Timing issues

An earlier thread made clear that Direct Intervention and Rewind Time is played between the action-card and modifiers that requires you to play them as the action is announced. Some questions: Do I have to hold all modifers I have to play as action is announced on hand when announcing the action, or can I replace my actioncard, draw a Seduction, replace it and draw a Perfect Clarity and use both modifiers as I declare my action? I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. My action is stopped with Direct Intervention. Do I pay for Perfect Clarity even though there is no longer an action to modify? I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. Direct Intervention. Do I tabe both actioncard and modifier back to my hand? I Govern with Perfect, replace both cards and someone plays Direct Intervention. I now have eight (or nine) cards on hand. Do I discard down to hand-size or do my fellow Metuselahs have to trust me as I say that I put back the two last drawn cards on top of my Library? (Cornercase) In the latter case, have I just broken the rules by seeing the two top cards of my library? There is a similar problem with Delaying Tactics. If I don't play any modifiers during the referendum I'll have eight cards on hand, but it doesn't say how to handle that situation. Sten During

In article <3BF04D53...@netg.se>, Sten During <ya...@netg.se> wrote: >An earlier thread made clear that Direct Intervention and Rewind Time >is played between the action-card and modifiers that requires you >to play them as the action is announced. > >Some questions: > >Do I have to hold all modifers I have to play as action is announced >on hand when announcing the action, or can I replace my actioncard, >draw a Seduction, replace it and draw a Perfect Clarity and use >both modifiers as I declare my action? You need not hold the modifiers in-hand at the time you play the action card; it's legal to play a just-drawn modifier after the action card is played. >I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. My action is stopped >with Direct Intervention. Do I pay for Perfect Clarity even though >there is no longer an action to modify? You never had the opportunity to play Perfect Clarity; Direct Intervention happens before the Perfect Clarity leaves your hand. >I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. Direct Intervention. >Do I tabe both actioncard and modifier back to my hand? Neither. The Govern goes to the ash heap; the modifier never left your hand. >I Govern with Perfect, replace both cards and someone plays >Direct Intervention. I now have eight (or nine) cards on hand. >Do I discard down to hand-size or do my fellow Metuselahs >have to trust me as I say that I put back the two last drawn >cards on top of my Library? Why do you have 8/9 cards in your hand? Direct Intervention does not return the canceled card to your hand. Assuming your hand size is 7, it remains 7 after Direct Intervention. No cards currently printed have text saying anything about replacing drawn cards to the top of the library. If someone plays Direct Intervention after you play Perfect Clarity, only Perfect Clarity is affected; it's way too late to affect Govern at that point. Perfect Clarity goes to the ash heap. Your hand size and library are not involved. >(Cornercase) In the latter case, have I just broken the rules >by seeing the two top cards of my library? Moot. >There is a similar problem with Delaying Tactics. If I don't play >any modifiers during the referendum I'll have eight cards on >hand, but it doesn't say how to handle that situation. Any time you have cards in hand in excess of your hand size, you immediately discard down to your hand size. Once you take the PA back into your hand per Delaying Tactics, you choose a card to discard. Note that Delaying Tactics only returns the PA, not any modifiers, to your hand; any action modifiers or reactions played during the referendum remain in the ashheap. gomi -- "...to believe that violence [...] is always wrong, you cannot believe in doing right." -Jonah Goldberg

I'll make my guesses ;) > Some questions: > > Do I have to hold all modifers I have to play as action is announced > on hand when announcing the action, or can I replace my actioncard, > draw a Seduction, replace it and draw a Perfect Clarity and use > both modifiers as I declare my action? I think you can draw them and play them as you get them. > I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. My action is stopped > with Direct Intervention. Do I pay for Perfect Clarity even though > there is no longer an action to modify? You are not allowed to play Perfect if someone plays DI. > I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. Direct Intervention. > Do I tabe both actioncard and modifier back to my hand? You shouldn't have played PC in the first place, and GtU is burned and discarded, not taken back to hand (card text of DI). > I Govern with Perfect, replace both cards and someone plays > Direct Intervention. I now have eight (or nine) cards on hand. > Do I discard down to hand-size or do my fellow Metuselahs > have to trust me as I say that I put back the two last drawn > cards on top of my Library? You do only replace GtU and since you weren't allowed to play PC before DI you have done an illegal play. > (Cornercase) In the latter case, have I just broken the rules > by seeing the two top cards of my library? Yes, but you've only seen the top card since you should replace GtU anyway as it is burned and not taken back to hand. > There is a similar problem with Delaying Tactics. If I don't play > any modifiers during the referendum I'll have eight cards on > hand, but it doesn't say how to handle that situation. This one I know for sure :) Answer is that you discard down to your handsize as you take back the card. Roger

"Gomi no Sensei" <go...@panix.com> wrote in message news:9spo7b$63o$1...@panix1.panix.com... > In article <3BF04D53...@netg.se>, Sten During <ya...@netg.se> wrote: > >An earlier thread made clear that Direct Intervention and Rewind Time > >is played between the action-card and modifiers that requires you > >to play them as the action is announced. > > > >Some questions: > > > >Do I have to hold all modifers I have to play as action is announced > >on hand when announcing the action, or can I replace my actioncard, > >draw a Seduction, replace it and draw a Perfect Clarity and use > >both modifiers as I declare my action? > > You need not hold the modifiers in-hand at the time you play the action > card; it's legal to play a just-drawn modifier after the action card is > played. We call that 'Topdecking' (IE the playing of -more then 1- card that you just drew to replace the action, you lucky ducky!) It's really great when you win a tournament doing that! :-P -- Aaron The Nosferatu Stuff

Roger Carhult wrote:> I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. My action is stopped > > with Direct Intervention. Do I pay for Perfect Clarity even though > > there is no longer an action to modify? > > You are not allowed to play Perfect if someone plays DI. The problem here is that with the timing ruling for DI and Rewind Time is that the reacting Metuselah is allowed to wait until Perfect Clarity is played before he/she decides to react. In the thread that promted me to start this one the example with Seduction was not ruled illegal in itself, so I will be allowed to play (or at least show) that modifier before the reaction is played. I guess that properly (and horribly slowly) all actions have to be played like: Action-declaration -> Waiting for everyone to decline to react to 'as card/action is played' -> playing first modifier that has to be played 'when action is announced' -> waiting for everyone... -> playing second... Gameflow will crawl to a halt, and so in reality most people clump together cards that are played 'in groups' before checking sequenzing-order. > > > > I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. Direct Intervention. > > Do I tabe both actioncard and modifier back to my hand? > > You shouldn't have played PC in the first place, and GtU is burned and > discarded, not taken back to hand (card text of DI). > See above. > > > I Govern with Perfect, replace both cards and someone plays > > Direct Intervention. I now have eight (or nine) cards on hand. > > Do I discard down to hand-size or do my fellow Metuselahs > > have to trust me as I say that I put back the two last drawn > > cards on top of my Library? > > You do only replace GtU and since you weren't allowed to play PC before DI > you have done an illegal play. > See above. > > > (Cornercase) In the latter case, have I just broken the rules > > by seeing the two top cards of my library? > > Yes, but you've only seen the top card since you should replace GtU anyway > as it is burned and not taken back to hand. > > > There is a similar problem with Delaying Tactics. If I don't play > > any modifiers during the referendum I'll have eight cards on > > hand, but it doesn't say how to handle that situation. > > This one I know for sure :) Answer is that you discard down to your handsize > as you take back the card. I think this is the case, but several cards have a wording stating that you discard down to handsize. In this case there is nothing to be found neither in card-text nor in the errata. Is there a general rule handling oversized hands? Sten During -- Calvia TerraTel AB http://www.netg.se/ Tankegangen 4 in...@netg.se 417 56 Goteborg Phone:+46 - (0)31 - 50 79 45 Sweden Fax: +46 - (0)31 - 50 79 39

In message <3BF0E342...@netg.se>, Sten During <ya...@netg.se> writes: >The problem here is that with the timing ruling for DI and >Rewind Time is that the reacting Metuselah is allowed to >wait until Perfect Clarity is played before he/she decides >to react. If you suspect this is likely to happen, leave a small gap after playing each card. If you see a Trujah out, you could always ask "Rewind?" after the playing of cards. -- James Coupe Everybody knows that "No" means "Yes" PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Just like glasses come free on the NHS EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 But the more I look through them the more I see 13D7E668C3695D623D5D I'm becoming more like Alfie

Sten During wrote: > > Roger Carhult wrote:> I Govern the Unaligned with Perfect Clarity. My action is > stopped > > > > with Direct Intervention. Do I pay for Perfect Clarity even though > > > there is no longer an action to modify? > > > > You are not allowed to play Perfect if someone plays DI. > > The problem here is that with the timing ruling for DI and > Rewind Time is that the reacting Metuselah is allowed to > wait until Perfect Clarity is played before he/she decides > to react. No, she's not. See the google URL's posted in my responses to the RT/DI thread yesterday. > In the thread that promted me to start this one the example > with Seduction was not ruled illegal in itself, so > I will be allowed to play (or at least show) that modifier > before the reaction is played. Only if you do so before allowing the other Methuselahs the opportunity to cancel the GtU. > I guess that properly (and horribly slowly) all actions have > to be played like: > > Action-declaration -> Waiting for everyone to decline to > react to 'as card/action is played' -> playing first modifier > that has to be played 'when action is announced' -> > waiting for everyone... -> playing second... Right, per the google URLs posted yesterday. > Gameflow will crawl to a halt, and so in reality most > people clump together cards that are played 'in groups' > before checking sequenzing-order. Right. This shouldn't be that big of a problem. > > > There is a similar problem with Delaying Tactics. If I don't play > > > any modifiers during the referendum I'll have eight cards on > > > hand, but it doesn't say how to handle that situation. > > > > This one I know for sure :) Answer is that you discard down to your handsize > > as you take back the card. > > I think this is the case, but several cards have a wording stating that you > discard down to handsize. In this case there is nothing to be found > neither in card-text nor in the errata. Is there a general rule handling > oversized hands? Yes. [1.6.1.2] -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > > > There is a similar problem with Delaying Tactics. If I don't play > > > > any modifiers during the referendum I'll have eight cards on > > > > hand, but it doesn't say how to handle that situation. > > > > > > This one I know for sure :) Answer is that you discard down to your handsize > > > as you take back the card. > > > > I think this is the case, but several cards have a wording stating that you > > discard down to handsize. In this case there is nothing to be found > > neither in card-text nor in the errata. Is there a general rule handling > > oversized hands? > > Yes. [1.6.1.2] > Yes, I guess that covers it, even though the rule actually handles changes to handsize whereas in the the Delaying Tactics case my handsize actually didn't change - I just happen to sit with one more card than my (unchanged) handsize allows. Still, this would be nitpicking :) [ quoted text not captured ]