rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Taste/Theft question

14 messages from 8 participants · 31 October 1995 – 12 November 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Neil Bernstein

Net.primogens, I wonder about how Taste of Vitae (all the blood lost by opposing minion during combat end up on playing minion) interacts with Steal Blood cards (which are supposedly not conssidered damage). Let's say Sarah Cobbler (superior Thaumaturgy) is fighting Dollface. Sarah started the fight empty; she was trying to hunt, say, and Dollface found +1 intercept to block. Dollface does not maneuver; Sarah maneuvers to long range; Dollface does not counter the maneuver. Dollface does a useless hand strike; Sarah plays Theft of Vitae. Two of Dollface's blood end up on Sarah. Neither minion presses; combat is over. Then Sarah plays Taste of Vitae. Do two MORE blood end up on Sarah (making her full)? Since the blood stolen from Dollface was "lost," I suspect so, but I wonder how Taste of Vitae treats blood that is not lost as damage (since, for example, it does not take blood the opposing minion spent for its own cards during combat). Help would be appreciated. Thank you! - Neil -- nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus... in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro

Biomech8

In article <475dss$3...@amhux3.amherst.edu>, nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu (Neil Bernstein) writes: >Sarah Cobbler (superior Thaumaturgy) is fighting Dollface...Sarah maneuvers to long >range...Dollface does a useless hand strike; Sarah plays Theft of Vitae. Two of >Dollface's blood end up on Sarah...Then Sarah plays Taste of Vitae. Do two MORE >blood end up on Sarah (making her full)? Yes >I wonder how Taste of Vitae treats blood that is not lost as damage (since, for >example, it does not take blood the opposing minion spent for its own cards during >combat) The card says "blood lost", and that includes blood spent (though some players dispute this, it is the "official ruling")

Neil Bernstein

Could I have a netrep answer to my question (whether Taste of Vitae gives the blood "lost" from Theft of Vitae)? Thank you. [ quoted text not captured ]

Biomech8

>Could I have a netrep answer to my question (whether Taste of Vitae gives >the blood "lost" from Theft of Vitae)? Thank you. I am not a netrep, but the official errata released along with the V:TES rulebook a few weeks ago stated: "Taste of Vitae - combat: Counts all blood burned to any cause (healing, card cost, etc.) [RTR]" So any blood lost (or burned) for any cause by the victem is gained by the vampire playing Taste of the Vitae, though blood stealing is not listed above it falls under "etc." ~Biomechanoid

Neil Bernstein

Biomech8 (biom...@aol.com) wrote: : >Could I have a netrep answer to my question (whether Taste of Vitae gives [ quoted text not captured ] How do I get to taste the vitae you spent on Blur, Claws of the Dead, whatever? "Loss" and "payment" are not synonomous. [ quoted text not captured ]

Shane Travis

Neil Bernstein (nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu) wrote: : How do I get to taste the vitae you spent on Blur, Claws of the Dead, : whatever? "Loss" and "payment" are not synonomous. Don't shoot the messenger - Biomechanoid didn't make the silly rule. However, he is correct, officially. The way the card has been ruled to work is like this: - Note the blood that was on the vampire at the beginning of the round (A) - Note the blood the vampire has when the Taste is played (B) - Play Taste of Vitae - Gain (A) - (B) blood. _ANY_ blood that the vampire lost for _any_ reason is therefore included in these totals. Why? Good question - probably has something to do with simplicity. Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time, tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant

TONY RICARDI

-> The way the card has been ruled to work is like this: -> - Note the blood that was on the vampire at the beginning of the -> round (A) - Note the blood the vampire has when the Taste is played -> (B) -> - Play Taste of Vitae -> - Gain (A) - (B) blood. -> -> _ANY_ blood that the vampire lost for _any_ reason is therefore -> included in these totals. Why? Good question - probably has -> something to do with simplicity. ...but suppose the vampire has also GAINED blood inbetween the start of the round and when taste is played? Does that subtract from what the Tasting vamp gains? (Card text would suggest no, but the A minus B rule would mean yes...) If so, icky situations would develop if both vamps wanted to Taste each other after strike resolution; it would lead to a 'game of slap' where the player who throws the first Taste gets the blood. Tom????

Stuart J. Pieloch

tony.r...@swcbbs.com (TONY RICARDI) writes: >...but suppose the vampire has also GAINED blood inbetween the start of >the round and when taste is played? Does that subtract from what the >Tasting vamp gains? (Card text would suggest no, but the A minus B >rule would mean yes...) If so, icky situations would develop if both >vamps wanted to Taste each other after strike resolution; it would lead >to a 'game of slap' where the player who throws the first Taste gets the >blood. Taste of Vitae says lost it says nothing about counting gained blood so if you weel aimed car for 5 and they lose five you can taste five if they have well aimed car you as well then you have lost five and they can taste you These effects resolve because the vampire has lost that much blood this round of combat they may have gained it all back but they "LOST" it before tthey gained it back In short blood lost adds up for each round of combat just put it into a different pile than the blod bank So when the damage hits the blood is spent(lost) to heal and placed inthe 'tastable blood pile' if a vamp plays a card that requires paying a cost that blood goes here too. Then this pile contains the blood that a taste would garner the opposing minion Not terrbily complicated especially if it isn't two Brujah in combat That situation has arisen before and believe me Imm/grappl/Trap/TornSignpost/Fist of Death/Blur (superior) /Undead Strengths and tastes Makes combat slow and methodical That also brought up the concet of playing more than one taste of vitae in a single round of combat. After blurring for two add strikes and finding the need to taste the blood that you've now punched out of him. Tom? Stu >Tom???? -- Stu Pieloch TLTT Players-Lord High And Mighty Potentate of the Known Universe DramaTech Theatre Improv Troupe http://photobooks.gatech.edu/~zync/lttp.html GE/T/S d++(--) H(-) s++:- g+(-) p2 au++ a- w+++(--) v++ C++ U N++ W---() M+ V-- po+++(---) t--- 5+++ G+++ B--- e++ u++ f+ r++ n--- y*

Steven Bauer

In article uu...@swcbbs.com, tony.r...@swcbbs.com (TONY RICARDI) writes: > -> The way the card has been ruled to work is like this: > -> - Note the blood that was on the vampire at the beginning of the > -> round (A) - Note the blood the vampire has when the Taste is played > -> (B) > -> - Play Taste of Vitae > -> - Gain (A) - (B) blood. > -> > -> _ANY_ blood that the vampire lost for _any_ reason is therefore > -> included in these totals. Why? Good question - probably has > -> something to do with simplicity. > > ....but suppose the vampire has also GAINED blood inbetween the start of > the round and when taste is played? Does that subtract from what the > Tasting vamp gains? (Card text would suggest no, but the A minus B > rule would mean yes...) If so, icky situations would develop if both > vamps wanted to Taste each other after strike resolution; it would lead > to a 'game of slap' where the player who throws the first Taste gets the > blood. > > Tom???? I think the official rules are pretty clear, though not liked by some. The card text is "The vampire gains all the blood lost during the current round of combat by the opposing vampire." Lost means just that" (from websters) "No longer possessed", all the blood you lose for any reason, be it damage, stollen blood, or burned to pay for cards. The rules say nothing about gaining blood canceling the effect. Steve

Neil Bernstein

Biomech8 (biom...@aol.com) wrote: : In article <47jcn8$k...@amhux3.amherst.edu>, nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu : (Neil Bernstein) writes: : >How do I get to taste the vitae you spent on Blur, Claws of the Dead, : >whatever? : >"Loss" and "payment" are not synonomous. : Though "blood lost" and "blood burned" seem to be. Blood spent as : "payment" falls under "blood burned". I personally think taste should : only include blood lost due to damage, but I don't write the rules. Well, a netrep answer would clear up most of our difficulties. So here's my third request for a netrep answer. Please, Tom? Thanks. [ quoted text not captured ]

Steven Bauer

In article h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com, biom...@aol.com (Biomech8) writes: > In article <8B47412.00CA...@swcbbs.com>, tony.r...@swcbbs.com > (TONY RICARDI) writes: > > >...but suppose the vampire has also GAINED blood inbetween the start of > >the round and when taste is played? Does that subtract from what the > >Tasting vamp gains? (Card text would suggest no, but the A minus B > >rule would mean yes...) If so, icky situations would develop if both > >vamps wanted to Taste each other after strike resolution; it would lead > >to a 'game of slap' where the player who throws the first Taste gets the > >blood. > > The card says "lost", and so gaining after a loss doesn't reduce what was > originally lost. Even if it did, there would be no game of "slap", the > acting minion would have the first chance to play any post damage > prevention cards before moving on to the additional strike phase (at least > I assume that the "acting minion first" applies to all situations in > combat including this one.) I don't think there is a acting minion always goes first rule. I beleive if the card worked the way Tony thought there would be a slap situation. However there are currently no cards that work that way an no slap situations. Steve

Thomas R Wylie

Taste of Vitae counts up all blood lost by the opposing vampire, for any reason. Whether or not it *should* say this, it's what it does say. To date, we haven't considered this to be worth errata. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

L. Scott Johnson

nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu (Neil Bernstein) writes: >Biomech8 (biom...@aol.com) wrote: >: In article <47jcn8$k...@amhux3.amherst.edu>, nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu >: (Neil Bernstein) writes: >: >How do I get to taste the vitae you spent on Blur, Claws of the Dead, >: >whatever? >: >"Loss" and "payment" are not synonomous. >: Though "blood lost" and "blood burned" seem to be. Blood spent as >: "payment" falls under "blood burned". I personally think taste should >: only include blood lost due to damage, but I don't write the rules. >Well, a netrep answer would clear up most of our difficulties. So here's >my third request for a netrep answer. Please, Tom? Thanks. From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Rules Team Rulings, 9/6/95, Jyhad/VTES Date: 6 Sep 1995 19:55:01 GMT Message-ID: <42kual$p...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> 7) A vampire playing Taste of Vitae gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the opposing vampire during that round of combat regardless of the reason why the blood has been lost. The total includes stolen blood, blood burned from damage, blood burned to play combat cards (such as Blur), and so on. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Thomas R Wylie

Steven Bauer <sba...@cso.geg.mot.com> wrote: >> The card says "lost", and so gaining after a loss doesn't reduce what was >> originally lost. Even if it did, there would be no game of "slap", the >> acting minion would have the first chance to play any post damage >> prevention cards before moving on to the additional strike phase (at least >> I assume that the "acting minion first" applies to all situations in >> combat including this one.) >I don't think there is a acting minion always goes first rule. I beleive if >the card worked the way Tony thought there would be a slap situation. However >there are currently no cards that work that way an no slap situations. As a general rule, if multiple players are considering doing something at any given point in time, the active player does something (or doesn't) first, followed by the blocking player if any, followed by everyone else, going in turn order from the active player. [ quoted text not captured ]