I heard from some people in our player group that the following was an "official" ruling, but I
couldn't find anything about it in the errata sheet posted on the 1st.
According to them, you can now dodge a first strike using a dodge as your normal strike (not
using Backstab to get first strike capibilities). Is this the case? (and if so, what's the
point of having first strikes if they can merely be dodged by a normal strike: dodge?)
2nd question: Again this comes from people I've played with:
Does your minion phase end when you oust your pray? (this prevents someone from walking
all over the entire board in one turn) Some people say this is a tournament rule, but I
couldn't find anything about it in either the errata or tournament rulings.
And a clairification:
I know you can't add stealth or intercept if it is not needed. But is it true that you
can not play 2nd Tradition if you don't need the stealth?
Example: All you minions are tapped out and someone bleeds you at no stealth. According
to what I've read you can not play 2nd Tradition to untap and block because you don't need the
intercept it provides.
If this is the case, myself and my fellow players strongly protest. We understand not
being able to burn extra stealth of intercept cards just to cycle cards, but cards that have
other basic functions like 2nd tradidion (the ability to untap and block) should not fall victim
to this rule.
Eugene Martin wrote:
> I heard from some people in our player group that the following was an "official" ruling, but I
> couldn't find anything about it in the errata sheet posted on the 1st.
>
> According to them, you can now dodge a first strike using a dodge as your normal strike (not
> using Backstab to get first strike capibilities). Is this the case?
Yes. This has always been true.
The first instance of this being addressed by the rules team was
in "Design Team Rulings: 12/22/94", and it has never been changed
or overturned.
> (and if so, what's the
> point of having first strikes if they can merely be dodged by a normal strike: dodge?)
To deal your damage first. If the effect of that damage is to make your
opponent unready (burn or torpor him), then the opponent's strike won't
hurt you, because it won't resolve.
> 2nd question: Again this comes from people I've played with:
> Does your minion phase end when you oust your pray? (this prevents someone from walking
> all over the entire board in one turn) Some people say this is a tournament rule, but I
> couldn't find anything about it in either the errata or tournament rulings.
No. You continue your turn as normal, with a new prey.
> And a clairification:
> I know you can't add stealth or intercept if it is not needed. But is it true that you
> can not play 2nd Tradition if you don't need the stealth?
It is true that you cannot add intercept unless you need it (as you note).
Therefore, you cannot play second tradition (which adds intercept) unless
you need the intercept.
> Example: All you minions are tapped out and someone bleeds you at no stealth. According
> to what I've read you can not play 2nd Tradition to untap and block because you don't need the
> intercept it provides.
This is correct.
> If this is the case, myself and my fellow players strongly protest. We understand not
> being able to burn extra stealth of intercept cards just to cycle cards, but cards that have
> other basic functions like 2nd tradidion (the ability to untap and block) should not fall victim
> to this rule.
That has been the long-standing argument, but it has never swayed the
Rules Team. I'll pass it along again, however.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
In article <33C26A...@regency.wizards.com>,
"LSJ (VtES Rep)" <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote:
>Eugene Martin wrote:>> According to them, you can now dodge a first strike using a dodge as your normal strike (not
>> using Backstab to get first strike capibilities). Is this the case?>
>Yes. This has always been true.
>
>The first instance of this being addressed by the rules team was
>in "Design Team Rulings: 12/22/94", and it has never been changed
>or overturned.
>>> (and if so, what's the
>> point of having first strikes if they can merely be dodged by a normal strike: dodge?)>
>To deal your damage first. If the effect of that damage is to make your
>opponent unready (burn or torpor him), then the opponent's strike won't
>hurt you, because it won't resolve.
I don't think I was clear enough in my question. Because you said yes in your answer, but your
example seems to indicate that you can not dodge a first strike with a normal strike:dodge.
Please walk me through the following two examples and everything should be clear to me.
1) I am the acting minion and am blocked by a vampire with a flamethrower. My strike is Fast
Hands Superior (steal weapon with first strike). My opponent plays Dodge. Does he keep the
flamethrower (even though my strike was a first strike and his was normal) or is it stolen?
2) I have a vampire with superior celerity and potence who blocks an acting vampire. I play
Backstap in order to get first strike capibility. I use Burning Wrath to inflict aggrivated
damage. The acting vampire can not prevent the damage. He plays dodge as his normal strike.
Does he go to torpor (assuming the agg. damage doesn't burn him), or does he dodge the damage?
Eugene Martin (gmar...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: I don't think I was clear enough in my question. Because you said yes in your answer, but your: example seems to indicate that you can not dodge a first strike with a normal strike:dodge.
: Please walk me through the following two examples and everything should be clear to me.: 1) I am the acting minion and am blocked by a vampire with a flamethrower. My strike is Fast
: Hands Superior (steal weapon with first strike). My opponent plays Dodge. Does he keep the
: flamethrower (even though my strike was a first strike and his was normal) or is it stolen?: 2) I have a vampire with superior celerity and potence who blocks an acting vampire. I play
: Backstap in order to get first strike capibility. I use Burning Wrath to inflict aggrivated
: damage. The acting vampire can not prevent the damage. He plays dodge as his normal strike.
: Does he go to torpor (assuming the agg. damage doesn't burn him), or does he dodge the damage?
AFAIK, dodge strikes of any sort always cancel all strikes
except strike: combat ends. Therefore, in:
1) The flamethrower stays where it is, and the blocking minion
can even use it to hose you with additional strikes (assuming
you cannot get them as well)
2) No damage is dealt from your Burning Wrath.
Dodge and S:CE are bastards to get around, but CEL/POT should
be able to do it adequately with Immortal Grapples (Burning
Wrath is a hand strike, I believe, so could be used under an
Immortally Grappled Backstab to avoid just about all combat
avoidance) and many additional strikes/Bum's Rushes/Haven
Uncovered.
-Dave Green
Eugene Martin wrote:
> "LSJ (VtES Rep)" <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote:
> >Eugene Martin wrote:> >> [Can you] dodge a first strike?
> > Yes.> >
> >> (and if so, what's the
> >> point of having first strikes if they can merely be dodged by a normal strike: dodge?)
> >
> >To deal your damage first. If the effect of that damage is to make your
> >opponent unready (burn or torpor him), then the opponent's strike won't
> >hurt you, because it won't resolve.
>> I don't think I was clear enough in my question. Because you said yes in your answer, but your
> example seems to indicate that you can not dodge a first strike with a normal strike:dodge.
My "example" was merely an explanation of what the point of first strikes is.
The example indicates how first strike can be beneficial, but it assumes that
the opposing minion doesn't thwart your first strike with a Dodge or with
Strike: Combat Ends.
If your opponent has ten blood and announces a strike that will deal
seven damage to you, and you announce a strike at First Strike that
deals one aggravated, then your opponent will go to torpor before
his strike resolves, and you won't take the seven damage.
> Please walk me through the following two examples and everything should be clear to me.
>
> 1) I am the acting minion and am blocked by a vampire with a flamethrower. My strike is Fast
> Hands Superior (steal weapon with first strike). My opponent plays Dodge. Does he keep the
> flamethrower (even though my strike was a first strike and his was normal) or is it stolen?
He keeps it. the Dodge "prevents the effect of" your strike (VtES rulebook).
The effect of your strike was to steal the equipment. This effect is
prevented. (There's more to exactly what the Dodge prevents, but I don't
want to complicate things here). If you're using the Jyhad rulebook,
the quote changes to "negates the effect of" (a better phrasing).
> 2) I have a vampire with superior celerity and potence who blocks an acting vampire. I play
> Backstap in order to get first strike capibility. I use Burning Wrath to inflict aggrivated
> damage. The acting vampire can not prevent the damage. He plays dodge as his normal strike.
> Does he go to torpor (assuming the agg. damage doesn't burn him), or does he dodge the damage?
He dodges the strike, so the effect of the strike is prevented/negated, so
the damage never happens.
[ quoted text not captured ]