Summon History

Summon History Type: Action Cost: X blood tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed). TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. So, uhhh... WTF? Apparently the acting minion doesn't even have to meet the requirements of the searched card so you can get Ankara Citadel with the first Summoning and, I dunno, Renegade Garous that cost 2 blood with the second? Free Tangles and Guarded Rubrics to go with them? Assault rifle for 2 blood? War Ghoul for 1 blood? Ponticulus and Talbot's Chainsaw for a total of 2 blood? Erebus Mask if Tangle and that new Temporis stealth card isn't enough? Am I crazy or is this broken?

Please, if the new deck emerges from this, call it Trujah Goes Shopping.

[ quoted text not captured ] Renegade Garou, Assault Rifle etc. cost pool, not blood.

[ quoted text not captured ] Summon History costs X blood and puts a card that costs X on the table. Doesn't matter whether the target card costs blood, pool, convictions or potatoes, Summon History converts it into a blood cost.

On 3 helmi, 13:37, "Ivan ." <ivanjel2...@gmail.com> wrote: > Please, if the new deck emerges from this, call it Trujah Goes > Shopping. Why even restrict it to Trujah when anyone with an Agent of Power or Amulet of Temporal Perception can do it?

[ quoted text not captured ] > convictions or potatoes, Summon History converts it into a blood cost.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - yea , its not an equip action and it does not force you per cardtext to pay any cost apart from the cost of the actioncard.

[ quoted text not captured ] > convictions or potatoes, Summon History converts it into a blood cost.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Pending an LSJ confirmation, right now I'm inclined to agree with suoli. Cards that specify costs have previously specified the type of cost incurred. See Ankara Citadel, Kindred Segregation, etc etc. To my mind, there's no inferred 'type' of cost, just because the card costs blood. The card costs X blood, the card you place as a result has nothing to do with it, aside from controlling the value of x. Of course, pending me seeing a card itself, we've no way of being 100% this text is accurate. Side Comedy: How about a Reanimated Corpse? (Okay, my mind fried a little there, but it's kind of worth bringing up)

On 3 феб, 13:16, Shockwave <d_knowles...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Of course, pending me seeing a card itself, we've no way of being 100% > this text is accurate. would this convince you? http://cgi.ebay.com/Summon-History-VTES-HttB_W0QQitemZ190370352332QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c52f50ccc

[ quoted text not captured ] this will only make Frederick the Weak decks stronger... ;) yeah, this is one of those "things that make you go 'hmm?'" cards. i still postulate that most CCG design goes through a few brainstorm meetings, with a power gamer munchkin, rules lawyer, self-tortured thespian, and a very beleaguered lead designer. thus no one gets any time to recheck the creations and glaringly obvious head scratchers like the above mentioned get through. though this might be true for business reality in general... ;)

[ quoted text not captured ] c'mon. It's not that drastic. it's 0 stealth action. You block it. No biggie. it can be used only by a True Brujah. It's not like Trujah swept the tables at the tournaments. You have to throw a bone to a weakly participating clan once in a while and refresh the field a little. I think it will enable several interesting variants of this deck with different equipment/retainer package and you'll have to think a bit to see exactly what they are up to. I like it.

[ quoted text not captured ] Maybe if the Trujah didn't just get a free stealth card as well. Or if Gwyedd couldn't play it with a discount Beast Meld. Or if Ian couldn't play it with free Under My Skin and Blithe Acceptance. But as it is, I really, really believe that it's too good.

[ quoted text not captured ] right now, I don't see why this would be better than tons of existing decks that do not work (or at least are not big archetypes) such as alastors or ankara citadels. Most obvious reasons why it is not going to work regularly in tournaments are pentex subversion, card flow, lack of defense to bleed/stealth and combat... Now the card remains good, but I personnally would not focus on it in a deck, except if I would find a combo far more broken than "renegade garou for 2 pools)

On 3 helmi, 15:15, orianice <coincoinmas...@hotmail.com> wrote: > right now, I don't see why this would be better than tons of existing > decks that do not work (or at least are not big archetypes) such as > alastors or ankara citadels. Most obvious reasons why it is not going > to work regularly in tournaments are pentex subversion, card flow, > lack of defense to bleed/stealth and combat... Now the card remains > good, but I personnally would not focus on it in a deck, except if I > would find a combo far more broken than "renegade garou for 2 pools) I dunno. It's blood, not pool, Mata+War Ghouls have already won tournaments and all you need is one card+stealth per turn. Allies and equipment can be discarded and played from the ash heap. Even just Talbot, Ponticulus and Pocket Out of Time seem pretty solid already.

> I dunno. It's blood, not pool, Mata+War Ghouls have already won > tournaments and all you need is one card+stealth per turn. -> Not sure what the common point with Mata + war ghouls might be, since Mata can recruit ghouls directly, so card flow is better. On the opposite, it uses pool, not blood, so definitely not much in common -> You cannot get most of those cards without using the "summon history" way so how do you manage to keep a steady amount of summon history without hand jamming? It is just an open question 2 turns to get a trujah out, 1 turn to get ankara citadel, you start recruiting on T4 at best if nothing bad happens. Then you have one rush, and it's your predator's bleeding T5. If he has not killed you by then, you can start playing... does not look weak, does not look broken as you put it into your first message. A broken card is "blessing of the beast". Summon history is a nice card.

On 3 helmi, 16:03, orianice <coincoinmas...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I dunno. It's blood, not pool, Mata+War Ghouls have already won > > tournaments and all you need is one card+stealth per turn. > > -> Not sure what the common point with Mata + war ghouls might be, > since Mata can recruit ghouls directly, so card flow is better. On the > opposite, it uses pool, not blood, so definitely not much in common I'm saying that paying with blood is better than paying with pool. Yeah, not automatically true, but in this case I argue it is. > -> You cannot get most of those cards without using the "summon > history" way so how do you manage to keep a steady amount of summon > history without hand jamming? It is just an open question 8 Summons and 8 or so Summonables in a 60-70 card deck? Hourglass of the Mind and the usual suspects to help out? Card flow doesn't seem like a problem to me. > 2 turns to get a trujah out, 1 turn to get ankara citadel, you start > recruiting on T4 at best if nothing bad happens. Then you have one > rush, and it's your predator's bleeding T5. If he has not killed you > by then, you can start playing... does not look weak, does not look > broken as you put it into your first message. If you're feeling threatened you could Summon Ponticulus/Wyk/ Asanbonsam Ghoul first, whatever works best. Or bring out a chump blocker with your main vampire. Or, if you're using Nehemiah, you can afford to include Majesty without jamming. Krassimir and Ian have access to Deflection and are both g2. [ quoted text not captured ]

*** ASSUMING SUMMON HISTORY CAN BE USED ON CARDS THAT COST POOL *** Name: Tariq eats the world with his friends. CRYPT 4x Tariq, The Silent 4x Tariq, The Silent ADV 4x Ellen Fence, the Tracker MASTER 9x Agent of Power 1x Wider View 1x Perfectionist 1x The Barrens 1x Trophy: Domain 1x Trophy: Hunting Ground 1x Trophy: Revered 1x Celerity ACTION 17x Summon History 3x Red List 2x Assault Rifle 2x Black Spiral Buddy 2x Renegade Garou 1x Flamethrower 1x Remnant of the Endless Storm 1x Harzomatuili 1x High Top 1x Ossian 1x Helicopter 1x Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The 1x Bowl of Convergence 1x Heart of Nizchetus 1x Amulet of Temporal Perception ACTION MODIFIER 7x Forced March 4x Swallowed by the Night 2x Lost in Crowds COMBAT 4x Blur 4x Flash 4x Sideslip EVENT 3x The Unmasking REACTION 5x Eyes of Argus 5x Telepathic Misdirection Tariq quickly equip Ankara Citadel, untaps with forced march, equips Helicopter, Next round... Heart of Nizchetus... Heart and Barrens to cycle cards (doesn't matter if allies and equipment is in ash heap, Summon History picks it up anyway). Ellen Fence, the Tracker borrows an Assault Rifle and later on a Flame Thrower. Ellens job is to place red lists, borrow assault rifle/flame thrower from tariq and send stuff to torpor so tariq can eat it. Allies defend or jump forward depending on situation.

where should I start? I am not even considering the fact that you're summoning at 0 stealth every action with 6 stealth cards in all the deck. let's admit your predator and your prey do not want to block Tariq. > > Tariq quickly equip Ankara Citadel, -> 1 blood left untaps with forced march, equips > Helicopter (because you are lucky you got it in your starting hand, sure, why not), -> 0 blood left Next round... Heart of Nizchetus... -> block the hunt before, end of the game thanks, good deck. the best in this thread at least. :-p

On 3 Feb, 16:00, orianice <coincoinmas...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Helicopter (because you are lucky you got it in your starting hand, sure, why not), -> 0 blood left Cardtext: "Search your library and/or ash heap". Granted, initial blood is an issue but that is also solvable... there are 17 Summon History... How about adding a 0 cost Cooler... 4 blood should be sufficient until Perfectionist or Trophy: Hunting Ground is in your possession. > Next round... Heart of Nizchetus... > -> block the hunt before, end of the game Sure, if 13 stealth cards (don't forget the +1 stealth from forced march) isn't enough. Throw out an action or two (you don't really need all those allies and you can remove of of the summons) and include Ambulance, Malajit Chandramouli and/or Polaris Coach for some permanent stealth.

> > -> block the hunt before, end of the game > > Sure, if 13 stealth cards (don't forget the +1 stealth from forced > march) isn't enough. Throw out an action or two (you don't really need > all those allies and you can remove of of the summons) and include > Ambulance, Malajit Chandramouli and/or Polaris Coach for some > permanent stealth. I am not, tariq does not get +1 stealth from forced march, unless you have 2 agent of powers in your hand and are willing to play both you could play Drum of xipe topec to avoid that, though.

I do think there was some reason why it was not ok to equip out of clan stuff like Ankara Citadel. I can see this as being able to pull out 10-11 cap vamps every turn. If you can get past slow start, could be as bad as any baby making deck but with every baby having 2-4 votes to start. Look for vamps that have 2-4 votes and have any lvl of obfuscate. Makes Dmitra Ilyanova + Lutz a little hot. Focus on bloating, by the time first player is knocked off table (if its not you, most be working) you will have a swarm of vote lock and + bleeders. Vamp life would have become cheap as well.

[ quoted text not captured ] Agent of Power is unique. best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, I am potentially seeing something that goes like... Zillah's Valley + 4 Transfers = 8 cap 8Cap uses 7 blood to bring out of Crypt a 7cap 7Cap uses 6 blood to bring out of Crypt a 6cap... Giant's Blood 8 Cap There could be some massive shennanigans going on...

On Feb 3, 6:02 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Zillah's Valley + 4 Transfers = 8 cap > 8Cap uses 7 blood to bring out of Crypt a 7cap > 7Cap uses 6 blood to bring out of Crypt a 6cap... Giant's Blood 8 Cap > > There could be some massive shennanigans going on... How did the 7-cap get any blood on him? There certainly were some shenanigans in that scenario. "TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. " - D.J.

"suoli" <suolir...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:dc66b63f-8481-40de...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] One little 'gotcha' in the inferior version: I notice you're not allowed to play cards out of your hand. So if you were counting on playing Summon History for, say, Ankara Citadel and then before the start of your turn you draw your only copy of Ankara Citadel, then you have to figure out a way to discard it before you can declare the Summon History action. Be a REAL shame if you were to draw your only Ankara Citadel to replace the Summon History itself... Fred

On Feb 3, 3:33 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > "suoli" <suoliruse...@gmail.com> wrote in message [ quoted text not captured ] i think the imbued have showed us that getting things into the ash heap is pretty reliable tech now. and if Ankara is that critical, and the combo so easily and obviously ruined by drawing 1 card, it would be a glaring deck design flaw to leave it not addressed. i see what you are saying, but i don't really buy it that it balances things out. the big thing that strikes me from this card is how ridiculously open- ended this card is and how it throws a nasty curve ball to costs as a balancing tool. every set introduces at least some new allies, retainers, and equipment, therefore every set potentially explodes the power curve of this card. (compare to cards that grant just +1 stealth or just S:CE; a fixed resource. though extremely useful, has little chance to explode utility through gross combos). further, the card (as written) circumvents just about all external cost balancing measures, so trait and pool requirements would have to migrate into the text box or be essentially looked with a jaundiced eye during design. i understand upping the power curve, especially for a clan that needs help. but w/ it's big effect at basic, and Agent of Power or the new TEM equipment, it's opening dangerous doors. Tutor effects = very strong, cost circumventers = worrisome setup for combos. with cost dividers like Ankara around, very, very worrisome doors opened. whether something grotesque comes through changes from an 'if' to a 'when'. open-ended effects have sent more than one CCG into a tailspin; they are just so hard to balance. i feel my concerns are warranted, even if they are premature.

What about using the highest cap Trujah with TEM in whatever grouping you prefer and the lowest Salubri with OBE within that grouping. Influence out both, in whatever order for best initial defence. Start using Summon History to bring out the rest of the crypt (- having selected a crypt of whichever vamps suit the angle you want = bleed, combat, etc). Possibly include OBF in crypt to use Cloak or Veil to gain additional 1-2 stealth. After each SH, the salubri plays Renewed Vigor to recharge the Trujah, or fill up the newly summoned vamps. True this is not broken, but might offer some possibilities. Keep in mind it's plausible to get some of the Trujah to act 4 times a turn... Oh yeah, obviously you'd Ankara citadel out with the first SH. I think it's safe to assume Ankara will automatically go into every deck that has 1 or more SH ;-) Another tactic, Influence out Mikael Birkholm. SH out Ankara (plus other stuff - eg: clotho's gift, etc). SH out AK47. SH Dog pack. Kill all minions on table (Lapse, target vitals, target vitals). If bored, SH out Renegade (just because you can!!) V exciting to see Trujah FINALLY get at least ONE card that is powerful, and vaguely reflects what Temporis can do. It s t o p s time for god's sake!!

Though i'd also agree partially with Azel above. I think it's gr8 the Trujah get access to cards that may make them slightly more playable, rather than novelty wallpaper for the last 10 yrs. However, doing that and then making the most outstanding card awesome at inferior is possibly going to benefit every other vamp in the game almost as much (that whole powercurve thing). This is due to an equipment card in the same expansion or Agent of Power or Spontaneous power granting anyone inferior Temporis. Seems kind of strange given virtually all other temporis cards suck at inferior and have potential (maybe) at superior. Tho i hv to admit, the superior may prove to be even more awesome. It will be interesting to see how it goes given it replaces and exceeds Magic of the Smith with the obvious necessity of giving a rare discipline to a vamp first; and potentially can make any vamp into a partial Mata Hari. Maybe that means its a more powerful combo/strategy, but harder to pull off. Maybe... Btw, I should probably say also that the expansion generally looks AWESOME for the Bloodline clans - maybe 75% of all the cards are playable; maybe even 40-50% could be commonly used in (appropriate) decks, even if only 1-2 copies. Much greater yield than many other expansions. And much of it devoted to clans that have sucked for far too long.

suoli wrote: > Summon History > Type: Action > Cost: X blood > > tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or > equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this > vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed). > TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with > capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. > > So, uhhh... WTF? Apparently the acting minion doesn't even have to > meet the requirements of the searched card so you can get Ankara > Citadel with the first Summoning and, I dunno, Renegade Garous that > cost 2 blood with the second? Free Tangles and Guarded Rubrics to go > with them? Assault rifle for 2 blood? War Ghoul for 1 blood? > Ponticulus and Talbot's Chainsaw for a total of 2 blood? Erebus Mask > if Tangle and that new Temporis stealth card isn't enough? Am I crazy > or is this broken? I'd like to get some answers from LSJ: 1). Can I search for a card that cost pool at inferior or not? 2). Can I search for a card with requirements that the acting vampire doesn't correspond? 3). Do I understand it right that Summoned allies and vampires can act on the same turn? If all three answers would be "yes", then the card would really seems to be a bit too powerful. It would allow to equip clan-specific allies for a cheap price AND these allies would act immediately (neither regular recruit action nor Piper allows that). I guess the answer 2 should be "no" (which will probably require an errata). The card will still remain powerful enough, but it wouldn't allow to summon Ankara Citadel, Garous or War Ghouls without Amulet or Clan Impersonation. Gentlemen, why do you miss the *superior* ability of the card? Summoning a 4-cap vampire will save roughly 8 transfers (4 transfers to get the vampire + 4 more to influence it). A political PRE-weenie based on Synesios will allow him to restore blood via Voter Caps. Such deck could generate a huge swarm during the first 5-6 turns!

"Ector" <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote in message news:b3c00448-6051-45aa...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... > Gentlemen, why do you miss the *superior* ability of the card? > Summoning a 4-cap vampire will save roughly 8 transfers (4 transfers > to get the vampire + 4 more to influence it). A political PRE-weenie > based on Synesios will allow him to restore blood via Voter Caps. Such > deck could generate a huge swarm during the first 5-6 turns! I'm confused. How do PRE-weenies help Synesios use Voter Caps to restore blood? First of all, he'll never have the blood from his starting cache to bring out more than one or two weenies - even if you've managed to draw more than two Summon History cards that early. Secondly, in order to win the votes with enough dominance to Voter Cap up his blood, the weenies would have to call Crusades or Praxis Seizures on themselves. Expect total resistance by every other vote on the board. I suppose you might expect to influence out one or two presence weenies as well. But I still think the deck will start very slow, frequently flounder on bad opening draws, and be extremely vulnerable to a predator that can bring heavy bleed early and anyone on the table who can rush or intercept and somehow get around whatever combat defense you setup for Synesios. These kinds of decks are a lot harder to actually build and play effectively than they are to talk about. Fred

Frederick Scott wrote: > "Ector" <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote in message > news:b3c00448-6051-45aa...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... > > Gentlemen, why do you miss the *superior* ability of the card? > > Summoning a 4-cap vampire will save roughly 8 transfers (4 transfers > > to get the vampire + 4 more to influence it). A political PRE-weenie > > based on Synesios will allow him to restore blood via Voter Caps. Such > > deck could generate a huge swarm during the first 5-6 turns! > > I'm confused. How do PRE-weenies help Synesios use Voter Caps to > restore blood? First of all, he'll never have the blood from his > starting cache to bring out more than one or two weenies - even if > you've managed to draw more than two Summon History cards that early. > Secondly, in order to win the votes with enough dominance to Voter > Cap up his blood, the weenies would have to call Crusades or Praxis > Seizures on themselves. Expect total resistance by every other vote > on the board. I'm talking about Crusades/Praxis Seizures/Justicars, for sure. Theoretically, Synesios can play a voting action, refill with Voter Cap, untap with Domain of Evernight and then play Summon History each turn :) Actually, things aren't going to be so bright, but he will Summon 3-4 weenies per game. > I suppose you might expect to influence out one or two presence > weenies as well. But I still think the deck will start very slow, > frequently flounder on bad opening draws, and be extremely vulnerable > to a predator that can bring heavy bleed early and anyone on the > table who can rush or intercept and somehow get around whatever combat > defense you setup for Synesios. > > These kinds of decks are a lot harder to actually build and play > effectively than they are to talk about. No decks can auto-win after they draw their hand. Please remember that Synesious can summon some allies to help slowing the predator, and voting decks are known for their pool generation.

"Ector" <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote in message news:12f197de-82fc-410b...@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... > Frederick Scott wrote: >> I suppose you might expect to influence out one or two presence >> weenies as well. But I still think the deck will start very slow, >> frequently flounder on bad opening draws, and be extremely vulnerable >> to a predator that can bring heavy bleed early and anyone on the >> table who can rush or intercept and somehow get around whatever combat >> defense you setup for Synesios. >> >> These kinds of decks are a lot harder to actually build and play >> effectively than they are to talk about. > > No decks can auto-win after they draw their hand. Yea, but some decks have a lot better shot at surviving bad opening draws than others. I believe this one is so slow and has so many moving parts that it will survive a bad opening draw very poorly! > Please remember that > Synesious can summon some allies to help slowing the predator, Well, assuming the problem isn't failure to draw any Summon History cards or the stealth to get the 0-stealth Summon History cards past a preditor, that may be true. And, in so doing, he'll have to pay more blood for Carlton Van Wyck or whoever you throw out to delay. And allies are notoriously bad for dealing with any amount of real stealth. > and voting decks are known for their pool generation. They are. But this voting deck will take some time to setup to get to that point, I think, and that's a big problem. Once you've achieved voting dominance, you should be all right. Er, assuming you can then draw your offensive votes... Fred

On Feb 4, 10:42 am, Ector <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote: > suoli wrote: > > Summon History > > Type: Action > > Cost: X blood > > > tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or > > equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this > > vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed). > > TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with > > capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. > > I'd like to get some answers from LSJ: > > 1). Can I search for a card that cost pool at inferior or not? X pool (or less), sure. Quoted text: "whose cost is X or less". > 2). Can I search for a card with requirements that the acting vampire > doesn't correspond? Yes. > 3). Do I understand it right that Summoned allies and vampires can act > on the same turn? Yes.

On Feb 4, 11:43 am, Ector <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote: > I'm talking about Crusades/Praxis Seizures/Justicars, for sure. > Theoretically, Synesios can play a voting action, refill with Voter > Cap, untap with Domain of Evernight and then play Summon History each > turn :) Looks to me like Summon History isn't the problem card in that chain, though. (Hint: it rhymes with "Motor Snap.") - D.J.

[ quoted text not captured ] thanks for the clarification. well, it's as strong as we feared it would be. so... who can create the most reliable and/or gross combo deck with this card? let the Deus Ex Machina fun begin! :D Anneke Stops Everything! Anneke, Agent of Power, Ankara, SH, Sniper/ Assault Rifle, and War Ghouls? Arika Summons the Inner Circle. Arika, Agent + TEM equip/Spontaneous Power, Ankara, SH, and IC members. Nu Summons the Inner Circle. Nu, SH, Ankara, My Kin Against the World, Voter Cap let's get creative! :)

umm ... block anneke? Arika, etc could be mighty scary tho ;-)

[ quoted text not captured ] I guess it would be Nehemiah (for his ability to dig for combo parts) or Lydia (for her great stealth and intercept abilities). Amulet is an extra part that makes the deck too complicated. After all, you'll need Ankara anyway :) I'm completely amazed by the power of Summon History. Clan-specific allies are generally designed to be better than average. Now you can summon any of them (advantage!) for blood instead of pool (advantage!), possibly for half blood with Ankara (advantage) and they can act immediately (advantage!!!). Hope this card isn't going to be banned :)

[ quoted text not captured ] > Arika Summons the Inner Circle. Arika, Agent + TEM equip/Spontaneous > Power, Ankara, SH, and IC members. The TEM equipment won't work for this - it only allows a vampire to play cards using basic Temporis, it doesn't actually give the vampire any levels of Temporis (excluding draft). Infernal Pact, on the other hand, should work, which allows one to add the missing Clan Impersonation step.

Ector wrote: > >>>>> Summon History >>>>> Hope this card isn't going to be > banned :) Well, play it until it breaks, then see if it needs to be banned. At this point, it looks "good on paper", I want to see it fly in the real world... best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, seriously. I mean, folks do realize that sets get playtested, right? I'd assume, based on the fact that very little that actually proves to be broken gets released, that the playtesters actually do a decent job of catching stuff. I suppose it remains to be seen whether this got missed in playtest, or whether the Chicken Littles are just Chicken Littles, but... - D.J.

[ quoted text not captured ] You'll need to play an Agent of Power every turn you want to play a Summon History so I think it would be easier to have Anneke Alastor equip to her friends and she can equip it back from them. Doesn't help you get War Ghouls though. > Arika Summons the Inner Circle. Arika, Agent + TEM equip/Spontaneous > Power, Ankara, SH, and IC members. So you'll have to spend 3 turns getting Arika out, then first action is for Ankara once you spend even more of your pool on Spontaneous Power and then you can finally get the combo rolling. Govern down, Freak, Vote, Voter Cap repeat is probably a better way to summon some friends. > Nu Summons the Inner Circle. Nu, SH, Ankara, My Kin Against the World, > Voter Cap > I think you would be better off with Synesios since he's easier to get into play in 2 turns and the obf will come in handy for stealth (and obf stealth vs tem stealth overlaps better weith your summoned ICs). > let's get creative! :)- Hide quoted text - > Nehemiah looks like your man to put clan specific allies into play. If you draw them early you can place them on the bottom your library during your untap phase. If you can find a good source of blood bloat for Nehemiah you might be better off skipping the Ankara Citadel step and going straight to putting some strong allies into play. I'll definitely make some sort of stupid Summon History deck, but I don't expect to be tearing up the tournament scene with it. Later, ~Rehlow

What abt: Trujah highcap SH's Ankara. Next turn SH's out Nergal. Tap heidelberg to transfer a bit of blood to Nerg so he doesn't auto-hunt. Instead Nergal plays call the great beast. Select TEM/OBF and either PRE or OBE (or go a combat duo with TEM). Next turn SH out Nergal again with the trujah. So 3 turns after ur first trujah emerges, you have 3 high cap minions, 2 of which hv TEM. From there, you can bring out any other vamps in the crypt and stuff in the library, and either go combat, bleed or vote, or any combo that takes ur fancy ;-) Also could easily use the grp 6 vamps instead - all the trujah could hv their uses, and The unnamed could be fun! Another option - as above but bring out FoS's instead of Baali, and fry a few of them w Khobar for some bloating... The fun just doesn't stop!! ... I'm guessing this card will be super super rare and v v v expensive ;-(

Rehlow wrote: > Nehemiah looks like your man to put clan specific allies into play. If > you draw them early you can place them on the bottom your library > during your untap phase. If you can find a good source of blood bloat > for Nehemiah you might be better off skipping the Ankara Citadel step > and going straight to putting some strong allies into play. > > I'll definitely make some sort of stupid Summon History deck, but I > don't expect to be tearing up the tournament scene with it. > > Later, > ~Rehlow Actually, I've changed my mind about the best Trujah for Summon History. Al-Muntathir is the man. AUS/FOR provides good defense and good synergy with !Ventrue, like Neighbour John. Obfuscate provides stealth. Black Hand provides very good cards for such deck: Drop Point Network can fetch a copy of Summon History, and having to put too many SHs is bad. But the best combo is Art of Memory. Can you imagine playing SH, stealth, then Art of Memory to return SH back? :)

On Feb 4, 4:42 pm, Ector <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote: > suoli wrote: > > Summon History > > Type: Action > > Cost: X blood > > > tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or > > equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this > > vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed). > > TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with > > capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. > > > So, uhhh... WTF? Apparently the acting minion doesn't even have to > > meet the requirements of the searched card so you can get Ankara > > Citadel with the first Summoning and, I dunno, Renegade Garous that > > cost 2 blood with the second? Free Tangles and Guarded Rubrics to go > > with them? Assault rifle for 2 blood? War Ghoul for 1 blood? > > Ponticulus and Talbot's Chainsaw for a total of 2 blood? Erebus Mask > > if Tangle and that new Temporis stealth card isn't enough? Am I crazy > > or is this broken? > > I'd like to get some answers from LSJ: > > 1). Can I search for a card that cost pool at inferior or not? Yes > 2). Can I search for a card with requirements that the acting vampire > doesn't correspond? Yes > 3). Do I understand it right that Summoned allies and vampires can act > on the same turn? Yes Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap.

One more question for LSJ; Say if I summon History a War Ghoul, do i need to sac an ally or retainer. Or is that cost part of the recruit parts and seizes to exist when i play it with summon. Might be important, otherwise i might have some rock solid deck in the works.

On Feb 9, 2:56 pm, Renau Kint <renauk...@gmail.com> wrote: > One more question for LSJ; > > Say if I summon History a War Ghoul, do i need to sac an ally or > retainer. Card text: "When War Ghoul enters play, burn an ally or retainer you control." If you Summon History a War Ghoul, the War Ghoul enters play. > Or is that cost part of the recruit parts and seizes to > exist when i play it with summon. Card text indicates it is not part of the recruit part.

On Feb 9, 2:42 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your > brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap. Concert Tour is the answer to this problem. Kevin Walsh

On Feb 9, 4:36 pm, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your > > brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap. > Concert Tour is the answer to this problem. I disagree. Renewed Vigor would be a much better answer to the problem of a new vampire with 0 blood and lots of capacity. Heidelburg should definitely also make an appearance. That way you don't have to be summoning Qadir or Mata Hari or Daughters of Cacophony. I'd think that an end of predators turn Summon History (Enkil Cog) followed up by a sacrifice to Khobar Towers/Golconda/etc. wouldn't be completely unthinkable either. House of Sorrows / The Coven will be a strong combo with this as will Jake Washington (in quantity).

On Feb 9, 3:48 pm, The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 9, 4:36 pm, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > > > Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your > > > brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap. > > Concert Tour is the answer to this problem. Concert Tour is of very limited use; the new vampire comes into play and still has to hunt before they get a chance to play Concert Tour. Yeah, it'll be useful next turn, but that still hasn't solved the 'I'm a big vampire empty and hunting' issue. > I disagree. Renewed Vigor would be a much better answer to the > problem of a new vampire with 0 blood and lots of capacity. > Heidelburg should definitely also make an appearance. That way you > don't have to be summoning Qadir or Mata Hari or Daughters of > Cacophony. Heidleberg is a good answer. Renewed Vigor suffers the same "my vampire must hunt asap and get Renewed Vigor'ed later" problem. > House of Sorrows / The Coven will be a strong combo with this as will > Jake Washington (in quantity). The Coven's a great idea. Jake Washington less so, since presumably the new vampire being brought in isn't likely to be both ready and empty at the start of your next turn - not nearly as likely as he is to have one blood. Still a viable solution though, since it's easy enough to get 1 blood off of that vampire (via a Blood Doll, or other means.) Ideally, you want to have a way to immediately get blood onto that vampire before he has to take his (immediate) mandatory hunt action; Heidleberg and/or the Coven are the best options. Failing that, you'd like to have some way (that costs 0 blood) to make sure that the hunt doesn't immediately get blocked thus putting your free new vampire into torpor. -John Flournoy

On Feb 9, 11:12 pm, John Flournoy <carne...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 9, 3:48 pm, The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Feb 9, 4:36 pm, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > > > > Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your > > > > brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap. > > > Concert Tour is the answer to this problem. > > Concert Tour is of very limited use; the new vampire comes into play > and still has to hunt before they get a chance to play Concert Tour. > Yeah, it'll be useful next turn, but that still hasn't solved the 'I'm > a big vampire empty and hunting' issue. > > > I disagree. Renewed Vigor would be a much better answer to the > > problem of a new vampire with 0 blood and lots of capacity. > > Heidelburg should definitely also make an appearance. That way you > > don't have to be summoning Qadir or Mata Hari or Daughters of > > Cacophony. > > Heidleberg is a good answer. Renewed Vigor suffers the same "my > vampire must hunt asap and get Renewed Vigor'ed later" problem. So Heidelberg AND Renewed vigour did not occur to you? > > > House of Sorrows / The Coven will be a strong combo with this as will > > Jake Washington (in quantity). > > The Coven's a great idea. Jake Washington less so, since presumably > the new vampire being brought in isn't likely to be both ready and > empty at the start of your next turn - not nearly as likely as he is > to have one blood. Still a viable solution though, since it's easy > enough to get 1 blood off of that vampire (via a Blood Doll, or other > means.) > > Ideally, you want to have a way to immediately get blood onto that > vampire before he has to take his (immediate) mandatory hunt action; > Heidleberg and/or the Coven are the best options. Failing that, you'd > like to have some way (that costs 0 blood) to make sure that the hunt > doesn't immediately get blocked thus putting your free new vampire > into torpor. Well change oif target is good here, combined with maybe, um, renewed vigour from your free saulot/enosh? Enosh, btw, rocks. 2 free perma stealth on someone with obeah? sweeeeeet! > > -John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Need to find a non-scarce vamp with OBE though. TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a *non-scarce* vampire with capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. Later, ~Rehlow

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:50:58 -0800 (PST), Renau Kint wrote: >Do we have to sac an ally or retainer when War ghoul gets summoned? Yes. >LSJ might confirm the yes or the no? just to make sure no discussions >erupt for nothing. You might re-read card text, it seems pretty clear from here. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Cardlist_W#War_Ghoul "When War Ghoul enters play, burn an ally or retainer you control." and for emphasis "enters play" Not "is recruited", "enters play". No matter how the War Ghoul enters play, you must burn an ally or retainer you control.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:32:13 -0800 (PST), Rehlow wrote: >Need to find a non-scarce vamp with OBE though. Not really. Your vampire that isn't doing the Summon History can be brought into play normally. I would recommend Eurayle, if she matches your grouping. >TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a *non-scarce* vampire >with >capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. The one with no blood is the one that needs to receive the Renewed Vigor. (And the one playing the Summon History will need it too.) Summon History on your predator's turn with Enkil Cog and some form of blood movement (hunting ground, coven, etc., etc., etc.) followed up by a Renewed Vigor or Political Action Awe/Voter Captivation looks like a plan to me.

On Feb 9, 5:03 pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:32:13 -0800 (PST), Rehlow wrote: > >Need to find a non-scarce vamp with OBE though. > > Not really. Your vampire that isn't doing the Summon History can be > brought into play normally. I would recommend Eurayle, if she matches > your grouping. > Gotcha. If you were going to summon them you'd only need 1 in the crypt, but 4 Trujah, 4 Eurayle/other OBE, 4 others would work as a crypt. If you can summon more than 4 other vamps you probably already won. > >TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a *non-scarce* vampire > >with > >capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. > > The one with no blood is the one that needs to receive the Renewed > Vigor. (And the one playing the Summon History will need it too.) > Sure, summoning someone with OBE doesn't help you play Renewed Vigor on them. You'd still need something like Heidelburg to move blood back and forth. > Summon History on your predator's turn with Enkil Cog and some form of > blood movement (hunting ground, coven, etc., etc., etc.) followed up > by a Renewed Vigor or Political Action Awe/Voter Captivation looks > like a plan to me. Out of turn summoning does give you a longer window to summon a vampire and then get it blood before it has to hunt. Now I need to get some Enkil Cogs (still own 0) and more Summon History (opened 1 in 1 box). :( Later, ~Rehlow