rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

[Deck] The 4 Apocalypse's Riders

21 messages from 8 participants · 03 September 2003 – 05 September 2003
original thread on Google Groups

Ego_Sum

Name: The 4 apocalypse Riders Author: Iñaki Puigdollers Description: this is an straight forward shambling hordes deck, so what it does is play Hordes and smash 'em on your prey's (sometimes predator) head. Some people blame me of being to risky and straight forward when building/playing a deck, what I mean is ... if I build an ally deck I'll try to make the deck play 'em as fast and take profit of them the sooner the better, that's the reason why sometimes my decks seem a little bit weak against some types of predators but their defense is their full attack 8in this kind of decks). Crypt 12 (Max. 20, Min. 12, Avg. 3,916) 3 Isabel Giovanni 2 Le din Tho 2 Gloria Giovanni 3 Rudolfo Giovanni 1 Lia Milliner 1 Marcianna Giovanni Library 74 Master 13 4 Accquired Ventrue Assets 1 Charisma 3 Path of Bone 1 Powerbase montreal 3 Dreams of the Sphinx 1 Secure haven (mostly contest but also Tho protection) /*No blood dolls for the reason above written, plus in this deck normalli a blood doll means that shambling Hordes are 2 blood and 1 pool worth, that's why I prefer to add some more blood-healing cards instead. Also I 'd like to add some Life in the city but there's no room for 'em.*/ Allies 19 18 Shambling Hordes 1 Leonardo the Mortician Equipement 1 1 Sargon's Fragment Reaction 10 4 Deflection 2 Redirection 2 Delaying Tactics 2 Wake with evening freshness Action Modifier 4 4 Call of the hungry Dead 4 Conditioning Combo 4 4 Spectral Divination Action 11 2 Sanguine Instruction 2 Far Mastery 3 Summon Soul /*helps in hordes recycling and vamps refresh*/ 4 Compel the Spirit /*A little multi rush*/ Combat 8 6 Fake out 2 Trap /*Maybe swap trap for 2 fake out more which means more anti-gun efficiency and more vampire defense, but trap with Compel the spirit is so delicious...*/ Greetings, Iñaki, Prince of Barcelona P.S. I'd also like with this post your opinion about deck building. Do you normally prepare defense against everything in any deck you build or, opposite, you sometimes sacrifice self defense (or at least this is waht it seems) for a full attack or a better developement of your deck? Thanks in advance.

Orpheus

Please don't hesitate to play this at your local Storyline, smash your enemies, win the tournie and get a chance to win Augustus !! ;-) Now for comments : > Name: The 4 apocalypse Riders Nice name, even if I don't quite see why... > Author: Iñaki Puigdollers > > Description: this is an straight forward shambling hordes deck, so > what it does is play Hordes and smash 'em on your prey's (sometimes > predator) head. It seems that the best strategy when you handle such a deck would be to first incapacitate your predator (not totally, as he'll be useful between you and your grand'pred), and then to get on to your prey ; that way, your grand' prey will also get some, and you get a chance to go for the table... > Some people blame me of being to risky and straight > forward when building/playing a deck, what I mean is ... if I build an > ally deck I'll try to make the deck play 'em as fast and take profit > of them the sooner the better, that's the reason why sometimes my > decks seem a little bit weak against some types of predators but their > defense is their full attack 8in this kind of decks). > Crypt 12 (Max. 20, Min. 12, Avg. 3,916) > > 3 Isabel Giovanni > 2 Le din Tho > 2 Gloria Giovanni > 3 Rudolfo Giovanni > 1 Lia Milliner > 1 Marcianna Giovanni Marcianna cannot invoke a Shambling without the Path in game. Drop her. Put some Carlotta, not only does she have more blood but her special may very well save your life... > Library 74 > > Master 13 > > 4 Accquired Ventrue Assets > 1 Charisma > 3 Path of Bone Drop one and add a Tower of London ? > 1 Powerbase montreal I'd drop it, you'll get it stolen all the time. I'd rather have some Charisma, Tower of London or other. > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx > 1 Secure haven (mostly contest but also Tho protection) > > /*No blood dolls for the reason above written, Still looks like a problem to me. Blood Dolls will be your pool gain or will help you get SH out, and Leonardo + the AVA will make a good combo with the BD. I'd put 3-4 in. > plus in this deck > normalli a blood doll means that shambling Hordes are 2 blood and 1 > pool worth, that's why I prefer to add some more blood-healing cards > instead. Also I 'd like to add some Life in the city but there's no > room for 'em.*/ I'd put at least one Giant's Blood and 1 Jake Washington, for obvious reasons. > Allies 19 > > 18 Shambling Hordes Isn't it too much ? > 1 Leonardo the Mortician 2 ? > Equipement 1 > > 1 Sargon's Fragment > > Reaction 10 > > 4 Deflection > 2 Redirection > 2 Delaying Tactics > 2 Wake with evening freshness Lots of reactions for just 2 Wakes... > Action Modifier 4 > > 4 Call of the hungry Dead > 4 Conditioning Governs would be better, as they can help with pool management. > Combo 4 > > 4 Spectral Divination > > Action 11 > > 2 Sanguine Instruction For NEC ? Will you have the time and chance to use them ? I'd drop them... > 2 Far Mastery Ok, especially if you play in the Storyline. > 3 Summon Soul /*helps in hordes recycling and vamps refresh*/ I'd put less. > 4 Compel the Spirit /*A little multi rush*/ I'd put less. > Combat 8 > > 6 Fake out > 2 Trap > > /*Maybe swap trap for 2 fake out more which means more anti-gun > efficiency and more vampire defense, but trap with Compel the spirit > is so delicious...*/ What do your vamps do if they are rushed at +1 stealth ? No S:CE, no Pot... That may be a big problem. > Greetings, > > Iñaki, Prince of Barcelona > P.S. I'd also like with this post your opinion about deck building. Do > you normally prepare defense against everything in any deck you build > or, opposite, you sometimes sacrifice self defense (or at least this > is waht it seems) for a full attack or a better developement of your > deck? Thanks in advance. I usually prefer my decks to be able to offer some type of defense against every type of attack. On this topic and others, I recommend the articles compiled here and elsewhere that I put on http://necrobones.free.fr/strategy.htm. Good luck with Necromancing, Orpheus, Prince of Marseille (coming soon to Barcelona !!!)

Orpheus

> Now for comments : > > > Name: The 4 apocalypse Riders Oh, and I almost forgot : where are your Memories of Mortality ?? ;-) Orpheus, also working at a SH deck (with an edge - pun intended...).

Ego_Sum

First of All thanks for all the comments but now I'll try to explain why I have made some construction decissions. "Orpheus" <orph...@free.fr> wrote in message news:<3f5654e2$0$16549$626a...@news.free.fr>... > Please don't hesitate to play this at your local Storyline, smash your > enemies, win the tournie and get a chance to win Augustus !! ;-) mmm Sorry friend, But I have to give the Chance for the Blue army, me loved clan, the Ventrue, since I've been playing them from the day I started. But I 'll sure play 'em any other day ;-P > > Now for comments : > > > Name: The 4 apocalypse Riders > > Nice name, even if I don't quite see why... > Look at the Shambling hordes picture and essence, they are 4 one for each point of life, once they got hit they lose a friend, so they are 4, 3, 2, 1, and 0. That's the reason > > > Crypt 12 (Max. 20, Min. 12, Avg. 3,916) > > > > 3 Isabel Giovanni > > 2 Le din Tho > > 2 Gloria Giovanni > > 3 Rudolfo Giovanni > > 1 Lia Milliner > > 1 Marcianna Giovanni > > Marcianna cannot invoke a Shambling without the Path in game. Drop her. Put > some Carlotta, not only does she have more blood but her special may very > well save your life... Marcianna is the bouncer and opportunist of the deck, she is also a humen shield against rush and helps against voters, she also can provide some cross-table control. > > > Library 74 > > > > Master 13 > > > > 4 Accquired Ventrue Assets > > 1 Charisma > > 3 Path of Bone > > Drop one and add a Tower of London ? I don't like it, for a real efficiency it must show up early in the game, 'cause until the 3rd use you won't have gain anything, since you have to invest 2 pool on it. And I think path is so important in this deck. > > > 1 Powerbase montreal > > I'd drop it, you'll get it stolen all the time. I'd rather have some > Charisma, Tower of London or other. Maybe add another Dreams, but is the main pool gain, if they try to steal it you hit 'em with the hordes and then you take it again. Is more like a terrorific defense-ofense. If I decide not to play the powerbase I'll play a Jake washington. > > > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx > > 1 Secure haven (mostly contest but also Tho protection) > > > > /*No blood dolls for the reason above written, > > Still looks like a problem to me. Blood Dolls will be your pool gain or will > help you get SH out, and Leonardo + the AVA will make a good combo with the > BD. I'd put 3-4 in. I see that, but as I said above I tend to focus the decks to do what they know and thi deck needs healthy vamps to summon the hordes, pool gain will be via reams/powerbase and ousting. Most Allies decks are full of Masters and sometimes suffer hand-jamming 'cause of this. That's Why I tried not to play too many masters in this deck, just the ones I really need to survive. There are too many other Master cards very very useful for this deck but IMHO not Essential. > > > plus in this deck > > normalli a blood doll means that shambling Hordes are 2 blood and 1 > > pool worth, that's why I prefer to add some more blood-healing cards > > instead. Also I 'd like to add some Life in the city but there's no > > room for 'em.*/ > > I'd put at least one Giant's Blood and 1 Jake Washington, for obvious > reasons. Again too many masters means hand-jamming > > > Allies 19 > > > > 18 Shambling Hordes > > Isn't it too much ? I don't think so, I 'd rather think they are too few. Well in fact It's a good number since with that amount you'll sure have on in first turn (in fact they are a 24% of the deck) which means 1 every 4 cards more or less. And that's cool if you want to buid it early. > > > 1 Leonardo the Mortician > > 2 ? Well, maybe but no room... Have to test. > > > Equipement 1 > > > > 1 Sargon's Fragment > > > > Reaction 10 > > > > 4 Deflection > > 2 Redirection > > 2 Delaying Tactics > > 2 Wake with evening freshness > > Lots of reactions for just 2 Wakes... Marcianna always ready for it!, plaus you can always let someone waken for defense if really needed. But again I had to sacrifice some defense for extra attack. Plus if really needed a new creatted SH can Delay some vote... > > > Action Modifier 4 > > > > 4 Call of the hungry Dead > > 4 Conditioning > > Governs would be better, as they can help with pool management. Governs do are better but more predictible, as you declare the bleed with GtU, COnditioning is more like unexpeceted (specially the first one). That's why I decided to go that way. Plus I'm sure i'll use 'em to kill since if I cannot kill I'll not use them, not as GtU, once the action is declared with it it could get blocked (since I have no roon for fames, for the "too-many-masters" reason, I need some ousting power--> conditioning). > > > Combo 4 > > > > 4 Spectral Divination > > > > Action 11 > > > > 2 Sanguine Instruction > > For NEC ? Will you have the time and chance to use them ? I'd drop them... With this I could agree but I wanna see If I have the time to play them, since I played no games with this deck I really don't know. Actually is a concept, a beta version of what it will be after testing. > > > 2 Far Mastery > > Ok, especially if you play in the Storyline. > > > 3 Summon Soul /*helps in hordes recycling and vamps refresh*/ > > I'd put less. Same testing, maybe... > > > 4 Compel the Spirit /*A little multi rush*/ > > I'd put less. Maybe, testing... But it's great when you rush extra times and no-one expected it... > > > Combat 8 > > > > 6 Fake out > > 2 Trap > > > > /*Maybe swap trap for 2 fake out more which means more anti-gun > > efficiency and more vampire defense, but trap with Compel the spirit > > is so delicious...*/ > > What do your vamps do if they are rushed at +1 stealth ? No S:CE, no Pot... > > That may be a big problem. Same as always some little sacrifice of defense. But if they rush I 'll throw marcianna or horde away if it is at stelath then bad luck, I try to maneuver away or rescue from torpor. But I'm still thinking wether I have to add more fakes or not... > > > Greetings, > > > > Iñaki, Prince of Barcelona > > > P.S. I'd also like with this post your opinion about deck building. Do > > you normally prepare defense against everything in any deck you build > > or, opposite, you sometimes sacrifice self defense (or at least this > > is waht it seems) for a full attack or a better developement of your > > deck? Thanks in advance. > > I usually prefer my decks to be able to offer some type of defense against > every type of attack. On this topic and others, I recommend the articles > compiled here and elsewhere that I put on > http://necrobones.free.fr/strategy.htm. Ok, I see your point, normally for me best defense is a great attack. Greetings, Iñaki, Prince of Barcelona.-

Ego_Sum

"Orpheus" <orph...@free.fr> wrote in message news:<3f566f79$0$16558$626a...@news.free.fr>... [ quoted text not captured ] Well again don't want too many master cards, they are cool but not essential, against kombat decks smash 'em and recycle. Fake out help with range decks (that's why I 'd put maybe 2 more...) [ quoted text not captured ]

salem

On 4 Sep 2003 01:02:20 -0700, inaki.pu...@estudiant.upc.es (Ego_Sum) scrawled: [snip] >> > 4 Deflection >> > 2 Redirection >> > 2 Delaying Tactics >> > 2 Wake with evening freshness >> >> Lots of reactions for just 2 Wakes... > >Marcianna always ready for it!, plaus you can always let someone waken >for defense if really needed. But again I had to sacrifice some >defense for extra attack. Plus if really needed a new creatted SH can >Delay some vote... Erm, except Delaying Tactics requires 1 blood. Shambling Hordes don't have any blood, only life counters, and they lack the specific text needed to allow them to pay life as blood. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

Orpheus

> [snip] > >> > 4 Deflection > >> > 2 Redirection > >> > 2 Delaying Tactics > >> > 2 Wake with evening freshness > >> > >> Lots of reactions for just 2 Wakes... > > > >Marcianna always ready for it!, plaus you can always let someone waken > >for defense if really needed. But again I had to sacrifice some > >defense for extra attack. Plus if really needed a new creatted SH can > >Delay some vote... > > Erm, except Delaying Tactics requires 1 blood. Shambling Hordes don't > have any blood, only life counters, and they lack the specific text > needed to allow them to pay life as blood. Right. And Marcianna only has 2 blood, so she will be useful a while, but not eternally (and not havin DOM, she can't use your redirections). So, I'd really ditch her and add more Wakes. Orpheus

Ego_Sum

salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<qu8elvs0kuuuamtbh...@4ax.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Absolutely Sure 'bout that, doesn't any ally pay blood with life whenever needed? Maybe I'm wrong, any LSJ confirmation? Thanks anyway, always ready for corrections if needed. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Ego_Sum wrote: > salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<qu8elvs0kuuuamtbh...@4ax.com>... >>Erm, except Delaying Tactics requires 1 blood. Shambling Hordes don't >>have any blood, only life counters, and they lack the specific text >>needed to allow them to pay life as blood. >> > Absolutely Sure 'bout that, doesn't any ally pay blood with life > whenever needed? Maybe I'm wrong, any LSJ confirmation? Thanks anyway, > always ready for corrections if needed. Allies have no blood, so cannot pay blood to play cards or to power effects. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

salem

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:41:37 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >Ego_Sum wrote: >> salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<qu8elvs0kuuuamtbh...@4ax.com>... >>>Erm, except Delaying Tactics requires 1 blood. Shambling Hordes don't >>>have any blood, only life counters, and they lack the specific text >>>needed to allow them to pay life as blood. >>> >> Absolutely Sure 'bout that, doesn't any ally pay blood with life >> whenever needed? Maybe I'm wrong, any LSJ confirmation? Thanks anyway, >> always ready for corrections if needed. > >Allies have no blood, so cannot pay blood to play cards or to power >effects. Ego_Sum might have been thinking about 'steal blood' effects, which steal life from allies/retainers (and converts the counters into blood..or however it works..). Also might be worth noting 'burn blood' effects will not effect life counters. [ quoted text not captured ]

Ego_Sum

"Orpheus" <orph...@free.fr> wrote in message news:<3f57ace7$0$16554$626a...@news.free.fr>... [ quoted text not captured ] Reason for playing Marcianna: -dom means: - Able to deflect - Can occasionally modify if bleeding - Ocasionally Far mastery inferior level -Is a Giovanni towards AVA (can also recruit leonardo) -Can delay some painful vote -Can block Rush (o stealth rush, the usual ones: Bum's rush, ambush, Theo...). -Can rescue vampires from Torpor -Can diablerize -With sanguine instruction can even redirect and recruit hordes at inferior level -With Sargon fragment and one of the paths/Charisma can recruit hordes at superior level. -Her ability is really cool against voters (specially) and crostable help -She is an small-cap so she helps against early weenie hordes Reason for not playing her: -Cannot recruit hordes since 1st turn she is out -Cannot redirect too good -Her ability cannot be used with allies -She is too small so she gets wasted early For there are more reasons to play her than to avoid that. And IMO there are heavier reasons to play her. But well I know this is only an opinion. [ quoted text not captured ]

Orpheus

> For there are more reasons to play her than to avoid that. And IMO > there are heavier reasons to play her. But well I know this is only an > opinion. I agree that she is good in most Giovanni decks. I wouldn't put here in a Shambling deck, but that's not really very important, and it's only an opinion too. Good luck with your deck, Orpheus

Timlagor

salem expounded: > >Allies have no blood, so cannot pay blood to play cards or to power > >effects. > > Ego_Sum might have been thinking about 'steal blood' effects, which > steal life from allies/retainers (and converts the counters into > blood..or however it works..). > > Also might be worth noting 'burn blood' effects will not effect life > counters. Slightly bizarrely you can't Tase of Vitae damage done to them either.

LSJ

Timlagor wrote: > Slightly bizarrely you can't Tase of Vitae damage done to [allies] either. I don't understand. Do you mean "bizarre" conceptually? It's "bizarre" that you cannot taste the vitae of someone who has no vitae? or card textually? It's "bizarre" that the opposing ally is not considered a "vampire" by taste of vitae? [ quoted text not captured ]

Smiling Tom

"Timlagor" <Timlagor...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje news:MPG.19c281476...@news.freeserve.com... [ quoted text not captured ] But then we wouldn't have such a great card as Orgy of Blood !!! (Not kidding, we see lots of ally decks reaching final rounds here in spain to pack either entrancements or, if my deck is combat oriented, I repalce a copy of Taste for a copy of this card) But to answer yourself, I'll remind of an anecdote from 94, when we started playing jyhad: We thought that you were able to play "embrace" on an ally, turning it into a vampire, and thus you were able put skill cards on allies, so the Muddled VH turned into a fearsome monster. Yes, in a WoD environment might seems plausible, but it had nothing to do with VTES mechanics.

Timlagor

LSJ expounded: > Timlagor wrote: > > Slightly bizarrely you can't Tase of Vitae damage done to [allies] either. > > I don't understand. > > Do you mean "bizarre" conceptually? Correct > It's "bizarre" that you cannot taste the vitae of someone who has no vitae? Vitae = blood. You're telling me that mortals don't have blood? Even with 1 life point they ought to have about 8 p[o]ints of blood (conceptually) though for the card game you would expect to go with life. Then again VtES blood points aren't terribly similar to VtM ones anyway so maybe they aren't pints... Either way it seems weird that you can't get any blood out of a dead mortal. Obviously cardwise it's self-consistent.

LSJ

Timlagor wrote: > Vitae = blood. > > You're telling me that mortals don't have blood? Even with 1 life point > they ought to have about 8 p[o]ints of blood (conceptually) though for > the card game you would expect to go with life. Then again VtES blood > points aren't terribly similar to VtM ones anyway so maybe they aren't > pints... Sorry. Guess I'm still mixing metaphors, thinking that allies have life "instead of" blood. > Either way it seems weird that you can't get any blood out of a dead > mortal. You can, but the Taste of Vitae isn't about drinking the blood out of the vessel. It's about the blood that has been spilled. The vessel need not even be dead. Perhaps vampire's blood is potent enough to allow the meager rations one could get from splatters to suffice, whereas the same is not true of the unenhanced blood of a mortal. [ quoted text not captured ]

Henrik Isaksson

"Smiling Tom" <t...@almadrava.net> skrev i meddelandet news:bj9ulb$gu9$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net... > > "Timlagor" <Timlagor...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje > > But to answer yourself, I'll remind of an anecdote from 94, when we started > playing jyhad: We thought that you were able to play "embrace" on an ally, > turning it into a vampire, and thus you were able put skill cards on allies, > so the Muddled VH turned into a fearsome monster. > Silly house-rules are fun... I the Halmstad VTES-group, we have a house rule that you can strike for 1 damage if you have a Aarons feeding razor! (useful if disarmed) =) Also, Lazverinus thrall of Lambach can't block Lambach... /henrik isaksson

Matthew T. Morgan

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Henrik Isaksson wrote: > Silly house-rules are fun... I the Halmstad VTES-group, we have a house rule that you can strike for > 1 damage if you have a Aarons feeding razor! (useful if disarmed) =) Also, Lazverinus thrall of > Lambach can't block Lambach... How can an armless vampire wield Aaron's Feeding Razor? Does he hold it in his teeth? -Matt

Henrik Isaksson

"Matthew T. Morgan" <far...@eris.io.com> skrev i meddelandet news:Pine.LNX.4.44.030905...@eris.io.com... [ quoted text not captured ] How does he wield his assault-rifle? =) /henrik isaksson

Matthew T. Morgan

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Henrik Isaksson wrote: > "Matthew T. Morgan" <far...@eris.io.com> skrev i meddelandet > news:Pine.LNX.4.44.030905...@eris.io.com... > > On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Henrik Isaksson wrote: > > > > > Silly house-rules are fun... I the Halmstad VTES-group, we have a house rule that you can strike > for > > > 1 damage if you have a Aarons feeding razor! (useful if disarmed) =) Also, Lazverinus thrall of > > > Lambach can't block Lambach... > > > > How can an armless vampire wield Aaron's Feeding Razor? Does he hold it > > in his teeth? > > How does he wield his assault-rifle? =) Now you're just getting silly. Prehensile toes, of course. -Matt