This happened in a game recently. My opponent was playing a weenie deck
and I was playing a Gangrel bleed deck. I had left Raven untapped with a
few Earth Melds so she could hold off more than one attacker (block then
S:CE & untap so she's ready for the next one). Igo the hungry attempts to
bleed. Raven blocks, combat begins. Range is at close and Igo (with
lesser protean) plays Earthmeld. Raven also wants to play earthmeld (so
she can untap). My question is since S:CE beats out most other cards when
being resolved (dodge, non-first strike etc.) but the same "speed" of
strikes resolve at the same time won't both minions be able to play S:CE
at the same time and untap if they can (or continue on with the action
with greater form of mist)?
Another question I have is whether the elysium will beat a regular S:CE
card. Lets say in the above scenario Igo strikes with his hands and when
Raven plays Earth Meld Igo's Methuselah does not want her to have the
chance to untap so he taps the Elysium to end combat right away. Will the
Elysium take place before the strikes are resolved since it was tapped at
the choose strike phase? (in the actual game my opponent did have the
Elysium, but this question didn't come up until today when I thought about
it :-)
~Biomechanoid
In article <4eft7b$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, biom...@aol.com (Biomech8)
writes:
>This happened in a game recently. My opponent was playing a weenie deck
>and I was playing a Gangrel bleed deck. I had left Raven untapped with a
>few Earth Melds so she could hold off more than one attacker (block then
>S:CE & untap so she's ready for the next one). Igo the hungry attempts to
>bleed. Raven blocks, combat begins. Range is at close and Igo (with
>lesser protean) plays Earthmeld. Raven also wants to play earthmeld (so
>she can untap). My question is since S:CE beats out most other cards when
>being resolved (dodge, non-first strike etc.) but the same "speed" of
>strikes resolve at the same time won't both minions be able to play S:CE
>at the same time and untap if they can (or continue on with the action
>with greater form of mist)?
No. The first S:CE ends combat immediately, not giving the other minion
a chance to even declare a strike.
>Another question I have is whether the elysium will beat a regular S:CE
>card. Lets say in the above scenario Igo strikes with his hands and when
>Raven plays Earth Meld Igo's Methuselah does not want her to have the
>chance to untap so he taps the Elysium to end combat right away. Will the
>Elysium take place before the strikes are resolved since it was tapped at
>the choose strike phase? (in the actual game my opponent did have the
>Elysium, but this question didn't come up until today when I thought about
>it :-)
>
>~Biomechanoid
The Elysium:Arboretum end combat when you tap it, which must be before
range is determined. Combat ends long before strikes are chosen.
Gary S.
biom...@aol.com (Biomech8) writes:
>she can untap). My question is since S:CE beats out most other cards when
>being resolved (dodge, non-first strike etc.) but the same "speed" of
>strikes resolve at the same time won't both minions be able to play S:CE
>at the same time and untap if they can (or continue on with the action
>with greater form of mist)?
If both play S:CE, only the acting minion's will have an effect (by
the official ruling).
>Another question I have is whether the elysium will beat a regular S:CE
>card. Lets say in the above scenario Igo strikes with his hands and when
Yes, because Elysium must be used at the beginning of a round, long
before strikes are chosen.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
In article <4eft7b$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> biom...@aol.com (Biomech8) writes:
>This happened in a game recently. My opponent was playing a weenie deck
>and I was playing a Gangrel bleed deck. I had left Raven untapped with a
>few Earth Melds so she could hold off more than one attacker (block then
>S:CE & untap so she's ready for the next one). Igo the hungry attempts to
>bleed. Raven blocks, combat begins. Range is at close and Igo (with
>lesser protean) plays Earthmeld. Raven also wants to play earthmeld (so>she can untap). My question is since S:CE beats out most other cards when
>being resolved (dodge, non-first strike etc.) but the same "speed" of
>strikes resolve at the same time won't both minions be able to play S:CE
>at the same time and untap if they can (or continue on with the action
>with greater form of mist)?
>>Another question I have is whether the elysium will beat a regular S:CE
>card. Lets say in the above scenario Igo strikes with his hands and when>Raven plays Earth Meld Igo's Methuselah does not want her to have the
>chance to untap so he taps the Elysium to end combat right away. Will the
>Elysium take place before the strikes are resolved since it was tapped at
>the choose strike phase? (in the actual game my opponent did have the
>Elysium, but this question didn't come up until today when I thought about
>it :-)
>
>~Biomechanoid
No, Elysium does not beat S:CE as you can only use Elysium
to stop combat _before_ range is chosen. Therefore, you cannot
cancel the strike with Elysium.
--
-- Nyarlathotep : The Crawling Chaos
( ny...@netcom.com )
Around here, we use a house rule that S:CE goes off during the strike
resolution phase, like all other strikes. It still is the trump action
(beats all other strikes), but at least now, if the defending vampire also
has the ability to S:CE/untap, they also get to untap (and block again).
Otherwise, if the attacking vamps S:CE ends combat immediately (which
doesn't make much sense anyway as the rules go), the defender does not get
to S:CE/untap, leading to even more S:CE abuse ("Oh, hey, look, I Majesty,
untap and come to bleed you again. And again. And again. Oops. All
your vamps are tapped now. I guess I can start using my Freak Drives
now...")
-Peter D Bakija
I've got a question about this thread. Just who is 'Raven?' I'm seen
the DS card list, and there is no vampire named Raven. I have every
Jyhad vampire, and there is no Raven. So either it's a vampire that is
in V:tES but not Jyhad, or it's some kinda nickname I've never heard
before. Excuse me if this is a dumb question.
--
Modest, industrious, benevolent, temperate: is that how you would have
men? Good men? But to me that seems only the ideal slave, the slave of
the future. Modesty, industiousness, bevevolence, temperance are just so
many hinderances to a sovereign disposition, great inventiveness, heroic
purposefullness, noble being-for-oneself.
--Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Will to Power"
/------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| You don't get what you deserve, | Good people are good because they |
| You get what you take. | are not strong enought to be evil.|
|-----------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Conflicts between right and wrong | 'Conscience' is nothing more than |
| are a sickness of the mind. | the fear of being caught. |
\------------------------------------------------------------------------/
ncas...@aol.com (NCascone) writes:
>Raven is the replacement for Camille Devereux; same stats, new art.
>Evidently the model for the first painting had objections . . .
A replacement based on art would have kept the same name so as not to
break the 'uniqueness of a vampire' paradigm.
Raven is simpy a new vampire, appearing in VtES.
It is also true (but, according to WotC, unrelated) that Camille does
not appear in the VtES card set - she was removed due to possible
copyright infringement (the painting was 'copied' straight from
a popular lingerie catalog). No one actually objected - WotC took
the initiative to avoid possible problems later.
Raven and Camille can both be controlled without contesting.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Any sufficiently advanced bug is
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | indistinguishable from a feature.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -- Kulawiec
On 31 Jan 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> ncas...@aol.com (NCascone) writes:
>
> >Raven is the replacement for Camille Devereux; same stats, new art.
> >Evidently the model for the first painting had objections . . .
>> A replacement based on art would have kept the same name so as not to
> break the 'uniqueness of a vampire' paradigm.
>
> Raven is simpy a new vampire, appearing in VtES.
>
> It is also true (but, according to WotC, unrelated) that Camille does
> not appear in the VtES card set - she was removed due to possible
> copyright infringement (the painting was 'copied' straight from
> a popular lingerie catalog). No one actually objected - WotC took
> the initiative to avoid possible problems later.
>
> Raven and Camille can both be controlled without contesting.
> --
> L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Any sufficiently advanced bug is
> http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | indistinguishable from a feature.
> Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -- Kulawiec
>
>
That's a sad thing to do considering Camille is one of my best played
vampires. Oh well they never said we would like VTES completelty. Have
you all noticed which i am sure you have that the bastard sword in VTES
is only +1 now instead of +2 like in jyhad?
Midnght <mid...@web2.calweb.com> writes:
>That's a sad thing to do considering Camille is one of my best played
>vampires. Oh well they never said we would like VTES completelty. Have
>you all noticed which i am sure you have that the bastard sword in VTES
>is only +1 now instead of +2 like in jyhad?
The bastard sword is now +1 instead of =2. This makes it *more* useful,
not less.
A sword weilded by a vampire with 2 hand damge (Zack North, e.g.) in Jyhad
would do 2 damage. In VtES, it does 3 (base 2 plus the +1 bonus of the
weapon).
For vampires with normal hand damage (most) the VtES version functions
the same as the Jyhad version (except that the VtES version can do
more damage if the owner rips up a SignPost, the Jyhad Version becomes
so much wallpaper in that case).
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <4em544$r...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>,
hsm...@garfield.msms.doe.k12.ms.us (Harry Smith) wrote:
> I've got a question about this thread. Just who is 'Raven?' I'm seen
> the DS card list, and there is no vampire named Raven. I have every
> Jyhad vampire, and there is no Raven. So either it's a vampire that is
> in V:tES but not Jyhad, or it's some kinda nickname I've never heard
> before. Excuse me if this is a dumb question.
Raven is Camille Devereaux with a new name, picture, and card back. She
is found only in VtES. WotC had to change the card to avoid a lawsuit.
Glad to be of service.
*********************************************************************
Santiago * It it better to do something and regret it
e-mail: * than to not do something and regret it.
ia...@mail.utexas.edu *
Midnght wrote:
> That's a sad thing to do considering Camille is one of my best played
> vampires. Oh well they never said we would like VTES completelty. Have
> you all noticed which i am sure you have that the bastard sword in VTES
> is only +1 now instead of +2 like in jyhad?
The bastard sword in Jyhad was 2 damage. The new bastard sword is + 1
damage. In the hands of a vampire w/ 1 hand damage and no increased
damage cards the two cards act identically. Now if you have a 2 hand
damage vampire, that's a different story. The new sword lets you do 3
damage, the old one didn't. The new one is therefore better.
>That's a sad thing to do considering Camille is one of my best played
>vampires. Oh well they never said we would like VTES completelty. Have
>you all noticed which i am sure you have that the bastard sword in VTES
>is only +1 now instead of +2 like in jyhad?
???????
The Bastard Sword in Jyhad was never "+2". Rather it was a melee weapon
that did 2 damage. Hence the V:tes Sword is generally better because 2 hand
damage people can use it to do 3 hand damage. The only drawback to it being
that, if given to a Nosferatu with Nosferatu Putresence.
Signing off...