(LSJ) Advancement + Discipline master

Vampire Bob (basic) has for. Meth Bill plays a FOR master on Bob. Bob is now a 2 cap. Bob mergesm and his advanced version already has FOR. Does Bob's capacity get reduced as the For master card is now on an illegal target?

[ quoted text not captured ] It's not on an illegal target. "Cannot be placed on a vampire with superior Fortitude." This is only checked at the time you are "placing" it. So he keeps his capacity increase.

On 27 Jul, 11:58, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Yep, or if you want a more detailed answer... >From the rulebook... "The particulars of this merge are as follows. The counters and cards on the vampire remain. The advancement and the base card are treated as a single vampire card, even if sent to the uncontrolled region somehow, until the vampire is burned. Any effects in play that targeted the vampire now target the merged version. When merged, the text on the base card still applies, but the rest of the card is ignored (capacity, Disciplines, etc.). The advancement card applies in full. If the advancement card conflicts with the base card (a different sect, for example), the advancement card has precedence." And from the master card... "Capacity increases by 1: the vampire is one generation older." So what capacity/disciplines/favourite colour the vampire had at the time of advancement are irrelevant, and the limitations on whether or not effects could have been played are likewise irrelevant. (Advancing Tariq doesn't mean you'd have to burn any atonements he has, for example). His capacity is ignored and replaced with that of the advanced version, and then the effect of the fortitude is applied - the capacity is increased by one, and the vampire (still) has superior fortitude.

On Jul 27, 12:48 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Jozxyqk wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I want that keyboard... :)

Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1185558911.649376.188370 @g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: > On Jul 27, 12:48 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Correct. > > I want that keyboard... :) > Eeek! I set thieves upon LSJ's keyboard! Sorry, Scott... :P DZ

On 27 jul, 12:48, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Jozxyqk wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Ok, but I have another question about Advancement. Say the ADV Vampire has a effect played on him in the uncontrolled region, like Cadet. When merged, does the effect still aplies to the merged vampire? (in that example, Is the merged vampire still Black Hand? )

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:37:54 -0700, Fizeront <brigada...@gmail.com> wrote: >Ok, but I have another question about Advancement. >Say the ADV Vampire has a effect played on him in the uncontrolled >region, like Cadet. When merged, does the effect still aplies to the >merged vampire? (in that example, Is the merged vampire still Black >Hand? ) No. None of the cards or blood on the uncontrolled vampire enter play when you merge the vampire. See section 1.5.6 of the online rulebook. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ "move the vampire card from your uncontrolled region to the controlled vampire card " ----------------- 1.5.6 Advancement: An advancement card is a type of vampire card for your crypt. An advancement card looks just like a regular crypt card except that it has an Advancement icon under the clan icon. The advancement card is a vampire card in all respects, so it can be influenced in the normal manner. In addition, if you already control the advancement or the associated regular "base" vampire and the other version of the vampire is in your uncontrolled region, then you can spend 4 transfers and 1 pool to move the vampire card from your uncontrolled region to the controlled vampire card (place the advancement card on top of the base card). The two cards effectively merge to form a single vampire. The particulars of this merge are as follows. The counters and cards on the vampire remain. The advancement and the base card are treated as a single vampire card, even if sent to the uncontrolled region somehow, until the vampire is burned. Any effects in play that targeted the vampire now target the merged version. When merged, the text on the base card still applies, but the rest of the card is ignored (capacity, Disciplines, etc.). The advancement card applies in full. If the advancement card conflicts with the base card (a different sect, for example), the advancement card has precedence. Some merged cards have an additional effect that only applies if the card is merged with its base card. Such an effect is identified in the card text by a "merged" icon. The advanced vampire (merged or not) will contest other copies of the same vampire (advanced or not) in play, as usual.

Fizeront wrote: > Ok, but I have another question about Advancement. > Say the ADV Vampire has a effect played on him in the uncontrolled > region, like Cadet. When merged, does the effect still aplies to the > merged vampire? (in that example, Is the merged vampire still Black > Hand? ) No. When advancing, the vampire in play is "the vampire". The crypt card from the uncontrolled region is just a card played on "the vampire". Any cards, counters, and other effects applied to that card are lost when it merges with "the vampire".

"Blooded Sand" <sand...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1185528297.9...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I would actually like to talk more about Meth Bill. Some possibilities: Meth Bill Brujah Antitribu 3 cap POT +1 strength Meth Bill may enter combat with a vampire controlled by another Methuselah as a (D) action that costs 1 tooth. -- Meth Bill Unique Master Requires a Ready Follower of Set. Place this card on a minion controlled by your prey. The cost of all actions performed by the minion with this card is increased by 1 pool. The minion with this card may enter combat with a minion controlled by the Methuselah who played this card as a (D) action. This card may be burned by any Methuselah who chooses to have sex with the Methuselah who played this card. "I'm going to try meth. Just once." -Thomas Siebel -- -UniqueMaster ; )