Anniversary "non-extension"

As we all know, Steve promised the anniversary release wouldn't be an extension. So what can we hope for ? My personnal wish is a "best of", where all the Rares (or big uncos) were previously starter only, or not re-issued, are reprinted in boosters. Same could go for vamps and some commons. Examples : Direct Intervention, Dreams of the Sphynx, Jimmy Dunn, Spiritual Intervention, Shadow Step... What do YOU think / hope ? Orpheus (Group 2) -- "Officially, Krassimir's gender is indeterminate." LSJ

Orpheus wrote: > As we all know, Steve promised the anniversary release wouldn't be an > extension. > > <snip> > > What do YOU think / hope ? I think you should start calling it an "expansion" and not an "extension". ;) - Ben Peal fu...@mindstorm.com

[ quoted text not captured ] LOL. I've always mixed the 2, in english, and I thought I had it right this time... I really should have killed you. Next time : double dose of necropastaga !! Orpheus (Group 2)

> So what can we hope for ? > > My personnal wish is a "best of", where all the Rares (or big uncos) were > previously starter only, or not re-issued, are reprinted in boosters. Same > could go for vamps and some commons. > > Examples : > > Direct Intervention, Dreams of the Sphynx, Jimmy Dunn, Spiritual > Intervention, Shadow Step... Oh, and I forgot : an errated PTO !! ;-) Prince - Temporarily - Orpheus

I think Shadow Step should be reprinted as a Common. And I am not sure, but wouldn´t it be weird if cards that are in the in-print set SW should be reprinted? Like Direct Intervention? Although I would like to see more players get their hands on DI and Telepathic Tracking.

"Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> a écrit dans le message de news:408448a1$0$26426$626a...@news.free.fr... > As we all know, Steve promised the anniversary release wouldn't be an > extension. > > So what can we hope for ? > > My personnal wish is a "best of", where all the Rares (or big uncos) were > previously starter only, or not re-issued, are reprinted in boosters. Same > could go for vamps and some commons. > > Examples : > > Direct Intervention, Dreams of the Sphynx, Jimmy Dunn, Spiritual > Intervention, Shadow Step... > > What do YOU think / hope ? 5 new grp3 Ahrimanes...? [ quoted text not captured ]

> What do YOU think / hope ? > Advanced Smudge FC

"Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:4084c7f5$0$512$636a...@news.free.fr... > I really should have killed you. Next time : double dose of *necropastaga* !! Necropastaga: A noodle made from ground bones? DaveZ Atom Weaver

as...@hotmail.com (Henrik Klippstr?m) wrote in message news:<5a3b0aea.04042...@posting.google.com>... > I think Shadow Step should be reprinted as a Common. > > And I am not sure, but wouldn愒 it be weird if cards that are in the > in-print set SW should be reprinted? Like Direct Intervention? > Although I would like to see more players get their hands on DI and > Telepathic Tracking. I think that even if it愀 not en expansion, it will probably be cards... either reprints or promos.. If they do make reprints, they could at least make them with new art or something, to warrant their being in an "anniversary" release, otherwise they愉e just another precon.... There is a chance that they reprint old cards in the new layout also. I悲 personally hate that, the new layout still being weird to swallow, but it愀 an option. If it愀 not reprints, I think they could release something cool like one advanced vampire for each clan, or one new bloodline vamp for each bloodline. One new clan card for each clan... anything that愀 new, few, and adds something for everyone. Maybe new 11 caps for group 4? Of course the best thing they could release is 10 new group 4 vampires for the independent clans so we don愒 have to wait at least until february next year for then.. hehe.. But whatever the case, i惴 pretty sure they already made it, and probably printed it also... so no use giving them ideas now. All we can do is hope and speculate..

"Daniel Figueiredo" <om...@uol.com.br> wrote in message news:b2fbf7ad.04042...@posting.google.com... > as...@hotmail.com (Henrik Klippstr?m) wrote in message news:<5a3b0aea.04042...@posting.google.com>... > > I think Shadow Step should be reprinted as a Common. > > > > And I am not sure, but wouldn愒 it be weird if cards that are in the > > in-print set SW should be reprinted? Like Direct Intervention? > > Although I would like to see more players get their hands on DI and > > Telepathic Tracking. > > I think that even if it愀 not en expansion, it will probably be > cards... either reprints or promos.. If they do make reprints, they > could at least make them with new art or something, to warrant their > being in an "anniversary" release, otherwise they愉e just another > precon.... There is a chance that they reprint old cards in the new > layout also. I悲 personally hate that, the new layout still being > weird to swallow, but it愀 an option. No reprints I hope. New design.. bleh... I wish they would make a decision and publicly promise to leave the design alone. Permantly. Even the small difference between cam edition and black hand cards annoys me. I'm grumpy I guess... still haven't quite forgiven them for changing the backs of the cards :) FC

[ quoted text not captured ] I was wondering about that myself. I'm thinking, "Here's a dish I need not try." Fred

> > What do YOU think / hope ? > > I would love to see new art for some of the classic vamps from Jyhad. Rake, Zebulon, Dimple, Grendel, Black Cat, Uma Hatch, don't even touch Gitane St. Claire, Ricki Van Densy, Aleph, Dr Jest, Anson, and so on and so forth...I really groove on some of this stuff. otherwise no new cards. Just a "retelling" of the old would be grand. Tobin -tpl

>What do YOU think / hope ? Think - As it has been tried so many times before, some sort of collector's set. Hope - Set of advanced group one's, like 25 or 50. Why? Old players will have group one vampires (even if new players may). It can help the game's balance. BTW, speaking of groups, there are a couple of interesting possibilities with the grouping rule that I somehow don't expect to see implemented. Group "X" - can be used with any group. Group x, y - can be used with either group x or group y, e.g. Group 1, 6.

"FC" <fcap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c6395m$kip$1...@news.net.uni-c.dk>... [ quoted text not captured ] Not grumpy, not at all! You are simply more demanding of quality and thus, harder to please. I惴 like that as well. The new layouts and backgrounds and constant changes are something that still hasn愒 been explained clearly. To say that theese changes were made to make things easier for the new players not only sounded odd, but you should see the face new players make when I have to tell them that yes, not only are there two different card backs, there are two different card layouts as well, with slight variations to boot. And their racuous laughter when I tried telling them once or twice that these changes made things simpler for them... I even argunmented (against my beleifs) that they didn愒 have to worry since all their new cards would be from the same layout, but they always tell me it doesn愒 help since they will play with people that have old cards, and will probably want to trade for old cards or reprinted cards with the old layout. So.... apart from wasting mine and my players time, and getting some laughs out of people, ths argument serves no purpose. If everyone were a bit more concerned about the quality of the cards in general and more demanding of consistency and (I don愒 know the exact best word for what I want to say in english) aesthetics/visual quality/fine tuning/something like it... i惴 sure by now we would AT LEAST have been given a reason as to why these changes were made when they were made and/or been given previous notice/some way to express our thoughts on such a big change. I realize that there are people who could care less what the cards looked like, but I do think that these people are the minority. I am also not discussing purely subjective matters here (like artist X is better than Z), what I am referring to are the background changes, the new layout, the changes to the symbols, the way they couldn愒 even place the disicpline symbols neatly on older sets like Final Nights and Sabbat War (some were slightly off center, some slightly bigger or smaller), the huge expansion symbols on the newer vampires (the most useless piece of information on a card, especially on cards that have the group number on them), the way each and every expansion has printing errors, some are subtle like Power Structure not having the Lasombra symbol in the first run of Sabbat War, some blatant mistakes like the missing switched vampires from Black Hand, heck, even the lack of imagination in creating expansion symbols from Sabbat War to Anarchs (how much different can those ankhs get?) is something that can be held against them. (how I miss the cool symbols from Dark Sovereings and Ancient Hearts, and the different booster packs from AH as well...) I may be sounding a bit harsh, but we buy the game, and like all card games, this is something completely superfulous (addictions aside... hehe), which means that they need us. Not the other way around. Many people, whether they realize it or not, sometimes seem to be content with anything and act like we are doing WW a favor buying this game so that they can continue to make it for us. These people tend to get so frightened that mass dissatisfaction from players might suddenly end the game that they get all riled up whenever someone complains about these matters, any matters that aren愒 rules matters. We need to abolish this "WW is an angel for giving us the game" mentality and start asking for their best. I am not saying they are giving us a bad game, or that they don愒 like what they do, but they could do it better. Note also that this complaint has nothing to do with prize support, tournaments, leagues or anything that goes in parrallel to the game itslef. WW has that pretty well covered.

> > I really should have killed you. Next time : double dose of *necropastaga* > !! > > Necropastaga: A noodle made from ground bones? Pastaga is pastis, a local drink based on anis (like absynth). Necro is my own personnal mix from my necroflask... ;-) Just ask Ben how pure absynth from a necroflask tastes like... O.

Orpheus wrote: > Just ask Ben how pure absynth from a necroflask tastes like... Pure pastis. Ouch. -- Francois I DID NOT INVENT IRISH DANCING Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 5F03

"Henrik Klippstr?m" <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:5a3b0aea.04042...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] They've done reprints of still in production sets before: Tier of Souls (Babbat war/anarchs) comes immediately to mind. -JTP

Daniel Figueiredo wrote: > If it愀 not reprints, I think they could release something cool like > one advanced vampire for each clan, or one new bloodline vamp for each > bloodline. One new clan card for each clan... anything that愀 new, > few, and adds something for everyone. Maybe new 11 caps for group 4? One of those "lost in translation" things. But folks, if it's not reprints, I'm pretty sure you have to call it an expansion. You're expanding the card base. If you insist, "It's not an expansion" then you must mean you're just reprinting stuff. What am I missing here? (It'd be kind of bush league to insist something's "not an expansion" and then sneak a few expansion cards into it. Just MHO.) Fred

> What do YOU think / hope ? > > > Orpheus (Group 2) > > -- > "Officially, Krassimir's gender is indeterminate." > Some (or most) of the independent vamps appeared in Final Nights with the new background and marked as group 3 should be enough. but then... The 11th cap indies as uncommons. Smudge advanced and some group 1 with new background/art New art for Betrayer Signet of King Saul And of course, my favourite card: Brujah Debate printed again (28 aren't enough) Smiling Tom

Orpheus wrote: > As we all know, Steve promised the anniversary release wouldn't be an > extension. > > What do YOU think / hope ? Very small stickers of brightly colored pointy hats we could stick on vampires' portraits. And a promo-only "Bithrday Cake" equipment card. -- Francois I WILL NOT BELCH THE NATIONAL ANTHEM Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 7F15

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:42:06 +0200, "Smiling Tom" <tma...@almadrava.net> scrawled: > >> What do YOU think / hope ? >> >> >> Orpheus (Group 2) >> >> -- >> "Officially, Krassimir's gender is indeterminate." >> > >Some (or most) of the independent vamps appeared in Final Nights with the >new background and marked as group 3 should be enough. that'd suck. i'd much prefer if they were marked as group 2, so i wouldn't have to retool half my crypts. ;) salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! Can't wait for the next preview... O. -- "Officially, Krassimir's gender is indeterminate." LSJ mail)

Sorry, this should be a new thread. And will be. O., going to sleep now... -- "Officially, Krassimir's gender is indeterminate." LSJ "Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> a écrit dans le message de news: 408849ea$0$17509$626a...@news.free.fr... [ quoted text not captured ]

Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! Can't wait for the next preview... Orpheus [ quoted text not captured ]

Orpheus wrote: > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > > Can't wait for the next preview... Well, ya know, Crusades are something that the game needs. They aren't flashy or exciting, no, but they are a necessary building block of the game. And as getting Crusades to match all the Praxis Seizures makes a given rule more likely to come up (i.e. the one that determines what happens when there is a Prince and a Arch Bishop of the same city), then it is possible that people might go "Cool! A Crusade Berlin!". I'm not quite sure what the problem is. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "Mr. President, ask not what your rest home can do for you. Ask what you can do for your rest home." -Elvis

> > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > > > > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > > > > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > > > > Can't wait for the next preview... > > Well, ya know, Crusades are something that the game needs. They aren't > flashy or exciting, no, but they are a necessary building block of the game. > And as getting Crusades to match all the Praxis Seizures makes a given rule > more likely to come up (i.e. the one that determines what happens when there > is a Prince and a Arch Bishop of the same city), then it is possible that > people might go "Cool! A Crusade Berlin!". > > I'm not quite sure what the problem is. I agree with the necessity of the cards. The "problem" is that opening a booster pack with Crusade as the rare is a bit of a downer. FC

Frederik Cappeln wrote: > I agree with the necessity of the cards. The "problem" is that opening a > booster > pack with Crusade as the rare is a bit of a downer. That's always been the case. But we need Crusades. And they don't really need to be more common than a Rare. I mean, yeah, I'm not real psyched either when I get a Crusade or PS as my rare, but it doesn't happen that often, and I'm just as likely to get, like, a Last Stand or something too :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

> I'm not quite sure what the problem is. > > > Peter D Bakija > pd...@lightlink.com > http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 I don't either. It's a great Crusade for the voting power of the Lasombra. Is it spiffy or uber powerful or grand? Noooo... but not every card that comes out can be a Succubus or a War Ghoul or Baltimore Purge. Some have to be the Movement of the Mind. Aye, I hate the fact that Praxi and Crusades take up a rare slot, but they are tradeable, they are sellable, and DAMN THAT'S A COOL PICTURE! Jamie The Seppo

The problem is.. like Praxis Seizures.. they're the stupid rares you get in a box that can't sell for more than 50 cents.... :-P ---DeistMutt--- Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:<BCADC56B.16060%pd...@lightlink.com>... [ quoted text not captured ]

"Frederik Cappeln" <f...@aub.dk> wrote in message news:4088612f$0$1118$4d4e...@read-nat.news.dk.uu.net... [ quoted text not captured ] The alternative is making the crusades and such a Common and having 10 or so crappy crusades in a box as opposed to 1 or 2. I don't mind. oscar

Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:<BCADC56B.16060%pd...@lightlink.com>... > Orpheus wrote: > > > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > > > > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > > > > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > > > > Can't wait for the next preview... > > Well, ya know, Crusades are something that the game needs. They aren't > flashy or exciting, no, but they are a necessary building block of the game. > And as getting Crusades to match all the Praxis Seizures makes a given rule > more likely to come up (i.e. the one that determines what happens when there > is a Prince and a Arch Bishop of the same city), then it is possible that > people might go "Cool! A Crusade Berlin!". > > I'm not quite sure what the problem is. > Quite the same for me !!! I like the idea... but don't buy any Gehenna boosters if you don't want, you will find some people to trade the cards you'll be needing...

Frederik Cappeln <f...@aub.dk> wrote: > The "problem" is that opening a booster pack > with Crusade as the rare is a bit of a downer. Frederik, are you new to No Card Limit (NCL) games? If not: in NCL games, putting the cards that you would want lots of as commons and the cards that you would want fewer of as rares is the norm, for the obvious reasons. If so: would you rather have Crusades as commons and Majesty as rares? I guess so, eh? > FC Kevin M., Prince of Henderson, NV (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:BCADC56B.16060%pd...@lightlink.com... > Orpheus wrote: > > > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > > > > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > > > > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > > > > Can't wait for the next preview... > > Well, ya know, Crusades are something that the game needs. They aren't > flashy or exciting, no, but they are a necessary building block of the game. > And as getting Crusades to match all the Praxis Seizures makes a given rule > more likely to come up (i.e. the one that determines what happens when there > is a Prince and a Arch Bishop of the same city), then it is possible that > people might go "Cool! A Crusade Berlin!". > > I'm not quite sure what the problem is. I think Orpheus' point was that a crusade is a bad preview because it does not showcase something exciting and new about the set. We have gotten crusade's before. Reformation is a new and exciting card, siphon is new, the event cards are new. The vampire previews are likewise boring. Yes Crusades are important (what would the unemployed knights do?!), but do they generate interest in the set? No. At least they generate less interest than the previous preview cards. Colin Riggs

> > I agree with the necessity of the cards. The "problem" is that opening a > > booster > > pack with Crusade as the rare is a bit of a downer. > > That's always been the case. But we need Crusades. And they don't really > need to be more common than a Rare. I mean, yeah, I'm not real psyched > either when I get a Crusade or PS as my rare, but it doesn't happen that > often, and I'm just as likely to get, like, a Last Stand or something too > :-) Of course, we need them ! And I didn't say it wouldn't be nice for a Lasombra to get one and untap ! What I meant was that on a preview site, I'm waiting for some new and exciting ideas, not for cards we already know all about (oh, yes, it's a different Clan, sorry...). Orpheus

Orpheus wrote: > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > > Can't wait for the next preview... > > > Orpheus from www.thepathofblood.com LSJ wrote : A few of the Black Hand Crusades had that sort of benefit as well, so it's not new to this set. The artwork on that one is what pushed it across the "worth a preview look" line for me. _________________ V:TES Net.Rep. Nagaraja

Some thoughts: Nobody has EVER traded with me for a Crusade or a Praxis Seizure. Crusades and PS are only played in lame weenie decks from hell. Crusade cards should be made Uncommon instead of Rare. A Crusade is a sad preview because it is not much "new" about it.

"Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:40884a43$0$17491$626a...@news.free.fr... > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > Can't wait for the next preview... I totally agree with you. The cards shown on WW site as preview for Gehenna are pretty lame and, except for the vamps, won't be seen in many decks. I am perhaps missing something but I don't see the point of cards like: - Anthelios (beside being played in deck based on Anson and master phase orgies I don't see where it could be useful) - Siphon (do you often see vamps in torpor with blood on them?) - Black Hand Ritual (limited even for a black hand deck) - The path of Lilith (why should I play that card instead of Fame?) - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) - Crusade Berlin (cool artwork but beside that...) Jean-Philippe

Orpheus wrote: > Of course, we need them ! And I didn't say it wouldn't be nice for a > Lasombra to get one and untap ! What I meant was that on a preview site, I'm > waiting for some new and exciting ideas, not for cards we already know all > about (oh, yes, it's a different Clan, sorry...). Built-in freak drives give me wood. __ David Cherryholmes

Jamie The Seppo wrote: > I don't either. It's a great Crusade for the voting power of the > Lasombra. Is it spiffy or uber powerful or grand? Noooo... but not > every card that comes out can be a Succubus or a War Ghoul or > Baltimore Purge. Some have to be the Movement of the Mind. > Aye, I hate the fact that Praxi and Crusades take up a rare slot, but > they are tradeable, they are sellable, and DAMN THAT'S A COOL PICTURE! Agreed. The art rawks. __ David Cherryholmes

"Henrik Klippstr?m" <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:5a3b0aea.04042...@posting.google.com... > Some thoughts: > > Nobody has EVER traded with me for a Crusade or a Praxis Seizure. > Have you ever asked? > Crusades and PS are only played in lame weenie decks from hell. > Patently wrong. > Crusade cards should be made Uncommon instead of Rare. > And take the spot of a vampire, which I might actually want duplicates of? No thanks, partner. It's back to statistics class for you... > A Crusade is a sad preview because it is not much "new" about it. Noted, and likely true. DaveZ Atom Weaver

Orpheus wrote: > > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > > Can't wait for the next preview... Er, I don't suppose you noticed the rather unique power for Lasombras who become Archbishop of Berlin. Granted, it's not QUITE as good as a built-in Rutor's Hand, but it's nothing to sneeze at. Not bad if you've got a Lasombra deck looking to pass Crusades. Anyway, I appreciated how the designers put a little spice in a Crusade card, even if you didn't. I would enjoy seeing a few more Crusades and Praxis Seizures with such assorted cool little powers like that built in. Fred

DeistMutts wrote: > > The problem is.. like Praxis Seizures.. they're the stupid rares you > get in a box that can't sell for more than 50 cents.... :-P Unfortunately, there's no answer to that. There's so many different Crusades and Praxis Seizures out that they're almost the one card I wouldn't mind seeing as "super rares" just because even at the rare level, the game has more of them than it needs. But in saying that, I wouldn't want less variety of them than there are. It's a good thing that the number of different Crusades and Praxis Seizures are so varied. And the answer, clearly, is not to make them _more_ common - or you'd have them coming out your ears. So I think you just have to put up with the fact that some rare slots are not as good as others. Fred

Colin Riggs wrote: > > "Peter D Bakija" <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message > news:BCADC56B.16060%pd...@lightlink.com... > > I'm not quite sure what the problem is. > > I think Orpheus' point was that a crusade is a bad preview because it does > not showcase something exciting and new about the set. But clearly it does. Well, OK, it's not THAT exciting. But it is a little different, for a Crusade card. Fred

Jean-Philippe wrote: > "Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message > news:40884a43$0$17491$626a...@news.free.fr... >> Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the >> previews... Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. >> Great ! >> Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! >> Can't wait for the next preview... > > I totally agree with you. > The cards shown on WW site as preview for Gehenna are pretty lame and, > except for the vamps, won't be seen in many decks. > I am perhaps missing something but I don't see the point of cards > like: > - Anthelios (beside being played in deck based on Anson and master > phase orgies I don't see where it could be useful) I do > - Siphon (do you often see vamps in torpor with blood on them?) yes, often > - Black Hand Ritual (limited even for a black hand deck) interesting to see that WW keeps previous expansions interesting > - The path of Lilith (why should I play that card instead of Fame?) why shouldn't you play it IN ADDITION to fame ? > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be > useful and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in > Jyhad) you're wrong I guess. Horribly powerful card. > - Crusade Berlin (cool artwork but beside that...) shown in preview for the artwork, which is cool. > > Jean-Philippe Nagaraja

I find it amusing that there was no comment in this email about yet-another-sucky-Anarch-3-way. Clearly their reputation has grown. > - Anthelios (beside being played in deck based on Anson and master phase > orgies I don't see where it could be useful) Maybe you draw a hunting ground when you were short on pool and want to trade it for a minion tap. Maybe your prey or predator is master-heavy and you need to recycle a Sudden Reversal to survive. Maybe you just want everyone to KNOW you have a Sudden Reversal in your hand. > - Siphon (do you often see vamps in torpor with blood on them?) Baltimore Purge. Aggropoke. > - Black Hand Ritual (limited even for a black hand deck) Untapping your other vampires with stealth is always useful. And the secondary effect is important. Whenever a game introduces something brand new, it is Standard Operating Procedure to introduce a few counter cards. > - The path of Lilith (why should I play that card instead of Fame?) You shouldn't. But you SHOULD play both. > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) This card completely depends on the number of Gehenna Cards in play. It may be nearly useless, it could make it VERY dangerous to play Gehenna cards. > - Crusade Berlin (cool artwork but beside that...) > Aren't there always people who bitch and moan about the artwork? Isn't it nice to know that there's good artwork in this set, even on so-called useless cards? None of these are cards to build your deck around (except maybe NUN). They are, however, additive to existing strategies, which is the main purpose of an expansion, particularly the preview.

Just to let you know. Also Nagaraja has posted similar thoughts to what I am about to reiterate. > The cards shown on WW site as preview for Gehenna are pretty lame and, > except for the vamps, won't be seen in many decks. > I am perhaps missing something but I don't see the point of cards like: > - Anthelios (beside being played in deck based on Anson and master phase > orgies I don't see where it could be useful) Anthelios is fantastic for defeating sudden reversals. Oh, you sudden my blood doll. I use Anthelios to put it back into my hand. > - Siphon (do you often see vamps in torpor with blood on them?) Apparently your playgroup hasn't seen the trump power of Rotshrek, Ivory Bow, Rowan Ring or even the lowly Stake. Hmm, aggropoke anyone. > - Black Hand Ritual (limited even for a black hand deck) Cornercase, but then again if you are seeing alot of Gehenna cards then it will be very useful. > - The path of Lilith (why should I play that card instead of Fame?) Umm, lets see, I combine it with Fame, Tension and Path of Lilith so now when Parnassus knocks Ozmo into torpor you burn 6 pool. Nice! > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) This card is my personal nightmare. It Stacks! Round 1 put 1 in play. Round 2 burn a card for each 1 cap you untap, play 2nd Nightmare upon Nightmares. Round 3 burn 2 cards for each 1-2 cap you untap, play 3rd Nightmare upon nightmares. Round 4 burn 3 cards for each 1-3 cap you untap. play 4th Nightmare upon Nightmare. Round 5 burn 4 cards for each 1-4 cap you untap, play 5th Nightmare upon Nightmares. > - Crusade Berlin (cool artwork but beside that...) Crusade Berlin- Hah! getting wood for two reasons -- Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

"skippy" <ski...@dontspammetamu.edu> wrote > > I agree with the necessity of the cards. The "problem" is that opening a > > booster > > pack with Crusade as the rare is a bit of a downer. > > The alternative is making the crusades and such a Common and having 10 or so > crappy crusades in a box > as opposed to 1 or 2. > > I don't mind. hey WW ! why don't you put them in the damn starters ? ;))

"Nagaraja" <ego...@club-internet.frNOSPAM> wrote > from www.thepathofblood.com > > LSJ wrote : A few of the Black Hand Crusades had that sort of benefit as > well, so it's not new to this set. The artwork on that one is what pushed it > across the "worth a preview look" line for me. > _________________ > V:TES Net.Rep. > > > Nagaraja wow! do *not* post those kind of GIF icon ! James Coupe would soon rise from torpor ;)

"Francois Gombault" <gombault...@BROKEN.ADDRESS.wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:c65kkt$98i$1...@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr... > Orpheus wrote: > > As we all know, Steve promised the anniversary release wouldn't be an > > extension. > > > > What do YOU think / hope ? > > Very small stickers of brightly colored pointy hats we could stick on > vampires' portraits. And a promo-only "Bithrday Cake" equipment card. some will complaint about Huitzilo and the gargoyles unable to wear such hats !

Frederick Scott wrote: > Er, I don't suppose you noticed the rather unique power for Lasombras > who become Archbishop of Berlin. Granted, it's not QUITE as good as > a built-in Rutor's Hand, but it's nothing to sneeze at. Not bad if > you've got a Lasombra deck looking to pass Crusades. Er, I believe that "untaps during your next discard phase" means "the discard phase after this vote was played", _not_ "every discard phase after this vote was played". More like Leather Jacket. --Colin McGuigan

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:<408911f9$0$33210$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... > "Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message > news:40884a43$0$17491$626a...@news.free.fr... > > Well, some time ago Reyda ranted about the lameness of the previews... > > Wow, now we've got another "Black Hand style" Crusade. Great ! > > Doesn't it make everyone want to buy Gehenna boxes ?! > > Can't wait for the next preview... > > I totally agree with you. > The cards shown on WW site as preview for Gehenna are pretty lame and, > except for the vamps, won't be seen in many decks. > I am perhaps missing something but I don't see the point of cards like: > - Anthelios (beside being played in deck based on Anson and master phase > orgies I don't see where it could be useful) When a key Master card of yours gets Sudden Reversal-ed (or a location Master gets Arsoned/otherwise blown up unexpectedly), you can now get it back into your hand to play again, for instance. I can also see it being used with corner-case Master cards. Example: putting a Fear of Mekhet into your deck to deal with Arika-based decks, only to find everybody playing weenies - now you can recycle it for something more useful. > - Siphon (do you often see vamps in torpor with blood on them?) Every single time I see (or play) a Purge deck or an intercept-Rotschreck deck or a Force of Will deck, for starters. > - Black Hand Ritual (limited even for a black hand deck) Likely true. But it's nice of them to show us that Events can actually be removed from play. > - The path of Lilith (why should I play that card instead of Fame?) Try this: Why _wouldn't_ you play this _as well as_ Fame, assuming your deck is an appropriate type of beatdown deck? Especially since a number of players do put a Fame in their non-combat decks specifically to contest Fames that might get played on them... Also, I'd put this in my recent tourney deck _way_ before I'd put a Fame in - it's an intercept-combat deck. I'd much rather know that regardless of whichever vampire of my prey's I intercept, torporing him will cost him pool, without me having to make a zero-stealth rush (if I can get a rush, which my deck had, well, none of discounting Beast) at the Famous vampire and have to struggle to even fight the correct vampire. > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) Of course, Slaughterhouse has almost nothing to do with the 'power of discard', except that they both make a player run out of deck faster. (Slaughterhouse, since it burns cards off the top of the deck, does not actually let or make anybody discard any part of their hand, unlike NuN.) In any case, it remains to be seen how many Gehenna cards will exist or how prevalent they'll be. NuN could be quite useful if everybody's going to be using Gehenna cards. Also, keep in mind that there's no limit to how many Gehenna cards a specific player can play, aside from 'each only once'. (Assuming they put enough in the set) a player could stack 4 or 5 event cards himself to power NuN.. > - Crusade Berlin (cool artwork but beside that...) As LSJ has stated, the artwork was a factor in making it a preview card. *shrug* > > Jean-Philippe -John Flournoy

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:<408911f9$0$33210$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... > The cards shown on WW site as preview for Gehenna are pretty lame and, > except for the vamps, won't be seen in many decks. But will be seen in many fun, creative, table-winning decks. > I am perhaps missing something but I don't see the point of cards like: > - Anthelios (beside being played in deck based on Anson and master phase > orgies I don't see where it could be useful) Useful in any deck where you include many copies of a Unique master you need to draw early (Info Highway, Seattle Committee, Legendary Vamp) but would like to be able to trade in later for a more generally useful master, particularly OOT ones (Sudden Reversal, Direct Intervention). > - Siphon (do you often see vamps in torpor with blood on them?) You do when you put them there. Besides the obvious Baltimore Purge synergy, you could use it in a Force of Will deck to draw back the Recure of the Homeland, Rapid Healing, Movement of the Slow body or whatever you need to get your minions back. Hell, maybe someone will finally build a working Regeneration deck. > - Black Hand Ritual (limited even for a black hand deck) Probably critical in a Gehenna deck where you need to control the number of Gehenna cards in play. > - The path of Lilith (why should I play that card instead of Fame?) Why shouldn't you play it as well as Fame, especially in intercept/combat decks? Certainly it will inflict less collateral damage than Tension or Fame. > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) Since we've seen only two Gehenna cards, I doubt anyone can judge how useful this card is. Assuming others have similar based-on-Gehenna-cards-in-play effects, I assume we're seeing the birth of a new deck archetype. > - Crusade Berlin (cool artwork but beside that...) ...besides that, it's the best title-gaining vote ever for Lasombra of capacity 6 or lower? Not a sexy card, but it's really hard to argue it's not useful.

> > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be > > useful and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in > > Jyhad) > > This card is my personal nightmare. It Stacks! No it doesn't. The card can only be played once per game. And you also forget the Do Not Replace Clause. After it hits the table, you can only untap X afflicted things, where X is your hand size. That's why it hoses weenies so much. Not that you have to discard, but you have to discard YOUR ENTIRE HAND and want to discard more.

Reyda wrote: > some will complaint about Huitzilo and the gargoyles unable to wear such > hats ! Well, there's only one way to solve this issue... POLL: Very small stickers of brightly colored pointy hats ARE BROKEN!!! [ ] YES! [ ] NO WAY! [ ] TROLL! [ ] FLAME! -- Francois I WILL NOT DO THE DIRTY BIRD Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode AABF08

In article <408936B1...@nospam.com>, Frederick Scott says... > Unfortunately, there's no answer to that. There's so many different > Crusades and Praxis Seizures out that they're almost the one card I > wouldn't mind seeing as "super rares" just because even at the rare > level, the game has more of them than it needs. Well, you could make them the infamous "R1". Hell, it might even assign some value to them. -- -Snapcase

"Tobin Lopes" <tobinhate...@adelphia.fishingnet> wrote in message news:PuudnbmOTKu...@adelphia.com... > > > > What do YOU think / hope ? > > > > > I would love to see new art for some of the classic vamps from Jyhad. > > Rake, Zebulon, Dimple, Grendel, Black Cat, Uma Hatch, don't even touch > Gitane St. Claire, Ricki Van Densy, Aleph, Dr Jest, Anson, and so on and > so forth...I really groove on some of this stuff. otherwise no new cards. > Just a "retelling" of the old would be grand. With the current level of illustrators -ken meyer jr, alejandro colucci,jeff holt other guys who make uber-horrible stuff, i don't feel it would be that good to see the old vamps re-vamped ;) Unless they hire talented people again,of course.

>POLL: Very small stickers of brightly colored pointy hats ARE BROKEN!!! >[ ] YES! >[ ] NO WAY! >[ ] TROLL! >[ ] FLAME! Mark me down for NO WAY and TROLL Robert M. Sachs V:EKN Prince of Naperville, IL Asst. ST, College of DuPage by Night http://hometown.aol.com/CODByNight "Who controls the past now, controls the future. Who controls the present now, controls the past." ~ Zach de la Rocha

Francois Gombault wrote: > Reyda wrote: > > some will complaint about Huitzilo and the gargoyles unable to wear such > > hats ! > > Well, there's only one way to solve this issue... > > POLL: Very small stickers of brightly colored pointy hats ARE BROKEN!!! > [ ] YES! > [ ] NO WAY! > [ ] TROLL! > [ ] FLAME! Not broken. But clearly disruptive! o<:^) Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] DOH! I also noticed that the Black Hand Crusades did the same thing, so I cancelled my post. However, my newsreader doesn't seem to actually cancel posts - it just TELLS it canceled them and refuses to show them to me after that. So, OK, I just have to admit it: I'm stupid and I can't read card text. Let's just move on, people. Nothing to see here... Fred

> Anthelios is fantastic for defeating sudden reversals. Oh, you sudden my > blood doll. I use Anthelios to put it back into my hand. Yeah, and the guy playing the sudden will take it back as well... Oh, fantastic!!! > Apparently your playgroup hasn't seen the trump power of Rotshrek, My play group has seen the power of Psyche, Telepathic tracking and Sire Index... > Umm, lets see, I combine it with Fame, Tension and Path of Lilith so now > when Parnassus knocks Ozmo into torpor you burn 6 pool. Nice! How many master cards do you play in your decks??? JPh

> I do An example? > yes, often My playgroup is combat heavy so most of the time our vamps are landing empty into torpor. > why shouldn't you play it IN ADDITION to fame ? Because it is another master card and in a combat deck you don't like having a hand jammed with master cards. > you're wrong I guess. Horribly powerful card. I maybe wrong but I can't imagine this card working. I just remember the hype about Slaughter House and it turned out to be a useless card. Jean-Philippe

as...@hotmail.com (Henrik Klippstr?m) wrote in message news:<5a3b0aea.04042...@posting.google.com>... > I think Shadow Step should be reprinted as a Common. > > And I am not sure, but wouldn´t it be weird if cards that are in the > in-print set SW should be reprinted? Like Direct Intervention? > Although I would like to see more players get their hands on DI and > Telepathic Tracking. Having, quite probably, lost a table win due to a Direct Intervention in my first tournament ( German Championship, which was this weekend in Essen ), I heartily agree. It really sucks that everybody and his brother had DI´s there, and I can´t get my hands on one, without selling my grandmother. Magnus

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:408cc6a9$0$18702$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at... > > Anthelios is fantastic for defeating sudden reversals. Oh, you sudden my > > blood doll. I use Anthelios to put it back into my hand. > > Yeah, and the guy playing the sudden will take it back as well... > Oh, fantastic!!! I don't like Anthelios. I think Anthelios actually heavly screws Bleeding The Vine (i use it a lot) and Rewind Time (thus screwing true brujah) by allowing your "victim" to use the "replacement" master phase action to fetch the denied card from his ash heap. It's too tiring to exchange lots of cards for others only to discover they are trumped in the next expansion. Me tired.

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:408cc6a9$0$18702$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at... [ quoted text not captured ] Depending on the type of rush between 10-17 master cards. You should base your number of masters upon your cycle rate. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:408cf267$0$25423$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Oh, come on, this is the 2nd expansion after Anarchs ;). I will be interested on the impact of this card on the game. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:<408ccd3f$0$13326$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... > > > you're wrong I guess. Horribly powerful card. > > I maybe wrong but I can't imagine this card working. I just remember the > hype about Slaughter House and it turned out to be a useless card. > > Jean-Philippe a useless card that's won me three tournements... I'm going with Naga on this one. cameron

> > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful > > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) > > This card completely depends on the number of Gehenna Cards in play. It > may be nearly useless, it could make it VERY dangerous to play Gehenna > cards. Actually, isn't this just the perfect card to kill any Shambling Hordes decks? Or maybe the ever annoying Nephandus decks? They have no way of getting around even a standalone NuN, they are neither Mortal Allies nor Vampires. -johnmeier1 Who can't wait to make a Nun-deck ;)

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:<408ccd3f$0$13326$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... (Discussion about various cards including Nightmare Upon Nightmare snipped) > > you're wrong I guess. Horribly powerful card. > > I maybe wrong but I can't imagine this card working. I just remember the > hype about Slaughter House and it turned out to be a useless card. Slaughterhouse is a 'useless' card that's been the centerpiece of decks winning tourneys in this part of the world, for whatever that's worth. Though I totally agree that it was over-hyped, that's more a matter of the absurd hype involved, IMO. > Jean-Philippe -John Flournoy

"johnmeier1" <johnm...@catholic.org> wrote in message news:2b593401.04042...@posting.google.com... > > > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful > > > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) > > > > This card completely depends on the number of Gehenna Cards in play. It > > may be nearly useless, it could make it VERY dangerous to play Gehenna > > cards. > > Actually, isn't this just the perfect card to kill any Shambling > Hordes decks? Or maybe the ever annoying Nephandus decks? for the Shambling hordes, i dougt so : you offer them the opportunity to discard more shambling hords each turn that they'll ever dream of. Then they can recruit more. Plus necro can bring cards from the ash heap to the deck, so NuN is on the contrary an accelerator for shambling decks.

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:<408cc6a9$0$18702$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... > > Anthelios is fantastic for defeating sudden reversals. Oh, you sudden my > > blood doll. I use Anthelios to put it back into my hand. > > Yeah, and the guy playing the sudden will take it back as well... > Oh, fantastic!!! Excellent point. Where I see it benefitting (on further reflection) is either: decks that put 3 or 4 copies of a key unique Master to insure getting it out early, or decks that have conditional Masters that might not be useful at a given moment (Archon Investigation with a non-bleed deck behind you, Zillah's Valley with not enough pool to pay for it, a discipline master when all your controlled vamps already have it at superior etc). Instead of simply discarding it, you can use it to re-grab one you've used before - like Sudden Reversal, or Dreams, or whatever. > > Umm, lets see, I combine it with Fame, Tension and Path of Lilith so now > > when Parnassus knocks Ozmo into torpor you burn 6 pool. Nice! > > How many master cards do you play in your decks??? Some solid rush decks could be built using (almost) nothing but these three master cards, I bet.. it'd make for an interesting deckbuilding challenge, certainly. > JPh -John Flournoy

> > Apparently your playgroup hasn't seen the trump power of Rotshrek, > > My play group has seen the power of Psyche, Telepathic tracking and Sire > Index... Sure. So, we have to play these in each of our decks just to counter Rötbeurk, as we have to play For just to avoid Kiss of Râ and Camarilla just against PTO and J:CS ? Nice. From now on, I'll only play Tegyrius and Madame Guil, just to be sure... ;-) Seriously, I've just had two of my games in a qualifier ruined by Rötschreck, although I had carefully planned my actions waiting for the right cards, including prevent, and there was absolutely nothing I could do except not act at all. No card should be able to do that against a valid deck (which mine apparently was, given its overall results). Orpheus, hating the "you lose" cards.

In message <408d8d72$0$22872$626a...@news.free.fr>, "Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> mumbled something about: >Seriously, I've just had two of my games in a qualifier ruined by >Rötschreck, although I had carefully planned my actions waiting for the >right cards, including prevent, and there was absolutely nothing I could do >except not act at all. No card should be able to do that against a valid >deck (which mine apparently was, given its overall results). Never had two minions, eh? -- Derek a host is a host from coast to coast and no one will talk to a host that's close unless the host that isn't close is busy, hung, or dead

In message <408d6020$0$27983$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>, "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> mumbled something about: > >"johnmeier1" <johnm...@catholic.org> wrote in message >news:2b593401.04042...@posting.google.com... >> > > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be >useful >> > > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) >> > >> > This card completely depends on the number of Gehenna Cards in play. It >> > may be nearly useless, it could make it VERY dangerous to play Gehenna >> > cards. >> >> Actually, isn't this just the perfect card to kill any Shambling >> Hordes decks? Or maybe the ever annoying Nephandus decks? > >for the Shambling hordes, i dougt so : you offer them the opportunity to >discard more shambling hords each turn that they'll ever dream of. Then they >can recruit more. Interestingly, I only ever want to discard that FIRST Horde. Priming the pump, so to speak. After that, I tend to play self-explosive Hordes, so they make their way to the ash heap on a regular basis just from being used up. [ quoted text not captured ]

> >Seriously, I've just had two of my games in a qualifier ruined by > >Rötschreck, although I had carefully planned my actions waiting for the > >right cards, including prevent, and there was absolutely nothing I could do > >except not act at all. No card should be able to do that against a valid > >deck (which mine apparently was, given its overall results). > > Never had two minions, eh? > > -- Derek I've had three minions in both these games (I usually had 4). In the first, my main vamp is torporised on his last action (or my rescue attempt is blocked, don't remember) and I get burned by a fucking Nephandus (there were too many to block and I had a big bleeder on my back). In the second game, I had three minions, and had to get out of torpor 3 times because of that damn card played by a Tzim intercept. So, you see, my incapacity to get vampires out wasn't a factor. -- Orpheus ----------------------- "...Hardestadt continued to drink, until he held nothing but dust in his arms and the burgeoning love of the slaughter in his heart"

In message <408d91d7$0$22874$626a...@news.free.fr>, "Orpheus" <orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> mumbled something about: >> >Seriously, I've just had two of my games in a qualifier ruined by >> >Rötschreck, although I had carefully planned my actions waiting for the >> >right cards, including prevent, and there was absolutely nothing I could >do >> >except not act at all. No card should be able to do that against a valid >> >deck (which mine apparently was, given its overall results). >> >> Never had two minions, eh? >> >> -- Derek > >I've had three minions in both these games (I usually had 4). In the first, >my main vamp is torporised on his last action (or my rescue attempt is >blocked, don't remember) and I get burned by a fucking Nephandus (there were >too many to block and I had a big bleeder on my back). In the second game, I Doesn't matter as far as whether you could block the rest of the actions or not -- your opponent played it well to get your key vampire dead, gone, and make you not a factor. Of course, he's burning vamps backwards (as if he was your predator, you could get a cross-table rescue), which isn't always the brightest maneuver... but you can't legislate against questionable decisions. If it really was a bad decision, you gotta blame the player, not the card. Depending on how badly your key vamp was beating him up, it might've been his only play to kill backwards that way, too. >had three minions, and had to get out of torpor 3 times because of that damn >card played by a Tzim intercept. So you successfully got out of torpor three times, then? Sounds like it slowed you down in that game, but didn't erase you -- and I'm sure at least part of this was because he could only play it once per turn, meaning all he could really do was stick you in torpor and use the stay-tapped feature, not actually ruin your game. I've never had trouble with people trying to use Rotschreck in large numbers (more than 3)... mostly because I guess people realize that piddling away your Master phase against your predator constantly really makes it hard to win. Against your prey is a much better use, but you KNOW your predator is going to pull the rescue, and now you have to go reaching around with Eagle's Sight... *sigh* Just not gonna fly. >So, you see, my incapacity to get vampires out wasn't a factor. Actually, it was. Only three minions (one of whom is an obvious target) is just not going to be enough these days -- you've got to be able to get at least 4, with the threat of 5, or you either won't be around for the endgame, or not a factor once you get there. I don't think I've gotten a Game Win in the last year without at least four minions showing on the table -- size irrelevant. And generally I've had 5+ at the end of the game. Unless you can generate an action advantage somehow, when it comes down to a headsup game, the guy with more minions almost always wins. [ quoted text not captured ]

> I've had three minions in both these games (I usually had 4). In the first, > my main vamp is torporised on his last action (or my rescue attempt is > blocked, don't remember) and I get burned by a fucking Nephandus (there were > too many to block and I had a big bleeder on my back). In the second game, I > had three minions, and had to get out of torpor 3 times because of that damn > card played by a Tzim intercept. > > So, you see, my incapacity to get vampires out wasn't a factor. Well, last gaming Wednesday I swept a table and collected 5 Rötschrecks in the process. ;) I was playing Knights 2.0, my righteous Ventrue Antitribu blocky-brawly, and in the mid-game period I got at least one Rötschrek each round. My (2nd) prey was Tzimisce, and used Rötschreck, plus for convenience had an Ivory Bow on Horatio (acquired from the time when I was still wrestling with my previous prey, Goratrix' friends). Knowing that momentum was my key asset (my guys were pretty rough, meaning that even though I had no stealth to command, I could pretty much get away with getting blocked, plus I had enough Forceds to be able to risk completely tapping out every now and then), I went forward relentlessly each round. I foolishly discarded my first TT before the Tzimmie became my prey. So, my typical turn was along the lines of: 1 bleed, 2 rescue attempts blocked by prey, 1 blocked by predator, 1 succesful. (Yeah, I did have 5 minions, come to think of it...) Of course, getting roughed up in combat was no problem for my guys. However, my prey could not really play his Blood Dolls or other masters. He was slowly dwindling away (partly) because he was using Rötschreck and the game became a sort of stalemate. Rötschreck is potent if it is timed well and you can back it up with some sort of killah combo. Otherwise it is more of a frustration (but takes a high toll on the methuselah who plays it). Also note that you have more than one way to counter Rötschreck. You can generally do it with Celerity, Auspex or Fortitude, and can reduce its threat with stealth (Obfuscate or Obtenebration?) or if eventually eaten, reclaim your guys with Necromancy. Meaning, pretty much every clan has at least something to do with an effect that torporizes you. Bye, Daneel

"David Zopf" <david...@snet.net> wrote in message news:<tU8ic.76$GC5...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>... > "Henrik Klippstr?m" <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:5a3b0aea.04042...@posting.google.com... > > Some thoughts: > > > > Nobody has EVER traded with me for a Crusade or a Praxis Seizure. > > > Have you ever asked? OK, pleeease would you trade some of these from me? Praxis Seizure: Atlanta (JY) Rare JY 1 Praxis Seizure: Boston (JY) Rare JY 1 Praxis Seizure: Chicago (JY) Rare JY 2 Praxis Seizure: Cleveland (JY) Rare JY 2 Praxis Seizure: Dallas (JY) Rare JY 4 Praxis Seizure: Houston (JY) Rare JY 1 Praxis Seizure: Miami (JY) Rare JY 2 Praxis Seizure: Seattle (JY) Rare JY 1 Praxis Seizure: Washington, D.C. (JY) Rare JY 1 Praxis Seizure: Atlanta (VT) Rare VT 3 Praxis Seizure: Boston (VT) Rare VT 2 Praxis Seizure: Cleveland (VT) Rare VT 1 Praxis Seizure: Dallas (VT) Rare VT 1 Praxis Seizure: Houston (VT) Rare VT 2 Praxis Seizure: Miami (VT) Rare VT 1 Praxis Seizure: Washington, D.C. (VT) Rare VT 2 Crusade: Atlanta (SW) Rare SW 1 Crusade: Detroit (SW) Rare SW 1 Crusade: Houston (SW) Rare SW 1 Crusade: New York (SW) Rare SW 1 Crusade: Philadelphia (SW) Rare SW 1 Praxis Seizure: Dallas (CE) Rare CE 1 Praxis Seizure: Amsterdam (DS) Uncommon DS 2 Praxis Seizure: Berlin (DS) Uncommon DS 1 Praxis Seizure: Dublin (DS) Uncommon DS 1 Praxis Seizure: Frankfurt (DS) Uncommon DS 3 Praxis Seizure: Glasgow (DS) Uncommon DS 1 Praxis Seizure: London (DS) Uncommon DS 4 Praxis Seizure: Paris (DS) Uncommon DS 2 Praxis Seizure: Rome (DS) Uncommon DS 1 Praxis Seizure: Stockholm (DS) Uncommon DS 1 Praxis Seizure: Venice (DS) Uncommon DS 2 > > Crusades and PS are only played in lame weenie decks from hell. > > > Patently wrong. So, what (serious) decks use them? ´Cept weenie-voters? > > Crusade cards should be made Uncommon instead of Rare. > > > And take the spot of a vampire, which I might actually want duplicates of? > No thanks, partner. It's back to statistics class for you... Point. That we do not want. But I think the "partner" and "back to statistics class" comments are kind of nasty and not really called for. Add a extra rare or a extra uncommon slot to the boosters?

"Henrik Klippstr?m" <as...@hotmail.com> wrote [ quoted text not captured ] I recently donated about 12 of the above cards to a new player so they could build a weenie vote deck. It was the first deck that player was able to win a game with, as he has very few cards compared to people like myself. The cards I gave him had little value to me, and were sitting in my "to trade" box for years. But seeing his face when he won (after many frustrating losses) and knowing that he would keep playing the game... that's "value" too in my books. He even gave me a $15 book certificate as a way of saying thanks :) Unfortunately, that player has now left Windsor to move back to the Winnipeg area. So if any of you Manitoba boys are listening, I'll give you his email address so you can also have the pleasure of facing his weenie politics deck. Be nice! Cheers, WES

> Sure. So, we have to play these in each of our decks just to counter > Rötbeurk, as we have to play For just to avoid Kiss of Râ and Camarilla just > against PTO and J:CS ? I was just listing a few of the obvious options VS Rötschreck. I personnally do not find Rötschreck as annoying as PTO for instance. If you have enough stealth you can easely rescue your vamp or can eventually count on a cross-table rescue. > Seriously, I've just had two of my games in a qualifier ruined by Rötschreck, ...and I had some tournament games ruined by PTO (Cailean and Goratrix vaporized...). > Orpheus, hating the "you lose" cards. I don't either. JPh

> Slaughterhouse is a 'useless' card that's been the centerpiece of > decks winning tourneys in this part of the world, for whatever that's > worth. Sorry, I never saw any of those deck working (neither in our play group nor in any tournament I attended in Austria). If you have the listing of one of those winning decks I would be glad to try it myself. Jean-Philippe

Jean-Philippe wrote: > If you have the listing of one of those winning decks I would be glad to try > it myself. Here's one with which I won a tournament in Washington, DC. There were only nine players, so no TWD, but some of those nine players are the best in the game (i.e. the environment was competitive IMO). http://bluedevilvtes.tripod.com/brinks2.txt __ David Cherryholmes

"David Cherryholmes" <david.che...@duke.edu> wrote in message news:c6m43t$dokls$1...@ID-209231.news.uni-berlin.de... [ quoted text not captured ] I just though I'd share, despite the obvious origin, that for some reason I always read this URL as 'Blued, Evil, VTES' *shrug* An odd brain twist... DZ AW

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:<408e65c4$0$8840$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... [ quoted text not captured ] Ask Cameron (who's posted a separate reply in this thread) as he's had the most success with them in the area. -John Flournoy

"Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message news:<408e65c4$0$8840$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... [ quoted text not captured ] 2 unique tournement winning versions: David Cherryholmes http://www.thepathofblood.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=838 Mine http://www.thepathofblood.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=843 enjoy

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:<2004042312...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>... > I find it amusing that there was no comment in this email about > yet-another-sucky-Anarch-3-way. Clearly their reputation has grown. > > > - Anthelios (beside being played in deck based on Anson and master phase > > orgies I don't see where it could be useful) > > Maybe you draw a hunting ground when you were short on pool and want to > trade it for a minion tap. Maybe your prey or predator is master-heavy and > you need to recycle a Sudden Reversal to survive. Maybe you just want > everyone to KNOW you have a Sudden Reversal in your hand. > good card, (not super, plain good), too bad i have a hard time finding any of the mentioned magazines, here in Greece, that give it for free. > > - Siphon (do you often see vamps in torpor with blood on them?) > > Baltimore Purge. Aggropoke. > completely useless card, why play siphon when you can graverob or diablerize the torporous vampires ? correct, no reason. So, i believe siphon will be the "Zillah's tears" of Gehenna expansion. another completely useless card. > > - Black Hand Ritual (limited even for a black hand deck) > > Untapping your other vampires with stealth is always useful. And the > secondary effect is important. Whenever a game introduces something brand > new, it is Standard Operating Procedure to introduce a few counter cards. > i agree completely. > > - The path of Lilith (why should I play that card instead of Fame?) > > You shouldn't. But you SHOULD play both. > very good card, better than Fame. I have seen Fame oust the player who played it or some other than the prey of his, numerous times. with path of Lilith you can "control" who burns the pool and the effect lasts as long as you keep the card in play. A Tzimisce card. > > - Nightmare upon Nightmares (needs lot of Gehenna cards in play to be useful > > and Slaughter House already shown the power of discard in Jyhad) > > This card completely depends on the number of Gehenna Cards in play. It > may be nearly useless, it could make it VERY dangerous to play Gehenna > cards. > very good card, an additional countermeasure against winnie decks. It can devastate them. Remember that you can play a Gehenna card every discard phase instead of discarding. I just hope there are about 10 different gehenna cards in Gehenna Expansion. > > - Crusade Berlin (cool artwork but beside that...) > > > > Aren't there always people who bitch and moan about the artwork? Isn't it > nice to know that there's good artwork in this set, even on so-called > useless cards? > > None of these are cards to build your deck around (except maybe NUN). They > are, however, additive to existing strategies, which is the main purpose > of an expansion, particularly the preview. It is not useless, crusades are always welcome especially when the art is of the high standard of Crusade Berlin. Nice to know that my Lasombra can finally claim Berlin as their own! I am bored of hearing bitching about Crusades and Praxis Seizures being R. I have traded a lot of Crusades and Praxis Seizures for other Crusades or Praxis Seizures i didn't have. There cards in vtes that are more useless than Crusades. Crusades and Praxis S. should remain R. Another great subject of discussion, in my opinion, is why i get to have 4 Detections and only 1 Warghoul. They are both R. Placing crusade Berlin in the previews was a bad choice, though. All jyhad players wait for the previews with anxiety, they could show as the great art of the Crusade Berlin instead of showing the great power of Siphon (lol). Seeing Crusade: berlin announced in the Checklist would be enough. Dive into Madenss, a super good card. i love it. Finally, i believe that the vampires are good. i will hate to see many low cap vampires though.

geo...@for.auth.gr (Jyhad_addict) wrote in message news:<c6a50f81.04042...@posting.google.com>... > Gregory Stuart Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:<2004042312...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>... . So, i believe > siphon will be the "Zillah's tears" of Gehenna expansion. another > completely useless card. You don't like Zillah's Tears? I think it is ok actually. One of those lay low until you can oust cards. I know decks that don't want to be doing a whole lot (getting too much attention) in the first few turns. This is a hunt without tapping basically in the first turn you play it, and a freak if you didn't burn it during the first following round. W

"Cameron" <orcao...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:a1e26d99.04042...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] And here I thought players won the tournements! I learn something every day! Whee More seriously, 3 tournements is nothing. If you take a quick look at what is happening on the tourny front, you will see that we have world wide 3 tournements every week, thats a good 150+ a year. winning 3 is about 2% victory rating, and I'd suppose that 2% is being rather generous. Compare that to say Govern the Unaligned. How many winning decks have utilized that card. Raille

>More seriously, 3 tournements is nothing. If you take a quick look at what >is happening on the tourny front, you will see that we have world wide 3 >tournements every week, thats a good 150+ a year. winning 3 is about 2% >victory rating, and I'd suppose that 2% is being rather generous. > >Compare that to say Govern the Unaligned. How many winning decks have >utilized that card. I wouldn't say it's nothing. There are plenty of cards that either never see play or don't see play in winning decks. Having said that, I'm concerned with certain biases in statistics. One that hardly ever gets mentioned when talking about winning decks has to do with the frequency of play of one specific deck. Let's say someone plays a deck once and wins with it. Fluke? Entirely possible. But, let's compare to the situation where someone keeps playing a particular deck/archetype until the player wins with it. In the absence of other data to suggest that one deck is better, wouldn't the "1 for 1" be more impressive than the "1 for 2+"? Getting away from the frequency of play issue, as, this isn't the case with Cameron and Slaughterhouse decks. But, couldn't it be the case that Cameron is a superior player? Plays a particular style of deck that only works in his hands? Etc.? I guess what I'm getting at is that it's hard to make the argument to me that something is good when there's a lack of back up in the form of other people's success or in the form of "I played this a couple of times and had no problem winning" or in the form of "after playing this, I see what you mean" (the last is, of course, my issue and not someone else's but I only play so many games and can't get to everything). I could see the possibility that the view is correct and the argument is just the problem. I certainly form opinions based on my own experiences that aren't widely held.

"Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<18d84559b3808238...@news.teranews.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] There's a difference between a deck that 'utilizes' a card and a deck that is designed to win by virtue of a single specific card (or pair of cards, as we're really talking Slaughterhouse/Brinksmanship). A sizable majority of tournament decks utilize Blood Doll. None of those decks would be described by their creators as a 'Blood Doll deck' when telling you how they won. Very few people would describe the appropriate deck as a "Govern deck" as opposed to a "Dominate Bleed" deck. And Cameron's (and my) point was that he'd won three tournaments _in a localized area_ within the last year using Slaughterhouse; while three tournaments are insignificant compared to the worldwide total, other people have also won using this strategy elsewhere (like David Cherryholmes has pointed out.) Cameron's gotten three tournament wins out of significantly less than 'a good 150+' tournaments available to him. Which should serve as suitable rebuttal to 'Slaughterhouse is a useless card'. Nobody has saying "Slaughterhouse is better than Govern", so please stop the adding to the extremely tiresome newsgroup-wide gripes about Govern, since it is _entirely_ off-topic here. > Raille -John -John Flournoy

Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote in message news:<44a2da05.04042...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Well, its requirement is to hunt. I rarely hunt, if i don't hunt a lot it is more likely that i won't have it in my hand when i will want to hunt. i don't want to end up hunting just to get the card out of my hand and if i hunt a lot it means that i don't have an efficient way to gain blood for my vampires or nothing better to do. Both are not good. In a few words i don't believe that i need a card to do a default action (hunt). For untaping purposes i can always use "eternal vigilance", which is way better. I don't think i'll ever need it for any deck. But this is just my opinion.

"XZealot" <nbr...@rapidretailsolutions.com> wrote in message news:<c6bhpo$a983m$1...@ID-224942.news.uni-berlin.de>... > Just to let you know. Also Nagaraja has posted similar thoughts to what I > am about to reiterate. > > > This card is my personal nightmare. It Stacks! Round 1 put 1 in play. > Round 2 burn a card for each 1 cap you untap, play 2nd Nightmare upon > Nightmares. Round 3 burn 2 cards for each 1-2 cap you untap, play 3rd > Nightmare upon nightmares. Round 4 burn 3 cards for each 1-3 cap you untap. > play 4th Nightmare upon Nightmare. Round 5 burn 4 cards for each 1-4 cap > you untap, play 5th Nightmare upon Nightmares. > Exactly!!! this is why i have already said, among others, that it is a very powerful card. It is rare, but you can always use sibyl's tongues to retrieve it. It can be burned only by black hand ritual (the fact that black hand ritual can burn nightmare upon nightmares makes it a good card, it stacks! and it is a gehenna card. You can play with high cap minions to avoid the consequences, or use it in an intercept deck along with many untaps or eternal vigilance. this card will eventualy be the ultimate nightmare of any winnie deck. Imagine 2 decks on the same table playing 4-5 each...

cur...@aol.commetal (Curevei) wrote in message news:<20040428123735...@mb-m01.aol.com>... > >More seriously, 3 tournements is nothing. If you take a quick look at what > >is happening on the tourny front, you will see that we have world wide 3 > >tournements every week, thats a good 150+ a year. winning 3 is about 2% > >victory rating, and I'd suppose that 2% is being rather generous. > > > >Compare that to say Govern the Unaligned. How many winning decks have > >utilized that card. > > I wouldn't say it's nothing. There are plenty of cards that either never see > play or don't see play in winning decks. Agreed, Slaughterhouse is now better than Chainsaw. > Having said that, I'm concerned with certain biases in statistics. One that > hardly ever gets mentioned when talking about winning decks has to do with the > frequency of play of one specific deck. Personal statistics with the deck: played in 4 or 5 tournements, won 3 (four including a weird ally type tournement). Cherryholmes has also won a tournement with this type of deck once. > Let's say someone plays a deck once and wins with it. Fluke? Entirely > possible. But, let's compare to the situation where someone keeps playing a > particular deck/archetype until the player wins with it. In the absence of > other data to suggest that one deck is better, wouldn't the "1 for 1" be more > impressive than the "1 for 2+"? Yeah, I do play it a bit, but it is by no means the deck that I have honed to perfection through a century of study with Pei Mei. > Getting away from the frequency of play issue, as, this isn't the case with > Cameron and Slaughterhouse decks. But, couldn't it be the case that Cameron is > a superior player? Plays a particular style of deck that only works in his > hands? Etc.? I'd agree but as I mentioned David's done it too... so I guess the two of use are superior players. There, now it's not self congradulation. > I guess what I'm getting at is that it's hard to make the argument to me that > something is good when there's a lack of back up in the form of other people's > success or in the form of "I played this a couple of times and had no problem > winning" or in the form of "after playing this, I see what you mean" (the last > is, of course, my issue and not someone else's but I only play so many games > and can't get to everything). I could see the possibility that the view is > correct and the argument is just the problem. I certainly form opinions based > on my own experiences that aren't widely held. I'm not totally sure what you're saying, but of the times I've played this deck it has included rounds and finals against very good opponents. I know David's experiance in D.C. wasn't a walkover either. So they have been tested well. Of course they've also fallen flat on their faces. Arika for a predator hurts... But later in the thread I linked to the decks, so people can make them and try themselves. Cameron

"Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<18d84559b3808238...@news.teranews.com>... > "Cameron" <orcao...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:a1e26d99.04042...@posting.google.com... > > "Jean-Philippe" <jean-phili...@joanneum.at> wrote in message > news:<408ccd3f$0$13326$3b21...@aconews.univie.ac.at>... > > > > > > > you're wrong I guess. Horribly powerful card. > > > > > > I maybe wrong but I can't imagine this card working. I just remember the > > > hype about Slaughter House and it turned out to be a useless card. > > > > > > Jean-Philippe > > > > a useless card that's won me three tournements... I'm going with Naga on > this one. > > And here I thought players won the tournements! I learn something every > day! Whee Just trying to help. > More seriously, 3 tournements is nothing. If you take a quick look at what > is happening on the tourny front, you will see that we have world wide 3 > tournements every week, thats a good 150+ a year. winning 3 is about 2% > victory rating, and I'd suppose that 2% is being rather generous. Thanks for that... I'm not trying to say the card is the second coming of RtI. Or that three tournements should be seen as the end all and be all of V:TES success. But it isn't "a useless card" if I can build decks around it that win tournements. > Compare that to say Govern the Unaligned. How many winning decks have > utilized that card. Well, the last iteration of my Slaughterhouse deck, for one. GtU is the best card in the game. SH is a playable, workable card. Nothing more, but certianly nothing less. Cameron

Jyhad_addict wrote: > very powerful card. It is rare, but you can always use sibyl's tongues > to retrieve it. It can be burned only by black hand ritual (the fact > that black hand ritual can burn nightmare upon nightmares makes it a > good card, it stacks! and it is a gehenna card. You can play with high > cap minions to avoid the consequences, or use it in an intercept deck > along with many untaps or eternal vigilance. > this card will eventualy be the ultimate nightmare of any winnie deck. > Imagine 2 decks on the same table playing 4-5 each... Event cards cannot stack (or be usefully retrieved after being burned), since they can only be played once (each) in a game. See the rules for event cards. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

geo...@for.auth.gr (Jyhad_addict) wrote in message news:<c6a50f81.0404...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] When you can play eternal vigilance, that is way better...but not all decks can. I've played with the cards in last draft tournament. They were equivalent to drawing 5 wakes. I "could" untap and block that action with my 2 gunned guys, that meant free actions for about 5 turns or so... Ofcourse that was draft...but i intend to use it in a Antiventrue deck, all the deck does is stay alive, govern at superior, deflect and prevent and get some tears, until my prey has a lot of tapped vampires. Then i will tap the troublemaker, play a pentex increase my handsize by 3(dreams and Neally) (cycle to more useful cards by using Katherine, Blackhorse and barrens) and go for the oust. I think it is very usefull in those kind of decks...If not used in the same turn, it is a wake OR a freak just as you need... W

"John Flournoy" <flou...@rcn.com> wrote in message news:57327a82.04042...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I didn't mean to add anything to the "I don't like DOM" threads. However I did seem to miss the fact Cameron, individually, has won 3 with his deck. That is a far more statistically significant that a blanket statement that 3 wins were made in the general pool. Maybe I should build a weenie Blood Dolls Deck, just blood dolls and a crypt of 90 small cap vampires to utilize them. Should be simple enough for even me to put together. :) uhm. Addenda: Need to trade for Blood Dolls! Raille

> Maybe I should build a weenie Blood Dolls Deck, just blood dolls and a crypt > of 90 small cap vampires to utilize them. Should be simple enough for even > me to put together. :) Or 45 Blood Dolls and 45 Life in the Cities! > uhm. > > Addenda: > Need to trade for Blood Dolls! > > Raille -John Flournoy

On 3 May 2004 11:20:24 -0700, flou...@rcn.com (John Flournoy) wrote: >> Maybe I should build a weenie Blood Dolls Deck, just blood dolls and a crypt >> of 90 small cap vampires to utilize them. Should be simple enough for even >> me to put together. :) > >Or 45 Blood Dolls and 45 Life in the Cities! Wouldn't 40 BD, 40 LitC, and 10 Parthenons go better? 90 master Cards, at only 1 a turn, would go pretty slow. Morgan Vening

"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:mv3e901als6c74jm3...@4ax.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I got to rethinking the whole theme. Its probably better to shoot for a 60 card deck. Even with a Parthenon, can you really expect to play 60 masters in a game? Raille

[ quoted text not captured ] If you have a Parthenon in your opening hand, sure, why not. First turn, Parthenon, Influence out 2 Vampires. 2nd turn, 2xBlood Doll, LitC, discard any excess Parthenons. 3rd turn, etc. repeat. You should be able to offload 3 cards minimum a turn. That's only 30 turns... Except you can't speed up the Trifles. Maybe dump 15 LitC for Ascendence, or an Investment. Or include some Information Highways (you should be able to come close to influencing out a vampire every turn, if you keep to Cap 2 or less. Maybe sneak in a few Sunset strips. Ok, this is getting out of hand now. Morgan Vening

Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<mv3e901als6c74jm3...@4ax.com>... > On 3 May 2004 11:20:24 -0700, flou...@rcn.com (John Flournoy) wrote: > > >> Maybe I should build a weenie Blood Dolls Deck, just blood dolls and a crypt > >> of 90 small cap vampires to utilize them. Should be simple enough for even > >> me to put together. :) > > > >Or 45 Blood Dolls and 45 Life in the Cities! > > Wouldn't 40 BD, 40 LitC, and 10 Parthenons go better? 90 master Cards, > at only 1 a turn, would go pretty slow. > > Morgan Vening Sure, and it'd be even better to add Info Highways and Computer Hacks and and and. But that's just diluting the simple absurdity of the idea! Don't bring your alien concepts like 'logic' and 'improving a deck' into the discussion! :P -John Flournoy

Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<4p8f90h9n7rac3no0...@4ax.com>... > On Tue, 04 May 2004 13:03:42 GMT, "Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message > >news:mv3e901als6c74jm3...@4ax.com... > >> On 3 May 2004 11:20:24 -0700, flou...@rcn.com (John Flournoy) wrote: > >> > >> >> Maybe I should build a weenie Blood Dolls Deck, just blood dolls and a > crypt > >> >> of 90 small cap vampires to utilize them. Should be simple enough for > even > >> >> me to put together. :) > >> > > >> >Or 45 Blood Dolls and 45 Life in the Cities! > >> > >> Wouldn't 40 BD, 40 LitC, and 10 Parthenons go better? 90 master Cards, > >> at only 1 a turn, would go pretty slow. > > > >I got to rethinking the whole theme. > > > >Its probably better to shoot for a 60 card deck. Even with a Parthenon, can > >you really expect to play 60 masters in a game? > > If you have a Parthenon in your opening hand, sure, why not. > > First turn, Parthenon, Influence out 2 Vampires. > 2nd turn, 2xBlood Doll, LitC, discard any excess Parthenons. > 3rd turn, etc. repeat. > > You should be able to offload 3 cards minimum a turn. That's only 30 > turns... Except you can't speed up the Trifles. Maybe dump 15 LitC for > Ascendence, or an Investment. Or include some Information Highways > (you should be able to come close to influencing out a vampire every > turn, if you keep to Cap 2 or less. Maybe sneak in a few Sunset > strips. Ok, this is getting out of hand now. What's our goal with this deck? Outnumber our opponents with actual vampires from our crypt + pool gain? How do we oust? One bleeds (don't under estimate the srength of the one bleed man)? ~SV

"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f987c6cd.04050...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] You just tool up the crypt until you have 15-20 minions and then they all bleed for 1 each. Looking to maybe play this deck this week. If I'm lucky that is. Raille

Well, you now have something lamer than a crused : eight crusades. Though I can understand the role of two or three crusades in the new set, 8 new ones is just insulting buyers. Do you really think we really need eight deifferent crusades now ?

"Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8bc9977686e3f421...@news.teranews.com>... > You just tool up the crypt until you have 15-20 minions and then they all > bleed for 1 each. > > Looking to maybe play this deck this week. If I'm lucky that is. Agreed. Let me know how you do. I'll be playing it today (if I can scrounge up that many Blood Dolls... I'll have to deconstruct five decks or so...). ~SV