Golden Tenets

I just need some clarification of the votes aspect of the GT: Can I use different votes during the same vote (i.e. the vote is KRC, I throw down a domain challenge, archon, and parity shift to try to help it out)? Or is it that the vote is KRC, and then I can throw the domain challenge and that's it. This is of course not counting votes on the table and action modifiers/reactions. If it is the latter, then I agree with another poster that this really weakens vote decks which do not use presence. I would really like to get a good clarification (L. Scott? Corrupter? Anyone?) so that I can get my two groups to change from 4CL to NL/GT. Incidentally, I would also be intrested in the World of Darkness reason for both the GT's, if there is one. Thanks for any info/response. Chris ino...@ix.netcom.com

[ quoted text not captured ] > Chris > ino...@ix.netcom.com Ok ok... Votes... My fav decks... Too much power (gnyark gnyark gnyark). People contesting. Had to have "official" confirmation of my interpretation. Had it. Firts. Your vamp makes an action. Kine ress cont. Not blocked. One vote. Your card goes in the ash heap. Draw a card. Now it is "during a political action". You can burn your votes for their "worth one vote" DO NOT REPLACE THEM until the votes passes or is declared as a flop. (again: the vote you "cast" with your vampire, you replace; the others your burn for their vote: YOU DONT). All reactions and modifiers are replaced. These replaced cards, if they are votes, can still be burned for votes. I hope i did answer your question. Patrick Drapeau Quebec

In article <darm-21079...@ts3-13.f009.quebectel.com>, Stephane Doiron <da...@quebectel.com> wrote: > >> I just need some clarification of the votes aspect of the GT: Can I use > >Ok ok... Votes... My fav decks... Too much power (gnyark gnyark gnyark). >People contesting. Had to have "official" confirmation of my >interpretation. Had it. > >Firts. Your vamp makes an action. Kine ress cont. Not blocked. One vote. >Your card goes in the ash heap. Draw a card. Now it is "during a political >action". You can burn your votes for their "worth one vote" DO NOT REPLACE Actually, the question referred to the "Golden Tenet" of "No vote pushing" You are describing (almost) the official "Vote Pushing" rule. >THEM until the votes passes or is declared as a flop. (again: the vote >you "cast" with your vampire, you replace; the others your burn for their >vote: YOU DONT). All reactions and modifiers are replaced. These replaced >cards, if they are votes, can still be burned for votes. I hope i did >answer your question. Action modifiers and reaction cards are also NOT replaced until the end of the voting process, WotC phone support notwithstanding (They are correct less frequently than 18th century weathermen): ---------- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: [VtES][PR] Full Rulebook, 1 of 2 Date: 30 Sep 1995 01:42:50 GMT Message-ID: <44i7aq$8...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>Any Methuselah can burn extra political cards for extra votes. Each burned >>political card is worth one vote. If you burn an extra political card, >>ignore the effects printed on the card and throw it into your ash heap. You >>can't, however, draw new cards until the political action is finished. >This unfortunate wording makes it easy to miss the fact that Action Modifiers >and Reaction cards cannot be replaced. Hm, probably so. >(You do mean that *no* cards can be replaced, right? Not just that PAs burned >for votes may not be replaced?) Right. ----------

In article <darm-21079...@ts3-13.f009.quebectel.com>, da...@quebectel.com (Stephane Doiron) writes: > Your vamp makes an action. Kine ress cont. Not blocked. One vote. >Your card goes in the ash heap. Draw a card. Now it is "during a political >action". You can burn your votes for their "worth one vote" DO NOT REPLACE >THEM until the votes passes or is declared as a flop. (again: the vote >you "cast" with your vampire, you replace; the others your burn for their >vote: YOU DONT). All reactions and modifiers are replaced. These replaced >cards, if they are votes, can still be burned for votes. I hope i did >answer your question. > > This is the GT rule? I thought you couldn't use other vote cards from your hand with GT. Is that SP? I'm trying to find out the differences between GT and SP. Can you help? Thank you in advance for your responces. Rich Take life with a grain of salt.

In article <4ssf01$i...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, Chris Shorb <ino...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >I just need some clarification of the votes aspect of the GT: Can I use >different votes during the same vote (i.e. the vote is KRC, I throw >down a domain challenge, archon, and parity shift to try to help it >out)? Or is it that the vote is KRC, and then I can throw the domain >challenge and that's it. This is of course not counting votes on the >table and action modifiers/reactions. If it is the latter, then I >agree with another poster that this really weakens vote decks which do >not use presence. Neither. If you use KRC to call the vote, then that KRC is your one PA card. Each Methuselah can only gain one vote through PA cards - all other votes must come from other sources. It weakens non-presence vote decks the same way that "you cannot use the +1 stealth from action cards (like PAs) to gain stealth on other actions" really weakens non-obfuscate bleed decks. That is, the weakness comes from a lack of skill, and is justifiable. If everyone could run around bleeding at stealth, why use obfuscate? If everyone can call a vote and toss in seven extra votes at will, why use presence? >I would really like to get a good clarification (L. Scott? Corrupter? >Anyone?) so that I can get my two groups to change from 4CL to NL/GT. >Incidentally, I would also be intrested in the World of Darkness reason >for both the GT's, if there is one. The WoD reason for no vote pushing is (to me) that the PA card represents the Methuselah making her own opinion known to the other Meth's. Making it known more often (with additional PAs) won't improve her position. "No Vote Push" was derived from the original Jyhad rules - the only way to read the Politics section without typos. The Rules Team has other ideas, so the original rules have become house rules. ----- As far as "no repeat actions", that has no WoD basis, AFAIK. It was adopted soley to ward off degenerate decks. With the new cards (DS, AH), however, our play group has abandoned this limitation - which made some of the new cards too underpowered. To handle the degeneracy that prompted the original rule, however, we play with "5th Tradition cannot target the acting vampire", and "All Strike: Combat Ends cards that also untap a vampire have a delayed untap effect instead: the vampire untaps only as soon as it is not his controller's turn (immediately if the combat occured on some else's turn, or at the end of the turn if it occured on his controller's turn). This also has no WoD basis, and is simply an attempt to curtail degeneracy.

On 22 Jul 1996, Lion RAR wrote: [Snip: Incorrect Attribution of what GTs are] > This is the GT rule? I thought you couldn't use other vote cards from > your hand with GT. Is that SP? GT (Golden Tenets): - Each methuselah may use only one political action card for a vote, per political action. - Each minion may only attempt an action type once per turn, despite untapping SPTR (Sensible Player's Tournament Rules): A set of tournament rules. See <http://cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad/SPTR.html> for more details. > I'm trying to find out the differences between GT and SP. Can you help? If you have any other questions, do not hesitate to ask. @ The Corrupter - Adrian Lee Sullivan @ GAT/CS/WS R+++* r(+)>++ # Gamer Coffee-Addict Scripter Author # C(+++)$ USX+$ N++ e+* @#$ Comments ? sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu $#@ tv(+)> X++ b++(+++) @#$ <http://cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad> $#@ PS+&-+ PE&-&++ z*+?

ok ok... i must admit that i didnt read all of this gt stuff. Maybe because it looked stupid to me. It looks like you guys want to make this game boring. If VTES is thrilling and better than the other card games, its because you show no mercy. I prefer to be vote pushed from time to time than to see vote decks disapear because they cant work anymore. Anyway. I guess i am not in the major leagues yet>:)

On 23 Jul 1996, Patrick Drapeau wrote: > ok ok... i must admit that i didnt read all of this gt stuff. Maybe > because it looked stupid to me. It looks like you guys want to make this > game boring. Far from it. The Golden Tenets were created to make the game _less_ boring so that one would _never_ have to worry about degenerate decks. > If VTES is thrilling and better than the other card games, > its because you show no mercy. Hmm... I would say because of its game mechanics and ultimate competition. If showing no mercy were the only real criteria, I can think of a lot of broken games that would be "better than the other card games..." > I prefer to be vote pushed from time to > time than to see vote decks disapear because they cant work anymore. I don't understand what you mean by this. > Anyway. I guess i am not in the major leagues yet>:) :) Maybe someday... ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

Vote decks still work just fine, it's WVP decks that don't. Build a standard Presence heavy Ventrue deck with some titled vamps and you'll easily overpower most tables in votes as long as you don't get blocked. --------- Paul Schaaf sch...@u.washington.edu On 23 Jul 1996, Patrick Drapeau wrote: > ok ok... i must admit that i didnt read all of this gt stuff. Maybe > because it looked stupid to me. It looks like you guys want to make this > game boring. If VTES is thrilling and better than the other card games, > its because you show no mercy. I prefer to be vote pushed from time to > time than to see vote decks disapear because they cant work anymore. [ quoted text not captured ]