3rd Edition Rules Questions

Just a few questions I have about some of the new cards. The White Wolf web-site does not yet have the official spoiler with official card text, so please excuse me if some of the wording on the new cards is off: #1. Raphael Catarari's card text states that he does not untap during your untap phase if he has an odd number of blood on him. Since untapping is the first thing you do during the untap phase, a Hunting Ground will not immediately help him if he initially has an odd number of blood. (i.e. Raphael has 1 blood. You have to check his blood total before you have the chance to use a Hunting Ground on him.). Right? #2. Mirror Walk states that if the action is blocked, the action ends (with no combat). If a vampire is attempting to leave torpor, plays Mirror Walk, and is then blocked, is there a chance for the blocking minion to diablerize the acting minion? Based on prior precedents concerning Change of Target and Obedience (which also end the action immediately), it seems like there is no opportunity for diablerie, correct? #3. Similar to #2, but if the action ends due to Mirror Walk, there is no opportunity for the acting minion to play Freak Drive or for the blocking minion to play Cat's Guidance, correct? (Based on the Change of Target and Obedience precedence again). #4. In contrast, Stone Travel lets you cancel the combat if you are blocked, but it does not explicitly end the action. Thus if a vampire tries to leave torpor, plays Stone Travel, and is blocked, he can still be diablerized and the reacting vampire can play Cat's Guidance to untap. Right? #5. There is no inherent limit to the number of levels of a discipline a vampire may have (though normally, having greater than 2 levels of a discipline doesn't do much for you). If Smudge has the Changeling Skin Mask, you cannot place Obfuscate skill cards on him (due to card text), so if the Mask is destroyed during combat, Smudge suddenly loses the ability to play Obfuscate cards. But say Nickolai has the Changeling Skin Mask (2 levels of Obfuscate). Assuming another of your vampires also has superior OBF, Nickolai can take two actions with his special to gain 2 levels of Obfuscate (now he has Level 4 Obfuscate). So if the Changeling Skin Mask is destroyed during combat, he can still play Obfuscate cards (since 4 - 2 = 2, so he now just has level 2 Obfuscate). Correct? #6. I control Orlando Oriundus who has a Seeds of Corruption (the Seeds are controlled by my predator). I call a political action with Arika, play a Hall of Hades' Court at superior Temporis with Krassimir, and then play a Business Pressure (in which my predator ousts himself, meaning the Seeds of Corruption burns). Does Arika now have 8, 12, or 16 votes? (Due to Orlando + Hall of Hades' Court). Alternatively, one could argue that while the Seeds of Corruption is on Orlando, he doesn't double votes but his restriction (against multiplers) still applies so I would not have been able to play the Hall anyway. LSJ? #7. A slightly different scenario from #6. I call a political action with Arika, play a Hall of Hades' Court with Krassimir, and now I burn Temptation counters to gain control of Orlando (so I didn't have him at the time I played the multiplier). Does Arika have 8, 12, or 16 votes when the votes are tallied? #8. Does Orlando double any votes for the prisci sub-referendum? Since there is no explicit card text stating so (like Free States Rant), then based on the precedence of Condemnation: Mute and Rastacourere, I would guess that it does not double prisci votes (same thing with superior Hall of Hades' Court). Right? #9. Orlando (Bishop title worth 1 vote and special that doubles it) is in combat. I want to make a hand strike with the Island of Yiaros. How much of a strength bonus does Orlando get? Thanks!

echia...@yahoo.com wrote: > Just a few questions I have about some of the new cards. The White Wolf > web-site does not yet have the official spoiler with official card > text, so please excuse me if some of the wording on the new cards is > off: > > > #1. Raphael Catarari's card text states that he does not untap during > your untap phase if he has an odd number of blood on him. Since > untapping is the first thing you do during the untap phase, a Hunting > Ground will not immediately help him if he initially has an odd number > of blood. (i.e. Raphael has 1 blood. You have to check his blood total > before you have the chance to use a Hunting Ground on him.). Right? Right. > #2. Mirror Walk states that if the action is blocked, the action ends > (with no combat). If a vampire is attempting to leave torpor, plays > Mirror Walk, and is then blocked, is there a chance for the blocking > minion to diablerize the acting minion? Based on prior precedents > concerning Change of Target and Obedience (which also end the action > immediately), it seems like there is no opportunity for diablerie, > correct? Should be. > #3. Similar to #2, but if the action ends due to Mirror Walk, there is > no opportunity for the acting minion to play Freak Drive or for the > blocking minion to play Cat's Guidance, correct? (Based on the Change > of Target and Obedience precedence again). Don't know. > #4. In contrast, Stone Travel lets you cancel the combat if you are > blocked, but it does not explicitly end the action. Thus if a vampire > tries to leave torpor, plays Stone Travel, and is blocked, he can still > be diablerized and the reacting vampire can play Cat's Guidance to > untap. Right? Sounds right. > #5. There is no inherent limit to the number of levels of a discipline > a vampire may have (though normally, having greater than 2 levels of a > discipline doesn't do much for you). If Smudge has the Changeling Skin > Mask, you cannot place Obfuscate skill cards on him (due to card text), > so if the Mask is destroyed during combat, Smudge suddenly loses the > ability to play Obfuscate cards. But say Nickolai has the Changeling > Skin Mask (2 levels of Obfuscate). Assuming another of your vampires > also has superior OBF, Nickolai can take two actions with his special > to gain 2 levels of Obfuscate (now he has Level 4 Obfuscate). So if the > Changeling Skin Mask is destroyed during combat, he can still play > Obfuscate cards (since 4 - 2 = 2, so he now just has level 2 > Obfuscate). Correct? Sure. > #6. I control Orlando Oriundus who has a Seeds of Corruption (the Seeds > are controlled by my predator). I call a political action with Arika, > play a Hall of Hades' Court at superior Temporis with Krassimir, and > then play a Business Pressure (in which my predator ousts himself, > meaning the Seeds of Corruption burns). Does Arika now have 8, 12, or > 16 votes? (Due to Orlando + Hall of Hades' Court). Alternatively, one > could argue that while the Seeds of Corruption is on Orlando, he > doesn't double votes but his restriction (against multiplers) still > applies so I would not have been able to play the Hall anyway. LSJ? I think the restriction is part of the ability. However, your predator does not control Seeds, so it will not leave play when he is ousted. Moot. > #7. A slightly different scenario from #6. I call a political action > with Arika, play a Hall of Hades' Court with Krassimir, and now I burn > Temptation counters to gain control of Orlando (so I didn't have him at > the time I played the multiplier). Does Arika have 8, 12, or 16 votes > when the votes are tallied? Probably 16, or else he'll be 'clarified' to have his text not work if you've already played a multiplier somehow. > #8. Does Orlando double any votes for the prisci sub-referendum? Since > there is no explicit card text stating so (like Free States Rant), then > based on the precedence of Condemnation: Mute and Rastacourere, I would > guess that it does not double prisci votes (same thing with superior > Hall of Hades' Court). Right? Probably. > #9. Orlando (Bishop title worth 1 vote and special that doubles it) is > in combat. I want to make a hand strike with the Island of Yiaros. How > much of a strength bonus does Orlando get? Don't have him in front of me, but I think his special only applies during a referendum, which would make it +1. > Thanks! Witness1 -ItE

witness1 wrote: > > #6. I control Orlando Oriundus who has a Seeds of Corruption (the Seeds > > are controlled by my predator). I call a political action with Arika, > > play a Hall of Hades' Court at superior Temporis with Krassimir, and > > then play a Business Pressure (in which my predator ousts himself, > > meaning the Seeds of Corruption burns). Does Arika now have 8, 12, or > > 16 votes? (Due to Orlando + Hall of Hades' Court). Alternatively, one > > could argue that while the Seeds of Corruption is on Orlando, he > > doesn't double votes but his restriction (against multiplers) still > > applies so I would not have been able to play the Hall anyway. LSJ? > > I think the restriction is part of the ability. However, your predator > does not control Seeds, so it will not leave play when he is ousted. > Moot. Yes, normally you do control the Seeds since it is a minion card. But in this hypothetical, as stated, your *predator* controls the Seeds (done via Malkavian Time Auction for example). > > #7. A slightly different scenario from #6. I call a political action > > with Arika, play a Hall of Hades' Court with Krassimir, and now I burn > > Temptation counters to gain control of Orlando (so I didn't have him at > > the time I played the multiplier). Does Arika have 8, 12, or 16 votes > > when the votes are tallied? > > Probably 16, or else he'll be 'clarified' to have his text not work if > you've already played a multiplier somehow. BTW: The reason I included 12 as an option is that in some games (like d20 I believe), doubling twice just leads to a triple multiplier. I don't think VTES has ever had to set a precedent on this so who knows? > > #9. Orlando (Bishop title worth 1 vote and special that doubles it) is > > in combat. I want to make a hand strike with the Island of Yiaros. How > > much of a strength bonus does Orlando get? > > Don't have him in front of me, but I think his special only applies > during a referendum, which would make it +1. Well, Genevieve's special only works during political actions (not during blood hunts) and Merged Jan only gets the three additional votes during referendums as well. So based on your logic, none of them would get any strength bonus when using the Island of Yiaros?

witness1 wrote: > echia...@yahoo.com wrote: > > #1. Raphael Catarari's card text states that he does not untap during > > your untap phase if he has an odd number of blood on him. Since > > untapping is the first thing you do during the untap phase, a Hunting > > Ground will not immediately help him if he initially has an odd number > > of blood. (i.e. Raphael has 1 blood. You have to check his blood total > > before you have the chance to use a Hunting Ground on him.). Right? > Right. Right. > > #2. Mirror Walk states that if the action is blocked, the action ends > > (with no combat). If a vampire is attempting to leave torpor, plays > > Mirror Walk, and is then blocked, is there a chance for the blocking > > minion to diablerize the acting minion? Based on prior precedents > > concerning Change of Target and Obedience (which also end the action > > immediately), it seems like there is no opportunity for diablerie, > > correct? > > Should be. Correct. > > #3. Similar to #2, but if the action ends due to Mirror Walk, there is > > no opportunity for the acting minion to play Freak Drive or for the > > blocking minion to play Cat's Guidance, correct? (Based on the Change > > of Target and Obedience precedence again). > > Don't know. Correct (no opportunity). > > #4. In contrast, Stone Travel lets you cancel the combat if you are > > blocked, but it does not explicitly end the action. Thus if a vampire > > tries to leave torpor, plays Stone Travel, and is blocked, he can still > > be diablerized and the reacting vampire can play Cat's Guidance to > > untap. Right? > > Sounds right. Correct. > > #5. There is no inherent limit to the number of levels of a discipline > > a vampire may have (though normally, having greater than 2 levels of a > > discipline doesn't do much for you). If Smudge has the Changeling Skin > > Mask, you cannot place Obfuscate skill cards on him (due to card text), > > so if the Mask is destroyed during combat, Smudge suddenly loses the > > ability to play Obfuscate cards. But say Nickolai has the Changeling > > Skin Mask (2 levels of Obfuscate). Assuming another of your vampires > > also has superior OBF, Nickolai can take two actions with his special > > to gain 2 levels of Obfuscate (now he has Level 4 Obfuscate). So if the > > Changeling Skin Mask is destroyed during combat, he can still play > > Obfuscate cards (since 4 - 2 = 2, so he now just has level 2 > > Obfuscate). Correct? > > Sure. Correct. > > #6. I control Orlando Oriundus who has a Seeds of Corruption (the Seeds > > are controlled by my predator). I call a political action with Arika, > > play a Hall of Hades' Court at superior Temporis with Krassimir, and > > then play a Business Pressure (in which my predator ousts himself, > > meaning the Seeds of Corruption burns). Does Arika now have 8, 12, or > > 16 votes? (Due to Orlando + Hall of Hades' Court). Alternatively, one > > could argue that while the Seeds of Corruption is on Orlando, he > > doesn't double votes but his restriction (against multiplers) still > > applies so I would not have been able to play the Hall anyway. LSJ? The latter -- the restriction is in effect. > > #7. A slightly different scenario from #6. I call a political action > > with Arika, play a Hall of Hades' Court with Krassimir, and now I burn > > Temptation counters to gain control of Orlando (so I didn't have him at > > the time I played the multiplier). Does Arika have 8, 12, or 16 votes > > when the votes are tallied? > > Probably 16, or else he'll be 'clarified' to have his text not work if > you've already played a multiplier somehow. 16 is fine, since it'll never be abusable. > > #8. Does Orlando double any votes for the prisci sub-referendum? Since > > there is no explicit card text stating so (like Free States Rant), then > > based on the precedence of Condemnation: Mute and Rastacourere, I would > > guess that it does not double prisci votes (same thing with superior > > Hall of Hades' Court). Right? > > Probably. Correct. > > #9. Orlando (Bishop title worth 1 vote and special that doubles it) is > > in combat. I want to make a hand strike with the Island of Yiaros. How > > much of a strength bonus does Orlando get? > > Don't have him in front of me, but I think his special only applies > during a referendum, which would make it +1. +1, correct.