. In this case the attempt itself is interrupted. Sorry if I'm quibbling. > It is not. > The restriction is on attempted actions. > Aggripina could not attempt another bleed this turn. Ok. But does this no-repeat rule just apply only to the vampire who initiates the action? Or does it apply equally to all who participate as a result of Mo1kF? Example...Agrippina bleeds. Prey blocks at +1 intercept. Grendel plays Mo1kF for +1 stealth. Sheldon plays another Mo1kF for +2 stealth. Sheldon then untaps with Freak Drive. I now have 3 untapped vampires, none of whom can bleed, right? Suppose Agrippina had played a third Mo1KF in an attempt to finish what she started. Would this violate the no-repeat actions rule? Or is it allowed on the grounds that it is still the same action? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks again. John W.

John Whelan wrote: > On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > > jbwh...@dorsai.org (John Whelan) writes: > > > >Agrippina plays Night Moves, then modifies with Spying Mission at superior. > > >Grendel then takes over the action with Mask of 1000 faces. > > > > >Can Grendel do this, or was the action complete after the Spying Mission? > > > > Sure. The action isn't over until all players have stopped playing effects. > > OK, but this implies I can do other things like.... Agrippina equips. > No-one blocks, so I place equipment card on Agrippina. Grendel then plays > Mo1kF to complete the action. Agrippina is now untapped, but still has > the equipment. Right? Or must equipment go to the final acting minion? The equipment isn't placed on the acting minion until the action is successfully completed (all effects are done, action resolves). So, no, Aggripinna can't be untapped by Grendel Masking after the action is completed. > If one can do the above, could one do the same with Ritual Challenge? Moot. > The latter is slightly different since there is no text stating that one > puts the card on the acting gangrel at any point...merely that the acting > gangrel gets 2 hand damage. (Jyhad edition) Yes, but that card text doesn't take effect until the action resolves. That is, until the action is completed successfully. > > >Agrippina bleeds. Grendel takes over the bleed with > > >Mask of 1000 Faces. Can Agrippina now bleed, or is it forbidden by "no > > >repeat actions" rule? (Arguably, she never completed the action, so the > > >no-repeat rule would not apply). > > > > That argument assumes that the restriction is on completed actions. > > Hmm. Actually the argument merely assumed that the restriction is on > completed attempts. In this case the attempt itself is interrupted. A completed attempt is exactly the same as a completed action (although possibly not a successful one, like if it was blocked) > Sorry if I'm quibbling. No problem. I'm familiar with the trait :-) > > > It is not. > > The restriction is on attempted actions. > > Aggripina could not attempt another bleed this turn. > > Ok. But does this no-repeat rule just apply only to the vampire who > initiates the action? Or does it apply equally to all who participate as > a result of Mo1kF? Example...Agrippina bleeds. Prey blocks at +1 > intercept. Grendel plays Mo1kF for +1 stealth. Sheldon plays another > Mo1kF for +2 stealth. Sheldon then untaps with Freak Drive. I now have 3 > untapped vampires, none of whom can bleed, right? Right. > Suppose Agrippina had played a third Mo1KF in an attempt to finish what > she started. Would this violate the no-repeat actions rule? Or is it > allowed on the grounds that it is still the same action? Hmm. This would violate the rule inasfar as I stated it for the Puzzler. But my rule is far more precise than WotC's. Perhaps this action (being the same action) wouldn't (and shouldn't) count as a "repeated" action. I'll work on rewording my statement of the rule to reflect this. Thanks. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Washington, DC: http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | America's work-free Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | drug place