(LSJ) Charigger the Axe - more questions

Just to clarify - if Minion A has Charigger the Axe, and I oust Methuselah B, does Charigger the Axe get a counter for each minion that my prey had when he was ousted (since all the minions burn when my prey is ousted)? So, if Meth B is ousted with 3 minions in play, does Charigger then get 3 counters? Going back on the old Political Struggle ruling, I would assume yes, but I'm not too sure.

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:15:38 -0700, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Just to clarify - if Minion A has Charigger the Axe, and I oust > Methuselah B, does Charigger the Axe get a counter for each minion > that my prey had when he was ousted (since all the minions burn when > my prey is ousted)? The minions controlled by a Methuselah being ousted get removed from the game, not burned. > So, if Meth B is ousted with 3 minions in play, does Charigger then > get 3 counters? Going back on the old Political Struggle ruling, I > would assume yes, but I'm not too sure. No. Also, going back to a newer Political Struggle ruling might be worth it... :) -- Regards, Daneel

[ quoted text not captured ] Uhm, I'm going back to the ruling on the official rulings list on the White Wolf website, which says: The acting vampire gains X votes if the vampire with this card is burned, no matter how that vampire is burned (including, for example, if his controller is ousted). [LSJ 19990119] Found here: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=rulings That seems pretty clear to me. Why would it not apply to Charigger? Political struggle's card text also talks about the vampire being burnt and does not refer to being removed from the game as a possible condition. As far as I can tell, being removed from the game requires being burnt if the card was in play. Political Struggle: +1 stealth action. (D) Put this card on a ready vampire controlled by another Methuselah. The acting vampire may enter combat with the vampire with this card as a +1 stealth (D) action. If the vampire with this card is burned or sent into torpor, the acting vampire gains X votes, where X is the number of non-contested votes the vampire with this card has; burn this card afterward.

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 10:07:41 -0700, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Uhm, I'm going back to the ruling on the official rulings list on the > White Wolf website, which says: > > The acting vampire gains X votes if the vampire with this card is > burned, no matter how that vampire is burned (including, for example, > if his controller is ousted). [LSJ 19990119] > > Found here: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=rulings > > That seems pretty clear to me. 9.1.: When a Methuselah runs out of pool counters, she is ousted from the game. If you are ousted, all the cards you control are removed from the game. This is so ever since LoB is tournament-legal. The 1999 ruling is outdated. -- Regards, Daneel

from the online rulebook 9.1. Victory Points [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, I know that's what it says in the rulebook. That still does not mean that the minion is not burnt as it is removed from the game. 1999 was when the ruling was made - it has not been revoked or errated, so it still stands. There are many rulings in the 'official rulings' that are more current - which leads me to believe that if that ruling had changed then it would've been removed from the rulings page - as it has gone through several editings since 1999. So far, there has been no change in the rules to lead me to believe otherwise. When the ruling was made for Political struggle in 1999 a person ousted still had his cards removed from the game - that is not a new ruling. I still have not seen any rule evidence to lead me to believe the situation has changed.

On Oct 6, 8:19 pm, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > On Oct 6, 7:18 pm, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 10:07:41 -0700, The Name Forgotten > > > <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > Uhm, I'm going back to the ruling on the official rulings list on the > > > White Wolf website, which says: > > > > The acting vampire gains X votes if the vampire with this card is > > > burned, no matter how that vampire is burned (including, for example, > > > if his controller is ousted). [LSJ 19990119] > > > > Found here: > > >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=rulings > > > > That seems pretty clear to me. > > > 9.1.: > > > When a Methuselah runs out of pool counters, she is ousted from the > > game. If you are ousted, all the cards you control are removed from > > the game. > > > This is so ever since LoB is tournament-legal. The 1999 ruling is > > outdated. > > > -- > > Regards, > > > Daneel > Oh, and I've searched this newsgroup and the White Wolf site and have found no evidence that the ruling on political struggle has changed either. Maybe you'll have better luck with your search?

On Oct 6, 8:22 pm, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > On Oct 6, 8:19 pm, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: [snip] > > Oh, and I've searched this newsgroup and the White Wolf site and have > found no evidence that the ruling on political struggle has changed > either. Maybe you'll have better luck with your search?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Then again, I should have searched 'removed from game' and 'burnt' cos then I would've picked this post up from LSJ: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/26dd253072a8c59f On Mar 5, 5:37 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > adam.hu...@gmail.com wrote: > > Just curious, when a card in play is "removed from game" is that card > > considered burned? > > No. In light of this I'd like to ask LSJ to officially revoke that ruling on Political Struggle (yes, I happen to know someone who plays it like this) or clarify the above statement or Charigger. Although, I must admit that the situation given above was a slightly different one - in the sense that the person was asking if they could play cards and treat a card that has been removed from the game as burnt, rather than what I'm asking, in that a card that is removed from the game is burnt as it is removed (but never actually enters the ash-heap).

The Name Forgotten wrote: > On Oct 6, 8:22 pm, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: >> On Oct 6, 8:19 pm, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > [snip] >> Oh, and I've searched this newsgroup and the White Wolf site and have >> found no evidence that the ruling on political struggle has changed >> either. Maybe you'll have better luck with your search?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Then again, I should have searched 'removed from game' and 'burnt' cos > then I would've picked this post up from LSJ: > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/26dd253072a8c59f > > On Mar 5, 5:37 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> adam.hu...@gmail.com wrote: >>> Just curious, when a card in play is "removed from game" is that card >>> considered burned? >> No. > > In light of this I'd like to ask LSJ to officially revoke that ruling > on Political Struggle (yes, I happen to know someone who plays it like > this) or clarify the above statement or Charigger. You just quoted me officially revoking the ruling. It remains so revoked. [ quoted text not captured ]

The Name Forgotten wrote: > On Oct 6, 6:36 pm, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote: >> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:15:38 -0700, The Name Forgotten >> >> <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: >> > Just to clarify - if Minion A has Charigger the Axe, and I oust >> > Methuselah B, does Charigger the Axe get a counter for each minion >> > that my prey had when he was ousted (since all the minions burn when >> > my prey is ousted)? >> >> The minions controlled by a Methuselah being ousted get removed from >> the game, not burned. >> >> > So, if Meth B is ousted with 3 minions in play, does Charigger then >> > get 3 counters? Going back on the old Political Struggle ruling, I >> > would assume yes, but I'm not too sure. >> >> No. Also, going back to a newer Political Struggle ruling might be >> worth it... :) >> >> -- >> Regards, >> >> Daneel > > Uhm, I'm going back to the ruling on the official rulings list on the > White Wolf website, which says: > > The acting vampire gains X votes if the vampire with this card is > burned, no matter how that vampire is burned (including, for example, > if his controller is ousted). [LSJ 19990119] My understanding is that the ruling still stands, but just the parenthetical example is now obsolete, due to the rulebook changing. At the time of this ruling, if you were ousted all your cards were burned. Now when you are ousted all your cards are removed from the game. So the rulebook HAS changed in between this ruling and now. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)