We had a situation come up in game last night wherein a Cybel wall was
firing reaction cards around like crazy. We had to slow him down
because it didn't seem correct. We ruled that after Bloodstorm of
Chorazin is played no other reactions can be played.
1) Specifically, a Cat's Guidance was the attempted reaction. It cannot
be played, correct?
2) Does Cybel flat-out not have a window to play Extortion with
Bloodstorm then?
It was a nasty idea. They let me oust it before they killed me...
Cardname: Bloodstorm of Chorazin
Cardtype: Reaction
Set: KMW
Clan: Baali
Attribute: Burnable
Cardtext: Only usable when a Baali successfully blocks an ally or a
younger vampire.
Tap this Baali and end the action (with no combat). This Baali inflicts
1 unpreventable damage on the acting minion and each of his or her
retainers.
Cardname: Cats' Guidance
Cardtype: Reaction
Set: CE, FN, Jyhad, Sabbat, SW, VTES, Anarchs, BH, LoB
Cardtext: [ani] Only usable by a tapped vampire immediately after he or
she blocks (play after combat, if any). Untap this reacting vampire.
[ANI] +1 intercept.
Cardname: Extortion
Cardtype: Reaction
Set: FN
Cost: 1 blood
Cardtext: Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks (play after
combat, if any). Usable by a tapped vampire.
[ser] Put this card on the acting minion. The minion with this card
burns an additional blood to untap during his or her untap phase. A
Methuselah can burn the Edge to burn all Extortion cards he or she has.
[SER] The acting minion's controller takes control of this card (put
this card in play). The controller of this card burns 1 pool during his
or her untap phase. He or she can burn the Edge to burn all Extortion
cards he or she has.
-Merlin
Seems like you were unfair to the Cybel wall player. Both Extortion and
Cat's Guidance are used at the end of an action (after combat, if any)
so the deck concept seems solid.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Merlin wrote:
> We had a situation come up in game last night wherein a Cybel wall was
> firing reaction cards around like crazy. We had to slow him down
> because it didn't seem correct. We ruled that after Bloodstorm of
> Chorazin is played no other reactions can be played.
>
> 1) Specifically, a Cat's Guidance was the attempted reaction. It cannot
> be played, correct?
Correct. Reaction cards can only be played during actions.
> 2) Does Cybel flat-out not have a window to play Extortion with
> Bloodstorm then?
She does not, unless she's blocking a vampire leaving torpor (or some
other situation that has a block which doesn't default to block-combat).
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:1150294505.5...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
That's because Extortion also says to play itself after a successful block,
and has text specifying "after combat, if any", so could be played before
Bloodstorm if you're blocking but not going to combat?
So Cat's Guidance could be played in the same way before Bloodstorm when
blocking a vampire leaving torpor, yes? "Only usable by a tapped vampire
immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any)."
Josh
death of a thousand cats
Joshua Duffin wrote:
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message> > Merlin wrote:
> >> We had a situation come up in game last night wherein a Cybel wall was
> >> firing reaction cards around like crazy. We had to slow him down
> >> because it didn't seem correct. We ruled that after Bloodstorm of
> >> Chorazin is played no other reactions can be played.
> >>
> >> 1) Specifically, a Cat's Guidance was the attempted reaction. It cannot
> >> be played, correct?
> >
> > Correct. Reaction cards can only be played during actions.
> >
> >> 2) Does Cybel flat-out not have a window to play Extortion with
> >> Bloodstorm then?
> >
> > She does not, unless she's blocking a vampire leaving torpor (or some
> > other situation that has a block which doesn't default to block-combat).
>
> That's because Extortion also says to play itself after a successful block,
> and has text specifying "after combat, if any", so could be played before
> Bloodstorm if you're blocking but not going to combat?
Correct.
> So Cat's Guidance could be played in the same way before Bloodstorm when
> blocking a vampire leaving torpor, yes? "Only usable by a tapped vampire
> immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any)."
Sure. (Note that that's different than the CG question above).
LSJ wrote:
> Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > That's because Extortion also says to play itself after a successful block,
> > and has text specifying "after combat, if any", so could be played before
> > Bloodstorm if you're blocking but not going to combat?
>
> Correct.
>
> > So Cat's Guidance could be played in the same way before Bloodstorm when
> > blocking a vampire leaving torpor, yes? "Only usable by a tapped vampire
> > immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any)."
>
> Sure. (Note that that's different than the CG question above).
How are you going to know there will be no combat if Bloodstorm hasn't
yet been played.
The rules explicitly state you cannot reveal your hand to another
Methuselah (unless by card text) and if someone were to DI the
Bloodstorm after the CG or Extortion, then combat would take place,
meaning the CG/Extortion had been played at the wrong time.
This would be great to know, as it could allow many loopholes :)
Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
Slytherin wrote:
> How are you going to know there will be no combat if Bloodstorm hasn't
> yet been played.
You don't. You can't. And you don't have to.
You merely have to know if combat is the default result of the block in
question.
See the original answer given in this thread.
> The rules explicitly state you cannot reveal your hand to another
> Methuselah (unless by card text) and if someone were to DI the
> Bloodstorm after the CG or Extortion, then combat would take place,
> meaning the CG/Extortion had been played at the wrong time.
>
> This would be great to know, as it could allow many loopholes :)
The loopholes that follow from other answers are exactly why the answer
is as it is.
Slytherin wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
> > Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > > That's because Extortion also says to play itself after a successful block,
> > > and has text specifying "after combat, if any", so could be played before
> > > Bloodstorm if you're blocking but not going to combat?
> >
> > Correct.
> >
> > > So Cat's Guidance could be played in the same way before Bloodstorm when
> > > blocking a vampire leaving torpor, yes? "Only usable by a tapped vampire
> > > immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any)."
> >
> > Sure. (Note that that's different than the CG question above).
>
> How are you going to know there will be no combat if Bloodstorm hasn't
> yet been played.
Because when you block a vampire from leaving torpor, there is NEVER a
combat - it doesn't matter if CG or Extortion or Bloodstorm is or is
going to be played.
The key point is that the above is talking about those cases where no
combat can occur - i.e. 'if you're blocking but not going to combat'.
(I suppose the same would hold true if a vampire were blocked while
controlling Millicent Smith - no combat will occur regardless of card
play once the block is successful.)
> The rules explicitly state you cannot reveal your hand to another
> Methuselah (unless by card text) and if someone were to DI the
> Bloodstorm after the CG or Extortion, then combat would take place,
> meaning the CG/Extortion had been played at the wrong time.
>
> This would be great to know, as it could allow many loopholes :)
Moot point.
> Andy
> VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
-John Flournoy
[ quoted text not captured ]
So you cannot play extortion after blood storms? their was no combat
but extortion says their does not have to be. or is simply because the
action is haulted and their is no oppertunity to play extortion I do
not understand????
smithheroldson wrote:
> So you cannot play extortion after blood storms? their was no combat
> but extortion says their does not have to be. or is simply because the
> action is haulted and their is no oppertunity to play extortion I do
> not understand????
The key text to consider on Bloodstorm is "end the action". Since
reaction cards can only be played during an action, Bloodstorm will be
the last reaction played.
This logic would negate the window for Freak Drive/Forced March as
well, yes?
[ quoted text not captured ]
If the acting player had declined to play them earlier, yes (since
acting minion has first shot at playing cards).
Actually, that's kinda cool. The acting player usually has to wait until
after combat to play Freak/Forced March, so they decline to play
anything at the successful block, then your reacting Baali kicks up a
storm, and they're not allowed to play it as there is no longer an
action. Hahahaha, sucks to have traded for all those Freak Drives now,
huh? Oh wait, that was Cam Ed. Still funny though.
--
salem
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/vtes/
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
"Salem" <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4492...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Wookie813 wrote:>> smithheroldson wrote:
>>>>> So you cannot play extortion after blood storms? their was no combat
>>> but extortion says their does not have to be. or is simply because the
>>> action is haulted and their is no oppertunity to play extortion I do
>>> not understand????>>
>> The key text to consider on Bloodstorm is "end the action". Since
>> reaction cards can only be played during an action, Bloodstorm will be
>> the last reaction played.
>>
>> This logic would negate the window for Freak Drive/Forced March as
>> well, yes?>
> If the acting player had declined to play them earlier, yes (since acting
> minion has first shot at playing cards).
The acting player can pretty much never Freak Drive/Forced March
pre-Bloodstorm, can they? Bloodstorm is before the block-combat, while, as
you said, Freak Drive and Forced March are played after combat. Since
Bloodstorm ends the action, neither reactions nor action modifiers can be
played once Bloodstorm has been played.
You wouldn't think this would have taken so many posts to clarify, it seems
like a pretty straightforward interaction. :-)
Josh
confusing the issue, and himself
Joshua Duffin wrote:
> "Salem" <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4492...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...>> Wookie813 wrote:>>> smithheroldson wrote:
>>>>>>> So you cannot play extortion after blood storms? their was no combat
>>>> but extortion says their does not have to be. or is simply because the
>>>> action is haulted and their is no oppertunity to play extortion I do
>>>> not understand????>>>
>>> The key text to consider on Bloodstorm is "end the action". Since
>>> reaction cards can only be played during an action, Bloodstorm will be
>>> the last reaction played.
>>>
>>> This logic would negate the window for Freak Drive/Forced March as
>>> well, yes?>>
>> If the acting player had declined to play them earlier, yes (since acting
>> minion has first shot at playing cards).>
> The acting player can pretty much never Freak Drive/Forced March
> pre-Bloodstorm, can they?
when something else gets played that would negate the block-combat but
have the action be about to end?
umm...yeah, I got nothin'.
> Bloodstorm is before the block-combat, while, as
> you said, Freak Drive and Forced March are played after combat. Since
> Bloodstorm ends the action, neither reactions nor action modifiers can be
> played once Bloodstorm has been played.
>
> You wouldn't think this would have taken so many posts to clarify, it seems
> like a pretty straightforward interaction. :-)
HEADLINE:
Baali intercept decks to ruin V:TES!
Players quit in droves over game's "degeneration".
[ quoted text not captured ]
Joshua Duffin wrote:
> >> This logic would negate the window for Freak Drive/Forced March as
> >> well, yes?
> >
> > If the acting player had declined to play them earlier, yes (since acting
> > minion has first shot at playing cards).
>
> The acting player can pretty much never Freak Drive/Forced March
> pre-Bloodstorm, can they? Bloodstorm is before the block-combat, while, as
> you said, Freak Drive and Forced March are played after combat. Since
> Bloodstorm ends the action, neither reactions nor action modifiers can be
> played once Bloodstorm has been played.
So Obedience works the same way? No Freak Drive/Force March afterwards?
Can
Arika be any stronger!?! Don't have the cards in front of me but Monger
shows Obedience to have the same text (end the action) as opposed to
Voice of Madness which only states 'combat does not occur'.
"Robert Scythe" <rob...@exploretalent.com> wrote in message
news:1150474358....@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Correct. Obedience ends the action immediately when played, and Freak Drive
cannot be played afterward. LSJ 26-Sep-2004:
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/845ed84b373591d9
Voice of Madness, as you say, is probably different, because it does not
have text specifically ending the action, but only making combat not occur
after the successful block:
"Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger
vampire.
[dem] Tap this reacting vampire. Combat does not occur.
[DEM] As above, and the acting minion burns 1 blood or life."
Josh
arika can always be stronger