[LSJ] Pack Alpha resolution order

Pack Alpha Combat (Common) Animalism A vampire may play only one Pack Alpha each round. [ani] Employ an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined. Pay cost as normal. [ANI] Burn an animal retainer employed by this vampire and put this card on this vampire. The minion with this card gets +1 strength. A minion may have only one Pack Alpha. ---- Howler, with retained Owl Companion, gets into combat with Fatima. Fatima shoots Owl Companion with a really big gun. Can Howler play Pack Alpha at [ANI] after strike is declared but before Fatima's strike resolves to burn Owl Companion and still gain the permanent effect? Seems similar enough to Wolf Claws et al, so I am guessing the answer is 'Yes'. Traditionally, that means the answer is a resounding 'No'. Cheers, WES P.S. Confidential to those who I play with: I will be abusing this card, oh yes I will. You have been warned.

Wes wrote: > Pack Alpha > Combat (Common) > Animalism > A vampire may play only one Pack Alpha each round. > [ani] Employ an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined. > Pay cost as normal. > [ANI] Burn an animal retainer employed by this vampire and put this card on > this vampire. The minion with this card gets +1 strength. A minion may have > only one Pack Alpha. > > ---- > > Howler, with retained Owl Companion, gets into combat with Fatima. Fatima > shoots Owl Companion with a really big gun. Can Howler play Pack Alpha at > [ANI] after strike is declared but before Fatima's strike resolves to burn > Owl Companion and still gain the permanent effect? > > Seems similar enough to Wolf Claws et al, so I am guessing the answer is > 'Yes'. Traditionally, that means the answer is a resounding 'No'. Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: >> Howler, with retained Owl Companion, gets into combat with Fatima. >> Fatima shoots Owl Companion with a really big gun. Can Howler play >> Pack Alpha at [ANI] after strike is declared but before Fatima's >> strike resolves to burn Owl Companion and still gain the permanent >> effect? >> >> Seems similar enough to Wolf Claws et al, so I am guessing the answer >> is 'Yes'. Traditionally, that means the answer is a resounding 'No'. > > Yes. If Howler had declared a strike of hands, would that strike resolve with the extra +1 strength from the Pack Alpha? (Ie, is the strike damage set at declaration or resolution?) --Colin McGuigan

Colin McGuigan a écrit : [ quoted text not captured ] No. See Body Arsenal ;)

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:JYSdnTtWqq_...@speakeasy.net... > If Howler had declared a strike of hands [and then increased her strength], > would that strike resolve with the extra +1 strength from the Pack Alpha? Yes. > (Ie, is the strike damage set at declaration or resolution?) The latter. See also Body Arsenal (or even Manstopper Rounds, for a non-Strength version). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

"Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message news:cvmv4...@enews3.newsguy.com... > P.S. Confidential to those who I play with: I will be abusing this card, > oh yes I will. You have been warned. Wes, you'd really kill your Golden Retriever that way? Even if you wouldn't, you should announce the card that way. "I'll murder a middle-class family's beloved pet for +1 strength." --does that picture imply anything else? heslin

[ quoted text not captured ] Bestiality? Yeah. Its a rather heart warming card, until you see what happens in the next frame. "aww... how sweet. Dogs are a kindred's best frie... oh gawd! The horror!"

> Even if you wouldn't, you should announce the card > that way. "I'll murder a middle-class family's beloved > pet for +1 strength." > Totally. [ani] I pull a puppy out of my pants. [ANI] I eat a puppy.

"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:2005022517...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net... [ quoted text not captured ] And the art work supports the inf version too! Raille

"Matthew Heslin" <hes...@sprynet.com> wrote > > Wes, you'd really kill your Golden Retriever that way? A dog? Never! I love dogs. > Even if you wouldn't, you should announce the card > that way. "I'll murder a middle-class family's beloved > pet for +1 strength." Now cats, on the other hand... cats are as bourgeois as you can get. Still, great card. The Ahrimanes just went up a notch IMHO. Cheers, WES

Wes wrote: > "Matthew Heslin" <hes...@sprynet.com> wrote > > > Even if you wouldn't, you should announce the card > > that way. "I'll murder a middle-class family's beloved > > pet for +1 strength." > > Now cats, on the other hand... cats are as bourgeois as you can get. Why? Because they won't lick penut butter off of your genitals? > Still, great card. The Ahrimanes just went up a notch IMHO. If you're referring to Muricia's Call, I'm not buying it... (actually I'm selling it! HA!) I think the cards over rated. There aren't diverse enough animalism retainers to warrant its usefulness at this time. Sure, an untap is good (SPI ANI) but so is Cock Robin... All clans with access to Animalism just went up a notch IMO. (Ohh... the themati tzimisce eating some puppies and then the warghouls eating some other puppies. Yummy. Puppy eating fun. That's the name of the hypothetical deck.) > Cheers, > WES

"Screaming Vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote >> > Why? Because they won't lick penut butter off of your genitals? You got me... Now back to the game. >> Still, great card. The Ahrimanes just went up a notch IMHO. > > If you're referring to Muricia's Call, I'm not buying it... No, we were actually referring to Pack Alpha, ie the card mentioned explicitly in the subject line :) But I am a big fan of Muricia's Call. Both MC and PA used liberally with tonnes of animal retainers should make for a great way for Ahrimanes to pick and choose the right retainer for the right situation. > (actually > I'm selling it! HA!) Oh yeah? Talk to me. > I think the cards over rated. There aren't diverse > enough animalism retainers to warrant its usefulness at this time. 1. Dog Pack 2. Jackal 3. Murder of Crows 4. Owl Companion 5. Raptor 6. Raven Spy 7. Wolf Companion I don't think that's too bad. Dog Pack, while an ok card, isn't much use to the Ahrimanes. But then the Gangrel and Ahrimanes have enough synergy that it's not out of the running. Jackal... well, let's not mention Jackal. As for the others, not exactly diverse in terms of what they do, sure. But being able to intercept, read your opponent's hand and do enviro-damage is all good in my books. > Sure, an untap is good (SPI ANI) but so is Cock Robin... Sure, but that's a different deck. > All clans with access to Animalism just went up a notch IMO. Yeah, well, I have a thing for the Ahrimanes. I've been trying to break them forever. > (Ohh... > the themati tzimisce eating some puppies and then the warghouls eating > some other puppies. Yummy. Puppy eating fun. That's the name of the > hypothetical deck.) Yeah, sure,, that works. Cheers, WES

Wes wrote: > As for the others, not exactly diverse in terms of what they do, sure. But > being able to intercept, read your opponent's hand and do enviro-damage is > all good in my books. Yeah, but what do you do to avoid going to torpor yourself? I mean, they're all great, but none of them help you avoid getting the snot beat out of you. And the more "keep my snot intact" cards you throw in, the less chance you have of having the Pack Alpha+retainer combo in hand. Look at concealed guns -- you have what, 18 cards (at least) devoted to that combo, and that's not throwing in flash, pursuit, psyche!, etc. And guns give you a free manuever. The way I'm thinking is, you throw in, say, 15 masters, 20 prevent cards, 20 wake cards, and then say 20 pack alphas and 25 retainers. --Colin McGuigan

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote > > Yeah, but what do you do to avoid going to torpor yourself? I mean, > they're all great, but none of them help you avoid getting the snot beat > out of you. Stay at long, or at close, whatever you need to stay alive. I think the Ahrimanes (well, Howler) are pretty good at establishing a comfortable distance for themselves. Swiftness of the Stag is a powerful card. I've also added liberal doses of Guardian Angel and Leather Jacket to my Ahrimanes decks. > The way I'm thinking is, you throw in, say, 15 masters, 20 prevent cards, > 20 wake cards, and then say 20 pack alphas and 25 retainers. I don't think that many are needed. Howler will get in combat -- we know this. So you use that opportunity to play a retainer here and there, even if that retainer is not useful to said combat, like Raven Spy. It basically saves you a hiring action, which is the equivalent of Freak Drive when the cards flow right. If anything, the problem I have had with Ahrimanes decks is not dealing with other combat decks... but instead with *too many actions* (And PTO of course.) Of course, this is a new card and I have not used it yet, so don't hold me to this jibba-jabba. Cheers, WES

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:32:57 -0500, "Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> scrawled: > >"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote >> The way I'm thinking is, you throw in, say, 15 masters, 20 prevent cards, >> 20 wake cards, and then say 20 pack alphas and 25 retainers. > >I don't think that many are needed. agreed. i prefer to keep my decks to 90 cards or less, myself. :) salem http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

salem wrote: > On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:32:57 -0500, "Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> > scrawled: > > >>"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote > > >>>The way I'm thinking is, you throw in, say, 15 masters, 20 prevent cards, >>>20 wake cards, and then say 20 pack alphas and 25 retainers. >> >>I don't think that many are needed. > > > agreed. i prefer to keep my decks to 90 cards or less, myself. :) I was...uh...referring to a 6 player game, of course. --Colin McGuigan

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:26:26 -0600, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] in that case, i'd consider upping the master count a little. :) salem there's no esaping my facetiousness.