Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
"another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then as
the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
interpretation is correct?
And...in regards to Thrown Gate, the card reads: "Strike: 1R with
optional maneuver." May this be played during the maneuver phase to take
advantage of the maneuver? If so, then you have telegraphed what your
strike is. But I would not think it could logically be played during the
strike phase...then what use would the maneuver be?
Opinions? Rulings?
Christian
Christian Herro (herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,: the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
: increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
: "another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
: cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then as
: the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
: interpretation is correct?
If you read the card literally, it appears to mean that these two must the
LAST modifier played, not necessarily the ONLY one. I don't know that that
was the intent, however... it will be interesting to see if anyone comes
up with a ruling...
: And...in regards to Thrown Gate, the card reads: "Strike: 1R with: optional maneuver." May this be played during the maneuver phase to take
: advantage of the maneuver? If so, then you have telegraphed what your
: strike is. But I would not think it could logically be played during the
: strike phase...then what use would the maneuver be?
This is a standard question with a standard response. The manuever, if
you this card during the strike phase, is useless.
-James
> Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
> the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
> increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
> "another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
> cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then as
> the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
> interpretation is correct?
I'm not the Rules Team, but most people I know use the rational approach:
these cards aren't intended to make 9-point bleeds possible. I think a
more clear wording, that could be applied to future printings of Bonding,
Conditioning, and Threats and all other action modifiers that affect
bleed, is
"No other action modifiers may be played to increase this bleed."
In other words, only one action modifier to increase any given bleed.
> And...in regards to Thrown Gate, the card reads: "Strike: 1R with
> optional maneuver." May this be played during the maneuver phase to take
> advantage of the maneuver? If so, then you have telegraphed what your
> strike is. But I would not think it could logically be played during the
> strike phase...then what use would the maneuver be?
Yup, you have to play the manuever during the manuever phase, and are
committed to striking with the Thrown Gate. Works about the same as using
a gun's manuever to manuever and then being obligated to use the gun for
that round's strike.
Brian
sago...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
In article <3184D8...@gold.tc.umn.edu>, Christian Herro
<herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
> Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
> the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
> increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
> "another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
> cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then
as
> the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
> interpretation is correct?
Intuition suggests that only one bleed boosting action modifier can be
played per bleed. When Jyhad/V:tES were the only cards in print, only
Bonding/Conditioning/Threats were able to modify bleeds, and they
excluded subsequent boosts from their limited set. When more cards came
into being, they expanded this set in their card text, but the old cards
were not yet aware of them to include them in their set.
I would say only one bleed boost, but that's only an opinion.
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Christian Herro <herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
>the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
>increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
>"another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
>cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then as
>the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
>interpretation is correct?
>
I think the intention here is for the V:tES wording of Bonding, Conditioning
and Threats to be used, which I think is worded as Aire of Elation is (but I
can't find one, somebody?), which would mean that playing any modifier would
bar one from playing further modifiers.
gnfnrf
Christian Herro <herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
>the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
>increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
>"another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
>cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then as
>the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
>interpretation is correct?
Once you've played Fata Morgana, Aire of Elation, Bonding, or so on,
you cannot play another action modifier - of any name - which would increase
the bleed of that action.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
In article <3184D8...@gold.tc.umn.edu>, herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu says...
>
>Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
>the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
>increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
>"another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
>cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then as
>the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
>interpretation is correct?
I feel that the further is the item that takes precedence. You can't use an
Aire of Elation and then once the bleed gets through raise it again, but I see
no reason shy you couldn't play bonding before hand to get a higher bleed. This
just requires that the Aire or Morgana is the last bleed increaser played on
this bleed round.
>And...in regards to Thrown Gate, the card reads: "Strike: 1R with
>optional maneuver." May this be played during the maneuver phase to take
>advantage of the maneuver? If so, then you have telegraphed what your
>strike is. But I would not think it could logically be played during the
>strike phase...then what use would the maneuver be?
With this card I think that if you used it in the Maneuver phase you would be
able to obviously gain advantage of the maneuver and if you wanted to have a 1R
strike as well. I don't think that there is any reason you could not play
another attack card or use a weapon once you have achieved long range. If you
are already at long range and you play the card as a combat action, the
maneuver is lost.
Joe "Skup" Skupniewitz
skup...@gold.tc.umn.edu
http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g022/skup0003
Joseph E. Skupniewitz (skup...@gold.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: In article <3184D8...@gold.tc.umn.edu>, herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu says...: >
: >Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
: >the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
: >increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on
: >"another", or on "further".: I feel that the further is the item that takes precedence. You can't: use an Aire of Elation and then once the bleed gets through raise it
: again, but I see no reason shy you couldn't play bonding before hand
: to get a higher bleed. This just requires that the Aire or Morgana
: is the last bleed increaser played on this bleed round.
While this makes sense, I understand (rulesmongers??) that the current ruling
states that you can only use ONE of the limited bleed boosting cards like
Bonding, Aire or Elation, Fata, Conditioning, etc.
: >And...in regards to Thrown Gate, the card reads: "Strike: 1R with: >optional maneuver." May this be played during the maneuver phase to take
: >advantage of the maneuver? If so, then you have telegraphed what your
: >strike is. But I would not think it could logically be played during the
: >strike phase...then what use would the maneuver be?: With this card I think that if you used it in the Maneuver phase you
: would be able to obviously gain advantage of the maneuver and if you
: wanted to have a 1R strike as well. I don't think that there is any
: reason you could not play another attack card or use a weapon once
: you have achieved long range. If you are already at long range and
: you play the card as a combat action, the maneuver is lost.
Peace Joe, but your interpretation does not fully agree with current
rulings. The key is that it is the MANEUVER that is optional, NOT the
strike. If you play the card during your maneuver phase, yes, you gain
advantage from the maneuver. BUT, you MUST then use the strike. You do
NOT get to play another attack card or use a weapon. This is in the rulebook,
actually. It is true that you can NOT use the optional maneuver if you
play the card during the strike phase (due to the rule that you only may
maneuver during the maneuver phase).
-spongy
Joseph E. Skupniewitz wrote:
>
> In article <3184D8...@gold.tc.umn.edu>, herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu says...
> >
> >Okay...can anyone tell me, with both Fata Morgana and Aire of Elation,
> >the wording is "You may not play another action modifier to further
> >increase the bleed for this action." Now, is the emphasis placed on> >"another", or on "further". If the prior, then either of these cards
> >cannot be used in combination with, say, Bonding. If the latter, then as
> >the card reads, it is the final +bleed modifier you may play. Which
> >interpretation is correct?
>> I feel that the further is the item that takes precedence. You can't use an
> Aire of Elation and then once the bleed gets through raise it again, but I see
> no reason shy you couldn't play bonding before hand to get a higher bleed. This
> just requires that the Aire or Morgana is the last bleed increaser played on
> this bleed round.
>> >And...in regards to Thrown Gate, the card reads: "Strike: 1R with
> >optional maneuver." May this be played during the maneuver phase to take
> >advantage of the maneuver? If so, then you have telegraphed what your
> >strike is. But I would not think it could logically be played during the
> >strike phase...then what use would the maneuver be?
>
> With this card I think that if you used it in the Maneuver phase you would be
> able to obviously gain advantage of the maneuver and if you wanted to have a 1R
> strike as well. I don't think that there is any reason you could not play
> another attack card or use a weapon once you have achieved long range.
Well, for weapons at least, if you use the manuever you must use the
weapon for the strike. I don't see why this would be different. Besides
it says the manuever is optional, not the strike.
> If you
> are already at long range and you play the card as a combat action, the
> maneuver is lost.
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