Point of Patrizia Giovanni deck

"O keep the dog far hence, that's friend to men, Or with her nails she'll dig it up again." Deck concept, anyway. Last night i had a dream about Assamites with cute little pet doggies. i thought of ways for them to get the doggies - Heidelberg castle, clan impersonation sorta thing. Then this morning it struck me that Patrizia Giovanni is the key to making an effective Assamite combat deck that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up doggies. Key cards: Usual Assamite combat stuff - celerity manouevres and additional strikes, Quietus unpreventable and aggravated ranged strikes, Tastes of Vitae. Dog packs Heidelberg Castle, Germany Patrizia Giovanni Ghoul Retainer Scary weapons, maybe some disguised weapons. Scary Assamites Psyches and contracts. Deals with the Devil/Barrens/Dreams/Fragments Sacrifical Lamb Whispers of the Dead, maybe. Trade a gun in the graveyard for the Dog pack in your hand. Then dig up the doggies. BUCKETS of Infernal Familiars. Move them on to somebody expendable when they get too countery. The great thing is that no clan impersonation is required for this to work [so you can still use contracts and do the other cool assamite stuff], and you can't DI Patrizia's ability - at least i think you can't - because recruiting a retainer in the graveyard is not a DI-able action [i think - LSJ?]. If you could somehow get superior Obtenebration on an assamite - probably using one discipline card and the camarilla vitae slave [recruited by Patrizia] you could Shadow step for: A combat set at long range in which the opposing minion can't play SCE [dog pack] and can't prevent the damage [blood sweats/additional strikes/ environmental damage from ghoulish weapons] and gets burned [tastes of death]. But even without that it's a pretty attractive concept! i suspect pulling all that off would use up so many slots that there wouldn't be room for voting - but maybe Volker could make an appearance and then you could call an anathema, or [balls of steel] go for a bit of graverobbing via Thetmes, and just rely on someone else bringing out a prince who is then going to call a few anathemas for you once s/he has been, erm, persuaded to join your team. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > Then this morning it struck me that Patrizia Giovanni > is the key to making an effective Assamite combat deck > that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up > doggies. Are you certain? I wouldn't think that just because a Dog Pack is in the ash heap, that Patrizia can disregard clan requirements to put it into play. Noal -- "What you cannot enforce, do not command." -- Socrates [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8hggl1$4q0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Then this morning it struck me that Patrizia Giovanni > > is the key to making an effective Assamite combat deck > > that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up > > doggies. > > Are you certain? I wouldn't think that just because a Dog Pack is in > the ash heap, that Patrizia can disregard clan requirements to put it > into play. Actually no, i'm not certain. i originally intended to entitle the thread deck idea or possibly rules query. So if the clan requirement stays then the idea won't work. Bah. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8hggl1$4q0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Then this morning it struck me that Patrizia Giovanni > > is the key to making an effective Assamite combat deck > > that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up > > doggies. > > Are you certain? I wouldn't think that just because a Dog Pack is in > the ash heap, that Patrizia can disregard clan requirements to put it > into play. Yeah, actually i think you are right - it says EMPLOY on Patrizia's card. Alright, go for cheap Giovanni and recruit Ambrosius. The trick is the same, but there's an extra step. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > Deck concept, anyway. Last night i had a dream about Assamites with cute > little pet doggies. i thought of ways for them to get the doggies - > Heidelberg castle, clan impersonation sorta thing. Then this morning it > struck me that Patrizia Giovanni is the key to making an effective > Assamite combat deck that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up > doggies. > > The great thing is that no clan impersonation is required for this to > work [so you can still use contracts and do the other cool assamite > stuff], and you can't DI Patrizia's ability - at least i think you can't > - because recruiting a retainer in the graveyard is not a DI-able action > [i think - LSJ?]. Almost right, but probably not what you meant: DI only works against minion (library-non-master) cards, not special abilities. But then, after the successful action, someone could DI the retainer card, since it is then being played (just as someone can SR the card Bindusara gets with his special ability action [RTR 08-JUL-1996]). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In article <393BC84E...@white-wolf.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] So, you are saying that Patrizia Giovanni can pull a dog pack out of the ash heap? Thanks, Norman S. Brown Jr. X_Zealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 5 Jun 2000 legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > Yeah, actually i think you are right - it says EMPLOY on Patrizia's card. Just clan impersonate her first, then. This also gives you the option, if you play a number of the cards, to use the clan impersonations to just not bother with the ash heap. With regards the payment, however, "she" still plays the employment cost as normal. Presumably, the Methuselah has to too.... -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "I know my ex-boyfriend lies. Oh, he does it every time. It's just his permanent disguise, yeah, yeah, but he's drop dead gorgeous."

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> writes: >legb...@my-deja.com wrote: >> Deck concept, anyway. Last night i had a dream about Assamites with cute >> little pet doggies. i thought of ways for them to get the doggies - >> Heidelberg castle, clan impersonation sorta thing. Then this morning it >> struck me that Patrizia Giovanni is the key to making an effective >> Assamite combat deck that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up >> doggies. >> >> The great thing is that no clan impersonation is required for this to >> work [so you can still use contracts and do the other cool assamite >> stuff], and you can't DI Patrizia's ability - at least i think you can't >> - because recruiting a retainer in the graveyard is not a DI-able action >> [i think - LSJ?]. > >Almost right, but probably not what you meant: >DI only works against minion (library-non-master) cards, not special >abilities. >But then, after the successful action, someone could DI the retainer card, >since it is then being played (just as someone can SR the card Bindusara >gets with his special ability action [RTR 08-JUL-1996]). Er, are you confusing Patrizia with Carlotta? I don't think Legbiter is proposing to recover the retainer card from the graveyard and then play it from his hand in a separate action. He's proposing to retain "directly" from the graveyard using Patrizia's special ability. The question is whether this action constitutes "playing a retainer card" and thus is DI-able. And for that matter (and much more to the point in my mind), do the clan or discipline requirements of a retainer count for Patrizia's ability to recruit from the graveyard? If not, there's lot of interesting stuff she might do. I'm actually not sure why the DI question matters that much. Just wait until next turn and do it again. Sounds like it would mostly be a waste of a good DI card. Fred

On 5 Jun 2000, Frederick Scott wrote: > Er, are you confusing Patrizia with Carlotta? I doubt it. > I don't think Legbiter > is proposing to recover the retainer card from the graveyard and then > play it from his hand in a separate action. Neither is Bindusara, the analagous situation from which this ruling is derived. You fetch the card and put it in play. Here, you get a card from your ash-heap and employ it. You can SR the putting in play of Bindusara, so you can DI the employing of the retainer. > He's proposing to retain > "directly" from the graveyard using Patrizia's special ability. The > question is whether this action constitutes "playing a retainer card" > and thus is DI-able. From the Bindusara ruling, yes, it does - as that consitutes playing a master card. > And for that matter (and much more to the point in > my mind), do the clan or discipline requirements of a retainer count for > Patrizia's ability to recruit from the graveyard? Yes. She employs a retainer. When you "employ" you are performing a defined action, and so follow the rules for it. > I'm actually not sure why the DI question matters that much. Just wait > until next turn and do it again. Sounds like it would mostly be a waste > of a good DI card. If it means your vampire survives for an extra turn (since you having just been rushed by the vampire who got the Dog Pack heidelburged over from the clan impersonated patrizia), it could be game winning. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 5 Jun 2000 X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > So, you are saying that Patrizia Giovanni can pull a dog pack out of the > ash heap? No - unless she was aalready Impersonated to Gangrel. However, were she to bring one out, you could DI it. [ quoted text not captured ]

X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Patrizia Giovanni [...] likes to dig up [Dog Packs].[...] > > > and you can't DI Patrizia's ability [...] [i think - LSJ?]. > > Almost right, but probably not what you meant: > > DI only works against minion cards, not special abilities. > > But then someone could DI the retainer card, > > since it is then being played (just as someone can SR the card > > Bindusara gets with his special ability action [RTR 08-JUL-1996]). > > So, you are saying that Patrizia Giovanni can pull a dog pack out of the > ash heap? No, I was answering the question legbiter posed: "you can't DI Patrizia's ability ... right?". The answer to tht is as given above. I didn't really evaluate the premise "Patrizia can employ a Dog Pack from the ash heap", unfortunately - I was looking only at the question posed. As others (incl. Leggy) have indicated in other messages in this thread, Patrizia's "employ" templating indicates that she has to meet the normal requirements of "employ"ing the retainer, including clan requirements, so cannot employ the Dog Pack - whether from the hand or from the ash heap. (Similarly, a non-Assamite cannot use Disguised Weapon to equip with a Kali's Fang). Sorry for the oversight. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <393BF17B...@white-wolf.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] But Ambrosius could move a Dog Pack onto Patrizia... Justicar. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ: > Patrizia's "employ" templating indicates that she has to meet the normal requirements of "employ"ing the retainer, including clan requirements, so cannot employ the Dog Pack - whether from the hand or from the ash heap. (Similarly, a non-Assamite cannot use Disguised Weapon to equip with a Kali's Fang). > LSJ LSJ: Could Ambrosius pull a Dog Pack from the ash heap and place it on any vampire you control?? His text says: "He can take an action to allow you to move a retainer from your ash heap to a ready vampire you control. " Thanks in advance, Madman [ quoted text not captured ]

madma...@my-deja.com wrote: > LSJ: > > > Patrizia's "employ" templating indicates that she has to meet the > normal requirements of "employ"ing the retainer, including clan > requirements, so cannot employ the Dog Pack - whether from the hand or > from the ash heap. (Similarly, a non-Assamite cannot use Disguised > Weapon to equip with a Kali's Fang). > > LSJ > > LSJ: > > Could Ambrosius pull a Dog Pack from the ash heap and place it on any > vampire you control?? His text says: "He can take an action to allow > you to move a retainer from your ash heap to a ready vampire you > control. " Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]