Q. Maxwells special

Maxwell has a special, or rather two: Once each turn, Maxwell can burn a blood to get +1 stealth on an action that requires Presence. If he doesn't have a title, he can call a referendum to become the Prince of Chicago as a +1 stealth political action. The last one got me wondering. Assume Maxwell has Clan Impersonated into a clan with a non-camarilla default sect. We now have a titleless non-camarilla Maxwell. Maxwell now takes the action allowed from his cardtext and calls the referendum to become Prince of Chicago. What happens? (For simplicity the referendum will go in Maxwells controllers favour) 1) He can't do it as he's not Camarilla. 2) He calls the referendum, but the outcome is moot as he's not Camarilla. 3) He calls the referendum and becomes Prince of Chicago even though he's no Camarilla, because his cardtext overrides the rules handling sects and titles. Sten During

On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 16:03:43 +0100, Sten During <ya...@netg.se> wrote: >Maxwell has a special, or rather two: >Once each turn, Maxwell can burn a blood to get +1 stealth on an action >that requires Presence. If he doesn't have a title, he can call a >referendum to become the Prince of Chicago as a +1 stealth political >action. >The last one got me wondering. >Assume Maxwell has Clan Impersonated into a clan with a non-camarilla >default sect. We now have a titleless non-camarilla Maxwell. >Maxwell now takes the action allowed from his cardtext and calls the >referendum to become Prince of Chicago. What happens? (For simplicity >the referendum will go in Maxwells controllers favour) >1) He can't do it as he's not Camarilla. #1 is correct. Section 10 of the online rulebook. A vampire must belong to the appropriate sect to receive a title. You cannot take an action to become a Prince if you are prohibited from becoming a Prince. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

The Lasombra wrote: > >>Maxwell now takes the action allowed from his cardtext and calls the >>referendum to become Prince of Chicago. What happens? (For simplicity >>the referendum will go in Maxwells controllers favour) > > >>1) He can't do it as he's not Camarilla. > > > #1 is correct. > > Section 10 of the online rulebook. > > A vampire must belong to the appropriate sect to receive a title. > > > You cannot take an action to become a Prince if you are prohibited > from becoming a Prince. > Hmm, yup, the most sensible way of handling it, but having #1 as correct contradicts section 1.4 of the same rulebook. (Let's say that his text had been "take an action to become" then 1.4 would definitely have overruled 10 leaving us with an episode during a game rather nicely mirroring Marcus Vitel in the novels.) I was more or less 100% positive that #3 must be incorrect, but according to 1.4 he ought to be allowed to call the referendum even though no matter the outcome he would not be allowed to receive the title. Why would this difference make any point? Well, the player has Maxwell ready and untapped and would very much like to use the hand with 1 Bewitching Oration, 1 Awe and 1 Voter Captivation in order to generate some nice bloat and get rid of three currently useless cards at the same time. Sten During

Sten During wrote: > The Lasombra wrote: > >>Maxwell now takes the action allowed from his cardtext and calls the > >>referendum to become Prince of Chicago. What happens? (For simplicity > >>the referendum will go in Maxwells controllers favour) > >>1) He can't do it as he's not Camarilla. > > #1 is correct. > > Section 10 of the online rulebook. > > A vampire must belong to the appropriate sect to receive a title. > Hmm, yup, the most sensible way of handling it, but having #1 as > correct contradicts section 1.4 of the same rulebook. Maxwell's card text does nothing to override section 10 rules, so 1.4 doesn't come to bear here. > (Let's say that his text had been "take an action to become" then > 1.4 would definitely have overruled 10 leaving us with an episode > during a game rather nicely mirroring Marcus Vitel in the novels.) No, it still would say nothing abot overcoming the sect restriction. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: >>(Let's say that his text had been "take an action to become" then >>1.4 would definitely have overruled 10 leaving us with an episode >>during a game rather nicely mirroring Marcus Vitel in the novels.) > > > No, it still would say nothing abot overcoming the sect restriction. > Apart from definitely agreeing with #1 being the most sensible way of handling Maxwell I beg to disagree about the strictly hypothetical text above. Maxwell should become Prince of Chicago with my hypothetical text above, (assuming of course that entire text had been "if he doesn't have a title he can take an action to become Prince of Chicago"). The following question would in that case be if his princedom should be handled exactly the same way as if he had already been a Prince when switching sect (ie being in need to switch sect to Camarilla in order to receive the benefits from being a Prince). And no, I'm not trying to neither troll, nor starting a flame about what is not sensible, but 1.4 is quite specific - in some cases too specific, so it could result in a Sabbat Prince of <city>, leaving the problem of handling how to treat such a creature. Sten During