Charming Lobby Question

Hello, The question of what is blockable when a minion plays Charming Lobby with a vote. Is it the Charming Lobby, the action? Is it the Vote being attempted? (or is the vote being attempted considered a modifier of the Charming Lobby? Or are both blockable? I am thinking both are blockable actions, but the fact that you have a minion attempting two actions at the same time does not follow standard play. Thanks Michael Eichler Prince of Ramstein -- Worry comes from the belief you are powerless. (So get in there and kick some butt!) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

> The question of what is blockable when a minion plays Charming Lobby > with a vote. > Is it the Charming Lobby, the action? Yes. > Is it the Vote being attempted? (or is the vote being attempted > considered a modifier of the Charming Lobby? In a manner of speaking, yes. If the Charming Lobby action is successful, the acting minion(/meth) chooses a PA (from hand or on table) to be the referrendum. > Or are both blockable? No, only the Charming Lobby. > I am thinking both are blockable actions, but the fact that you have a > minion attempting two actions at the same time does not follow standard > play. It is not 2 actions. It is one action (Charming Lobby) to call a vote. It's just another way of doing it. Sorrow --- no hate no wars no ignorance no politics no pain no force no weapons no oppression no sorrow no chemicals no dust no leaders no violence no dust no leaders no leaders now it's time for the world to see a man with open eyes now it's time to realize we tell ourselves the best of lies

Ramsteiner wrote: > The question of what is blockable when a minion plays Charming Lobby > with a vote. > > Is it the Charming Lobby, the action? You block the action. If the action is a Charming Lobby action, then that is the action that is blocked. > Is it the Vote being attempted? (or is the vote being attempted > considered a modifier of the Charming Lobby? > > Or are both blockable? If the vote to be called is a Political Action card from your hand, then that card is not played until the action is successful (not blocked). See the online rulings: Charming Lobby - Action (pre) * The "next vote you call this turn" is chosen/announced when the action is declared, and is played/called (by the acting minion) by the resolution of this action. This action is a political action. (The "next vote thereafter" is still called as a separate action, though.) If the Charming Lobby action is blocked, the Political Action Card (if any) that would have been played for the initial referendum is not played or discarded. [RTR 19980623] [RTR 19991001] -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> if unblocked you play the vote as part of charming lobby > action and continue with the referendum. does that mean you tap a second vampire to call the vote (and the action is unbockable), or do you just play the card on the vampire who did the Charming Lobby action? Online card text says the action is caleld separately..but how can this not be blocked then? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <39B64547...@white-wolf.com> > > Charming Lobby - Action (pre) > > * The "next vote you call this turn" is chosen/announced when the action > is declared, and is played/called (by the acting minion) by the > resolution of this action. This action is a political action. (The > "next vote thereafter" is still called as a separate action, though.) > If the Charming Lobby action is blocked, the Political Action Card (if > any) that would have been played for the initial referendum is not > played or discarded. [RTR 19980623] [RTR 19991001] > So, does this mean that the Charming Lobby action may succeed, and then the "next vote thereafter" may be blocked, since it is considered a separate action (although performed by the same minion)? -Korric [ quoted text not captured ]

cantila wrote: > > > if unblocked you play the vote as part of charming lobby > > action and continue with the referendum. > > does that mean you tap a second vampire to call the vote (and the > action is unbockable), or do you just play the card on the vampire who > did the Charming Lobby action? The effect of the Charming Lobby action is that some referendum (the one named on the Political Action card from your hand, for instance) is called. It doesn't force a second action, nor does it require a second vampire. Like the effect of a Vast Wealth action is that some card from your library is "equipped". It doesn't take a second action (nor a second minion) to actually equip the card. Also, the Political Action is not played "on" the vampire calling it. It is just played. > Online card text says the action is caleld separately..but how can this > not be blocked then? We're talking about the first referendum - the one called by Charming Lobby, not the one that you might call later (and that would automatically pass if the Chraming Lobby referendum passed). The online card text does not say that that first referendum is called separately. The next referendum thereafter would have to be called as a separate action (and could be blocked). [ quoted text not captured ]

kor...@my-deja.com wrote: > So, does this mean that the Charming Lobby action may succeed, and then > the "next vote thereafter" may be blocked, since it is considered a > separate action (although performed by the same minion)? Yes. The "next vote thereafter" is not necessarily called by the same vampire (and, in fact, is usually not called by the same vampire, since the vampire who performed Charming Lobby is both tapped and, in a VEKN tournament, prohibited from taking another political action in the current turn). [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:39B6860D...@white-wolf.com... > kor...@my-deja.com wrote: > > So, does this mean that the Charming Lobby action may succeed, and then > > the "next vote thereafter" may be blocked, since it is considered a > > separate action (although performed by the same minion)? > > Yes. The "next vote thereafter" is not necessarily called by the same > vampire (and, in fact, is usually not called by the same vampire, since > the vampire who performed Charming Lobby is both tapped and, in a VEKN > tournament, prohibited from taking another political action in the > current turn). > Let me take a stab at clarifying this: Bob Ventrue takes an action: I tap Bob and put down my Charming Lobby _and_ name a vote (either a PA from my hand or some other vote Bob could legally call, such as "Burn that Elysium over there"). If this action (the Charming Lobby action) is blocked, I take back the PA card (if any) and go on with my turn... Bob can still call a PA this turn, since the action he took is it's own type by card title and NOT a PA. If it is NOT blocked, then we proceed to the referendum. If the vote (called Vote 1 hereafter) passes, then the next vote (Vote 2) (be it PA card or other vote) successfully called (not blocked/DT'd/DI'd) by ANY minion (not just mine) passes without a referendum. If Bob can untap (via Freak Drive or some other effect) he can call Vote 2 himself, but he does not _have_ to be the minion calling it. It's a POWERFUL card, but expensive and risky. One way to use it is in a Madness Network/Masika is a Malk deck. It also works pretty well with Toreador Grand Ball. But _everybody_ wants to block Vote2, because if they can keep _you_ from getting Vote2 through, then _they_ can get the benefit of the autopass - even if they have no table votes. Mark Shanewood Not an LSJ, just a vote junkie www.qai.net/Shanewood/coyote.htm

Mark & Kathy ShaneWood wrote: > Let me take a stab at clarifying this: > > Bob Ventrue takes an action: I tap Bob and put down my Charming Lobby _and_ > name a vote (either a PA from my hand or some other vote Bob could legally > call, such as "Burn that Elysium over there"). If this action (the Charming > Lobby action) is blocked, I take back the PA card (if any) and go on with my Officially is isn't even played from your hand until the action is successful (unblocked) - you just declare the vote to be called without actually playing the card from your hand. > turn... Bob can still call a PA this turn, since the action he took is it's > own type by card title and NOT a PA. If it is NOT blocked, then we proceed Charming Lobby is an action-card version of a defined action type ("political action"), so counts as that type. If blocked (or not), Bob cannot attempt another political action this turn, assuming the VEKN NRA rule is in effect. > to the referendum. If the [referendum] (called [Referendum 1] hereafter) > passes, then the next [referendum] ([Referendum 2]) (be it PA card or other > [referendum]) successfully called (not blocked/DT'd/DI'd) by ANY minion > (not just mine) passes without a referendum. 1) Referendum 2, once successfully called, passes without "polling" - the referendum still exists. 2) DT cannot be played except on a successsfully called referendum, so cannot be played at all against one that will pass automatically. > If Bob can untap (via Freak Drive or some other effect) he can > call Vote 2 himself, but he does not _have_ to be the minion calling it. He cannot call Referendum 2 himself on the same turn in which he performed the Charming Lobby action, assuming the VEKN NRA rule is in effect. [ quoted text not captured ]

Ramsteiner wrote: > So now the question is... is this correct? Does Charming Lobby's Auto- > Pass vote capability extend to encompass the entire table until a > successful vote reaches the referendum stage? Yes. [RTR 09-NOV-1994] [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:39B7881A...@white-wolf.com... > Charming Lobby is an action-card version of a defined action type ("political > action"), so counts as that type. If blocked (or not), Bob cannot attempt > another political action this turn, assuming the VEKN NRA rule is in effect. > Ooops! Missed this one... Can I ask for a cite? Mark Shanewood

In article <39b84f88$0$28242$7f89...@newsreader.visi.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Here you go: "Charming Lobby - Action (pre) The "next vote you call this turn" is chosen/announced when the action is declared, and is played/called (by the acting minion) by the resolution of this action. This action is a political action. (The "next vote thereafter" is still called as a separate action, though.) If the Charming Lobby action is blocked, the Political Action Card (if any) that would have been played for the initial referendum is not played or discarded. [RTR 19980623] [RTR 19991001]" Found here: http://lasombra.tripod.com/cerc5300.htm and here: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulings.html Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra [ quoted text not captured ]

you said that Charming Lobby is a Political Action, does this mean that Natasha Volfchek gets her +1 sealth ?

feneck wrote: > you said that Charming Lobby is a Political Action, does this mean that > Natasha Volfchek gets her +1 sealth ? Yes, she gets +1 stealth on any political action, including Charming Lobby, the vote to burn the Anarch Revolt, etc. [ quoted text not captured ]