rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Pulled fangs/sideslip

8 messages from 5 participants · 21 April 1998 – 22 April 1998
original thread on Google Groups

Martin Åkesson

During strike resolution vampire A do one damage to vampire B. Vampire B do no damage to vampire A. Neither vampire chose to prevent any damage. Vampire A chooses to play pulled fangs. Vampire B responds by playing sideslip. Now, what is possible? Vampire B prevents the damage from pulled fangs and is unaffected by the pulled fangs, take the original one damage and plays on. Vampire B prevents the original one damage, leaving the pulled fang beeing impossoble to play, resulting in Vampire B taking no damage. Vampire B prevents the original damage, takes the aggrevated damage from pulled fangs and goes to torpor. Is there any other possibility? Thanks in advance Martin Åkesson.

Quicksilver

Martin Åkesson wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Pulled Fangs is played in the press stage. Damage prevention is played during each damage prevention phase. That means you must choose whether you prevent the damage before the opponent chooses whether to play PF. So vampire B can not play sideslip in the example, he has already passed up his one and only opportunity. To prevent the damage from Pulled Fangs you would need something other than a damage prevention combat card. Flak Jacket would stop the damage, Skin of Night would turn it from aggravated to normal. But you can not play Sideslip at that point since it can only be played during damage prevention.

LSJ

Martin Åkesson wrote: > > During strike resolution vampire A does one damage to vampire B. > Vampire B does no damage to vampire A. > Neither vampire choses to prevent any damage. ... And then, during the press step: > Vampire A chooses to play pulled fangs. > Vampire B responds by playing sideslip. > Now, what is possible? Sideslip cannot be played at this time. Damage prevention cards can only be played during strike resolution [RTR]. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

James Coupe

In article <6hi9bu$1...@newstoo.ericsson.se>, Martin Åkesson <martin.akes s...@egs.ericsson.se> writes >During strike resolution vampire A do one damage to vampire B. >Vampire B do no damage to vampire A. >Neither vampire chose to prevent any damage. >Vampire A chooses to play pulled fangs. >Vampire B responds by playing sideslip. >Now, what is possible? > >Vampire B prevents the damage from pulled fangs and is unaffected by the >pulled fangs, take the original one damage and plays on. > Not possible. Pulled Fangs is not played during Strike Resolution so damage is not preventable. >Vampire B prevents the original one damage, leaving the pulled fang beeing >impossoble to play, resulting in Vampire B taking no damage. They already chose not to prevent damage and since Pulled Fangs has been played, you can't go back and prevent it. You can only prevent it with combat cards during Strike Resolution. Pulled Fangs isn't played then so you can't prevent any damage with Sideslip. > >Vampire B prevents the original damage, takes the aggrevated damage from >pulled fangs and goes to torpor. Can't prevent the original damage. Pulled Fangs means damage prevention has passed so you can't go back and prevent the damage. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia) Change nospam to obeah to reply Vampire: Elder Kindred Network madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

David Pontes

On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Quicksilver wrote: > Martin Åkesson wrote: > > Pulled Fangs is played in the press stage. Damage prevention is played > during each damage prevention phase. That means you must choose whether > you prevent the damage before the opponent chooses whether to play > PF. So vampire B can not play sideslip in the example, he has already > passed up his one and only opportunity. To prevent the damage from > Pulled Fangs you would need something other than a damage prevention > combat card. Flak Jacket would stop the damage, Skin of Night would > turn it from aggravated to normal. But you can not play Sideslip at that > point since it can only be played during damage prevention. > All this is, to my knowledge, correct, except the Skin of Night part. I was one who played Skin of Night against Michael Kelly (aka Quicksilver) on JOL8, and it did cause some commotion back then. I had a minion with 'for' in combat with another one with 'FOR'. We both struck hands, but his minion prevented my 1 point damage and played PF (all in the same email message). I claimed that I could still play Skin of Night, who would change PF's Aggro damage to normal. George Fink (the game moderator and part-time rulemonger) said that it could be played in response to a Pulled Fangs because it was not preventing the damage. But Scott reminded us a few weeks ago that there are no 'interrupts' in this game, so you can't play a card 'in response' to another (except when noted so). SoN affects all damage dealt from the time it is played onward - ie. has no retroactive effect (that I know of). There is no separate damage resolution/prevention step when one plays Pulled Fangs (though it should - maybe there could be a ruling like: whenever a combat card deals damage [and maybe we could extend it to 'any card' to cover Rutor's Hand], a Damage Prevention step should arise to allow the damaged minion to prevent the damage). Still, Michael, what I did on JOL8 was legal. You never allowed me to prevent damage, so I had time to play SoN before your PF. If you may recall, we allowed you to take back your PF. (Yeah, I know you didn't say nothing, but I'm antecipating (: ) David Pontes 8[

Martin Åkesson

Quicksilver wrote in message <353CDB71...@lmco.com>... > Pulled Fangs is played in the press stage. Damage prevention is played >during each damage prevention phase. That means you must choose whether >you prevent the damage before the opponent chooses whether to play >PF. ... If pulled fangs is played in the press stage, does that mean that Vampire A don´t get a chance to play Pulled Fangs before Vampire B strikes with additional strikes? Martin Åkesson

LSJ

In article <6hl27o$j...@newstoo.ericsson.se>, "Martin Åkesson" <martin....@egs.ericsson.se> wrote: > > > Quicksilver wrote in message <353CDB71...@lmco.com>... > > Pulled Fangs is played in the press stage. Damage prevention is played > >during each damage prevention phase. That means you must choose whether > >you prevent the damage before the opponent chooses whether to play > >PF. ... > > If pulled fangs is played in the press stage, does that mean that Vampire A > doesn´t get a chance to play Pulled Fangs before Vampire B strikes with > additional strikes? Yes, that's what it means. Note that Pulled Fangs can be played any time the round is ending - like if the opposing vampire is going to torpor. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

LSJ

In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.98042...@alfa.ist.utl.pt>, David Pontes <l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt> wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Quicksilver wrote: > > > Martin =C5kesson wrote: > >=20 > > Pulled Fangs is played in the press stage. Damage prevention is played > > during each damage prevention phase. That means you must choose whether > > you prevent the damage before the opponent chooses whether to play > > PF. So vampire B can not play sideslip in the example, he has already > > passed up his one and only opportunity. To prevent the damage from > > Pulled Fangs you would need something other than a damage prevention > > combat card. Flak Jacket would stop the damage, Skin of Night would > > turn it from aggravated to normal. But you can not play Sideslip at that > > point since it can only be played during damage prevention. > >=20 > > =09All this is, to my knowledge, correct, except the Skin of Night > part. I was one who played Skin of Night against Michael Kelly (aka > Quicksilver) on JOL8, and it did cause some commotion back then.=20 > =09I had a minion with 'for' in combat with another one with 'FOR'.=20 > We both struck hands, but his minion prevented my 1 point damage and > played PF (all in the same email message). I claimed that I could still > play Skin of Night, who would change PF's Aggro damage to normal. George > Fink (the game moderator and part-time rulemonger) said that it could be > played in response to a Pulled Fangs because it was not preventing the > damage. Nice analysis, but damage always comes in two parts: apply damage and heal damage (in the outline, these are steps V.E.2.b. and V.E.2.c., respectively). This is true even outside of strike resolution (like Pulled Fangs). Generic ruling: [LSJ 970414] Pulled Fangs ruling: [LSJ 970609] applied to Weather Control: [LSJ 970410] It seems possible that I could have ruled otherwise in private e-mail prior to those rulings (I have a vague ominous feeling that I did), and if so, I apologize. > =09But Scott reminded us a few weeks ago that there are no > 'interrupts' in this game, so you can't play a card 'in response' to > another (except when noted so). SoN affects all damage dealt from the time > it is played onward - ie. has no retroactive effect (that I know of).=20 > =09There is no separate damage resolution/prevention step when one > plays Pulled Fangs (though it should - maybe there could be a ruling like:= > =20 > whenever a combat card deals damage [and maybe we could extend it to 'any > card' to cover Rutor's Hand], a Damage Prevention step should arise to > allow the damaged minion to prevent the damage). Whenever damage is dealt, (a) the damage is applied to the minion and then (b) the minion handles the damage (burning blood/life to heal it, burning blood to prevent destruction, etc.) Damage prevention cards can be played during (a) only if the damage is occuring during strike resolution. Other (in-play) damage prevention effects can be used during (a) at any time (subject to card text - most will say "in combat"). Before going to (b), however, you are free to play Skin of Night, for example, which alters how you "treat" damage for the remainder of this round of combat. > =09Still, Michael, what I did on JOL8 was legal. You never allowed me > to prevent damage, so I had time to play SoN before your PF. If you may > recall, we allowed you to take back your PF. (Yeah, I know you didn't say > nothing, but I'm antecipating (: ) -- [ quoted text not captured ]