(Report) LA Qualifer Weekend (Long)

Tournament Play-by-Play - LA Qualifier Weekend (One guy's perspective). I didn't follow all of the game results, so I can only relate the games that I played. Therefore, the entire post will be as ego-centric as you've come to expect from me. Day 1, Tournament #1 (12-13 players) I made a metagame choice thinking the qualifier was planned for the next day, not immediately after this tournament. So, I played a combat deck in a combat-heavy environment. Ooops. Round 1. Darby: 3-5 cap [ANI] Matt: Stanislava goes it alone Kevin: ?? Something dominatey ?? Mike: Mathias refills the sneaky bleedmonster ICs I fail to draw a single rush card or Raven Spy. So I mostly bleed and fail to block Mike. Matt fails to draw a single skill card for his Stanislava-based bleed cannon. Mike bleeds me for 8, then 6. Poof. Mike bleeds Matt for 6. Poof. Mike bleeds Kevin a bunch of times. Poof. Mike = 4 VP Sweep, GW. I heard from one of the other tables that ~20 vampires were sent to torpor in the 90 minutes of game time. Why do I doubt my maneuvers will be enough to keep me out of trouble? Round 2. Darby: 3-5 cap [ANI] Albert: 2-5 cap [ani][for] --> [ANI][FOR] Stuart: Prince [CEL] guns Paul: Mixed crypt toolbox/vote (library depletion) I bring up Lord Aston, who really helps my prey bulk up (doh!). I bang my head against Albert. Albert is getting the better of Stuart, who made some ill-considered blocks before gearing up. **KEY PLAY** Paul chooses to bleed with Bartholomew, whom I quickly catch dunk. Paul immediately offers to feed Albert pool (by Owain/Blood Doll) to contest Lord Aston. Albert accepts and I lose the services of Lord Aston. Albert gets Stuart, despite some crosstable rescues and Paul's last- minute attempts to prop up Stu. Albert starts to work on Paul, yet Paul continues to feed him pool for the contest (for a while) Finally, Paul starts to help me.....but too late to be impactful. I transfer out to prevent the humiliation of watching my prey sweep. Albert = 3 VP, GW. Paul = 1 VP (that single VP puts Paul in the finals) Finals Mike: Mathias refills the sneaky bleedmonster ICs Steve: [AUS][THA] Rotschrek Paul: Mixed crypt toolbox/vote (library depletion) Robert Scythe: Ahrimanes Albert: 2-5 cap [ani][for] --> [ANI][FOR] I didn't watch much of this, though an interesting thing happened in the late game. Mike was careful, not wanting to lose his vampires to Steve and not wanting to get deflected into Paul. He does get one Renewed Vigor/ Daring the Dawn off, but loses Mathias to a Graverobbing afterwards. So with the big bleeder slowed, the game is about to time out. Paul (5th seed), transfers out to Steve in the last minutes of the game. Steve = 1 VP, Tournament Win. Mike is second. Much angst ensues. Paul's rationale is that 1st seeds shouldn't feel so safe in their standing that they stagnate for 2 hours. Mike contests that his stagnation was required because high intercept/ Rotschrek trumps his deck and the other possibility (bounce) would have killed Paul. Either way, he loses. So, he's greatly disturbed by Paul's action - basically penalizing Mike for keeping Paul alive. Lively discussion follows. I'm just glad to have Paul stirring the pot again, heh heh. Day 1, Tournament #2 - LA QUALIFIER I choose a completely untested deck - I mean I didn't even sit down to run though library more than once. It's a fairly simple core (!Malk Kindred Spirits bleed) with Art of Memory to cycle out of excess bleed/ stealth and recur what I need, while offering low-cost Sibyl's Tongues (target = DI). I've liked Art of Memory for a long time, but it needed the right engine to fuel. Some that requires 3 components seems like the right answer (e.g., Bleed Action/Bleed Mod/Stealth Mod or Rush Action/ Stealth Mod/Combat Sequence). Art lets you selectively manage more complex cards in hand. Round 1. Darby: !Malk Black Hand Steve: !Malk Vote/Bleed Chris: Bleeder of some sort Dennis: Una vs. World redux 1 other - can't remember now, but everyone is a bleeder. I sit was Dennis' grandprey - the sweetspot for me. I bring up a couple of guys and lay into my prey. Dennis goes nuts and wipes out several vampires, then seems to end up rushless (or is just waiting). Both Steve and I have vampires out, with [DEM] I have a choice - to make a huge dent in Dennis and hope Steve kills him, or go for ousts. I can bleed for 7 or more easily, he has 12. I don't like the odds. I tell Dennis he's off the hook and bleed Steve like crazy, cycling bleed mods back into my hand with Art. Steve falls, Chris follows. Dennis gets his first prey, and I bleed him out. Darby = 4 VP, GW. Dennis = 1 VP. Round 2. Dennis: Una vs. World redux Paul: Some princely thing Darby: !Malk Black Hand Kevin: !Trememe [DOM] with allies. Una starts up, Paul DI's a Freak Drive. **KEY PLAY** Paul tries to Parity Shift, I DI it (instead of waiting for Dennis' next Freak Drive) Paul goes ballistic, but I didn't want him with more pool and I hope to gain Dennis as an ally I bleed Kevin, who now has 3 vampires and a Succubus up. Instead of having Una for an ally, she wipes the table clear in 1 turn (7 vampires total, including my 2) Dennis = 4 VP, GW. In this 4-player setting, I may have been better off helping to kill Dennis (crosstable bleed, DI a Freak Drive, crosstable bleed again), but I was hoping to squeak one VP out and I could see Una clearing the way for me. Round 3. Darby: !Malk Black Hand Albert: Anima Gathering something-or-other Matt: Anima Gathering [aus][pot] Robert G.: Anima Gathering Waters of Duat/Sniper Rifle. That's right. 3 Anima Gathering Decks and me. I come up fast and kill Albert before I have to worry about significant intercept. By this time, both Matt has 5 standing intercept plus [aus] cards, Robert has 4 standing and a KRCG. What else can I do? I charge into the 5 standing intercept with my bleeds, recycling Elder Impersonation with Art of Memory. **KEY PLAY** I'm close to getting Matt despite his 5+ intercept, when he deflects an Kindred Spirits/Art of Memory/ Faceless Night/Elder Impersonation into Robert. If I can either get by Robery, or convince him to eat the 2 pool loss, I can get the Elder Impersonation back and kill Matt. Robert chooses to block and I top out at about 4 stealth. **AMUSING SITUATION** Hagar goes to torpor and his special is a problem. I can't replace cards in my turn until he taps, and he doesn't like to tap in torpor. I don't want to rescue and waste resources in hunting with 2 playes showing 5+ intercept, so I make a deal with Robert for diablerie. Robert = 3 VP, GW, Darby = 1 VP I'm happy with the deck - Art of Memory is working out even better than planned. Finals. Darby (4th seed): !Malk Black Hand Alex (2rd seed): Malk '94 Steve (5th seed): !Malk Bleed/Vote Fred (3rd seed): Giovanni Power Bleed Dennis (1st seed): Una vs. World redux. Top 3 qualify. I'm 4th. I need a VP and have disasterous seating with Una on my right. I work on bringing up multiple vampires, hoping that a target-rich environment might cause Una some trouble. Alex follows my lead. So does Steve. But Fred brings up bleeders. Una arrives. I wait some more, so does Alex. Steve brings up a large vampire. Fred bleeds and gets to another vampire. ***KEY TURN*** (There is no key action with Una, she gets a whole turn to dumbfound us). Una goes nuts. She (nearly) empties her library, but faces FIVE S:CE from Fred. Fred still has a vampire at the end of all this. I count the rushes in Dennis' ash heap. Time to come up and pray for the best. 3 vampires, 2 of them Black Hand with [DEM][OBF]. Alex brings up 2 vampires - including Mariel Lady Thunder. I can't help but smile because I can see what will happen to Mariel. Fred bleeds some more and gets Le Din Tho up. **KEY TURN #2*** Dennis must kill Lady Thunder and Le Din Tho because of their card text (not to mention Le Din's [dom])They get burned. Dennis is now thinking "get to a 3-player to qualify" - so Alex's other vampire must die too. This means Dennis must leave all of the ! Malks alone. But, we both need VPs to qualify (4th and 5th seed). I figure that ousting Dennis actually hurts me. I tell Dennis that I won't backbleed or DI anything if he doesn't rush me. He's 1st seed and just has to sit and watch me bleed to qualify, as long as he can keep Fred minion-less. He's got a Sargon Fragment and Mylan Horseseed, wo he's OK for one rush a turn. He agrees. I bleed the heck out of Alex, cycling bleed back into my hand and dumping stealth. Alex dies somewhere in the flurry. I bringing up another minion, both for offense and a block if needed. Steve says he won't crosstable bleed Dennis and goes after Fred. Dennis says if he qualifies, he'll withdraw and let me and Steve fight it out. That leaves me even less reason to back-bleed, and more reason to get us to a 3-player. I bleed Steve for 2, he deflects. At this point, Fred just has to go. Dennis will follow (qualified) and I'll have the upper hand on Steve in the late game. I pump the deflected bleed to 4, cycling back the Eyes of Chaos. Then I Kindred Spirits Fred crosstable. Steve makes a sarcastic comment about not trusting him to get the job done. I give him a blank look and pump the bleed at at Fred. Steve gets Fred in his turn. Dennis withdraws. In the last 2 turns, I outbleed Steve by a significant margin, with Art of Memory continuing to jettison stealth and recycling bleed. Darby = 3 VP, GW, Tournament win. Steve = 1 VP, 2nd. Dennis = 0 VP, Qualify. Day 2, Tournament #3. (9 players?) I choose an Imbued Deck that I've been testing for a while. Round 1. Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) Kevin: Sebastian Goulet & Friends Fred: Ahrimanes Block/Lunge Robert: !Malk in Arcadia Kevin's up and running, putting pressure on Fred. Fred gets [ani] vampires, but no Howler. Robert bleeds into me, but Champion stops the unblockable bleeds. After I Angel of Berlin an Ivory Bow, Robert's vampires pay the price of bleeding. I finally get the the right music for the Dance and bleed Kevin for 12 at stealth. A turn later, he's dead. I think Robert back-bleeds Fred a couple of time for pool in there. I get Fred, then Robert. Darby = 4 VP Sweep, GW. Round 2. Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) Chris: Annabelle & Co. Bleed Matt: Eze High Aye Robert: !Malk in Arcadia Kevin: Sebastian Goulet & Friends I make a huge error, thinking React with Conviction is limited to discipline-based cards. I lose Jack Harmon to Sebastien before I read the card, but then back-contest with Kevin. That extra pool loss lets Robert get Kevin, and I get Jack again about 1/2way through the game (though without a couple of goodies I put on Jack). Meanwhile, I'm working on Chris, who almost has Matt. The table is set to collapse. I get Chris, bleeding despite Robert's bluff of Babble (which is in his deck). If I didn't get Chris right then, he gets Matt. Matt gets Robert in his turn. Matt and I duke it out until I'm at 3 pool and he has less than 9 (my bleed potential). If I get another turn, I kill Matt because he has no intercept. **KEY TURN** I block a bunch of stuff, DI and Determine a couple of votes. I block a bleed which could become 3 from a Eze with his [PRE][POT]. Matt fires off a majesty somewhere in the turn, and that untap enables an Ancient Influence. I die. As soon as I blocked the bleed, I knew I screwed up. I could have reduced the bleed by 1 even if it got pumped (leaving me with one), and blocked the vote. 2 significant errors in the game, and a well- played turn from Matt left me short. Matt = 3 VP, GW. Darby = 1 VP. Finals. Darby (2nd seed): Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) Robert: !Malk in Arcadia Steve: !Malk Bleed/Vote (again). Paul: IC exploits PTO Matt (1st seed): Eze High Aye Something of a surprise in seating, I didn't expect Eze to want to deal with intercept. But I'll take it, I guess. My deck plays crazy- good - the kind of thing you only dream of, but then worry about when it happens. I go 3rd, Play Dreams of the Sphinx, and get Inez up. Unmasking. Influences all around - it's a big vampire game. 2nd turn, Inez Inspires, 4 on Travis so up he comes. Edge Explosion. Robert starts bleeding. Steve piddles around. Leandro comes up from Paul. Oh happy days..... Eze comes up 3rd turn, Inez Inspires, Travis Special, Francois comes up. More of the same from everyone else. I Angel on a Sport Bike ***KEY TURN*** 4th turn. Pay Leandro. Francois Vigilance/Rejuvenate/Champion/Laptop/ Discern/Leather Jacket. Travis gets Viligence, Scrounges, then does his thing. Inez Inspires, influence Jennie. At this point, Robert convinces everyone on the table that I must die. It's hard to argue against this, though I try. But with 4 minions to their 1-2 each, high intercept, Champion and the music for the Dance already playing, I look terribly strong. >From this point, the game's path is set. I must oust people to limit the number of actions directed at me. They must get through my defenses. Robert back-bleeds me. I Determine the Kindred Spirits. Steve crosstable bleeds me. I block and Angel on the Ivory Bow, ! Malk=torpor. 1 more ready to bounce. Paul bleeds Matt. Matt does stuff, I block anything bad. I Vigilance the rest of the imbued. I Waltz Robert for 12. Everyone untaps. Robert bleeds, Steve deflects, I Champion the unblockable bleed. Another !Malk in torpor. Steve does a couple of things and may get a bleed off. Paul bleeds with his 2 ICs. Matt soaks up the pool loss. I Sudden Matt's 3rd Aye on Eze, limiting his access to stealth and card flow. I kill Robert and start on Steve. Steve stays untapped. Paul PTO's both of Matt's vampires and influences out to Steve. Matt passes, as he has no vampires and only a few pool. I bleed for 12 and all my minions finish untapped Steve bleeds and gets Matt. He tries to work on me, but I knock a vampire down. I continue bleeding but every minion has the Laptop, Leather Jacket and Ivory Bow. Steve declines to block in the face of aggravated damage on every bleed. My bleed pace surpasses his and he dies. Darby, 3 VP GW, Tournament Win. Steve, 2 VP, 2nd place. I had a happy confluence of events - no significant intercept, no rush combat. So with the deck playing basically like it was stacked, I could play even against 4 players all seeking my demise. The imbued are strong, but I was also very lucky. Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) I play what should be a silly [pre]/[PRE] bribes deck with Diversity and Finding the Path as the major votes. It has absolutely no way to pass its own votes - no Bewitching, no Awe, No Charming Lobby, no Cryptic Rider. I built it after the long "Voter Cap is bad" thread - and really, the pool from Voter Cap is strangely irrelevant in this deck. Yes, Bribes really is THAT good (when you use it 18-20 times on pool-gaining votes). Round 1. Darby: Vote With Me You Filthy Whore. Negotiation vote Robert Scythe: Eze High Aye Paul: FoS Breed/Vote Kevin: Large Cap Honor the Elders. Robert and Kevin start by hammering me and Paul with KRCs, 2 and 2. Since Paul needs to push some votes, he knows one of the voters must die. He also knows I won't give pool to my prey, but would to my predator, so Robert is the better target. Paul removes an Aranthebes and I bleed Robert out. Now it's a numbers game. Paul has 8-12 Settites and is passing Con Boons, plus gaining Bribes. Kevin has 3 Blood Doll minions, all different clans, is passing Honor the Elders and gaining Bribes. I have 6-7 minions of different clans, am passing Diversity, Finding the Path, KRC and gaining Bribes and Voter Cap. ***KEY PLAYS*** Ultimately, the game was settled by two plays. I bid 5 for Sir Marriot on Kevin's Hostile Takeover. Paul gave it up for the 5 pool. Next turn, I Disputed Territory voted Paul's stealth location. The stealth made sure he didn't hold the edge, and dropped a little more pool damage in every turn. Paul was about to pass a Con Boon with Awe. He chose to leave a blood on the calling minion (no Voter Cap in hand). The vote was passing by 3 after all the table votes were cast and Kevin and I discarded vote cards. I happended to have a Vox Senis in hand and failed the vote, keeping Paul in range and preventing a Cryptic Rider for yet another Con Boon. I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. Round 2. Darby: Vote With Me You Filthy Whore. Negotiation vote Robert G.: [pot] rush with Anarch Revolt Robert S.: Eze High Aye Matt: Prince Cam Seg with Tempt tech. Ugh. Anarch Revolt and Cam Seg, and the vote power to my right. Robert G lays waste to Robert S while I breed, go anarch and bleed/ vote. Matt tempts a few of my minions and plays a Form of Corruption. I burn tempted minions to the Cam Segs, and pray that Robert will blow up some Princes after Robert S. is gone. It may have happened, but if it did, it was after I died. Finals. You're kidding right, this PoS deck makes ANOTHER finals? And I'm 2nd seed. Well.....OK then. Darby: Vote With Me You Filthy Whore. Negotiation vote Chris (replacing Paul): FoS Breed/Vote. Robert G.: [pot] rush with Anarch Revolt Fred: Ahrimanes Matt: Prince Cam Seg with Tempt tech. Robert gets off very fast - 2 Anarch Revolts early. Fred gets Howler and goes anarch. Matt can't go Anarch with his opening vampires and eats a bunch of pool loss. I get a few [PRE] guys up and go anarch The FoS breed up, go anarch. With Chris driving, the Aabbt Kindred are tapping and I bleed some. Robert beats his head against the anarch Howler. He doesn't have time to go Anarch and is eating pool. The sequence goes on for about 1/2 of Robert's deck, and he draws only 2 maneuvers the whole time. Fred has soe many he's playing them from hand instead of using Howler. Mid game, Fred gets Howler a Heart of the City for an attack on Matt's 6 pool. Looks good to me at the time, though in retrospect, only the threat is good. Having Howler on me would be bad..... All the while, Anarch Revolts get burned (mostly Matt) Cam Segs get burned (Robert's Sabbats in torpor) FoS keep breeding, gaining votes and gaining pool. Matt helps them get a couple of votes, and gives them a couple of Con Boons. I keep influencing. In the late game, I watched the FoS pool bounce from dangerous lows (like I might get a kill) to 20+. After the second set of Con Boons get passed, I say that I'm channelling Paul Johnson, kingmaker unparalleled. I muss up what's left of my hair to try to look like Paul on a rampage and go to it. I have everything necessary to play and pass 3 KRCs with Chris' help. I'm planning to oust Fred, then Robert. With the seeding Chris would win, Fred and Robert come next and I push top-seeded Matt to 4th, instead of first. I finish 5th, but that's OK with me. I'll never get Chris with Matt pushing his Con Boons. When Matt's turn comes, having heard my plan, he surveys the situation and offers me Chris. Then we'll play on. In this scenario, the worst he gets is 2nd unless the table falls apart near Robert and Fred. I'm all for it and change my plans. The KRCs go at Chris, I soak the last points. I cycle into a bunch of Diversities by the end of my turn. The table holds together through Matt's next turn. Look see I can't get Chris quickly enough. Robert still has a few minions and Howler is Famed with 3-4 pool. Time is running out now. Anyone who gets a VP will win, and I'll drop from 2nd to 3rd. I tell Matt I can stabilize the table so he finishes first, me second, no one gets ousted in the last few minutes. Of course, he goes for it, as it's a win for him. He chunks me around a bit, leaving me a one pool to make sure I do what I said I would instead of lunge or simply shell up. He also rescues one of Robert's vampires to boost the Diversity gain (he's a good player, though one that most people don't yet know). That's fine - cause I was planning on the votes anyway. 3 Diversitys and a Finding the Path, each with Bribes and everyone is too full for an easy oust. The finals time out. Matt, 0 VP, Tournament win. Darby, 0 VP, 2nd. ***SUMMARY*** All in all, a great weekend. Seeing Paul work his magic is always fun, even when it screws me. LA remains my favorite place to play. It's not just the history - it's setting down at a table, looking around and thinking "Oh man, I have to play against THEM?" The playfield atmosphere may be toxic to many, but there's no place like home.

On May 31, 3:59 pm, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: <massive snip> [ quoted text not captured ] You still would have lost Jack. Spending React leaves Goulet untapped and untainted by NRA (and thus able to announce the action again): http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6a51c059030713ce No mistake on your part. Your predator's mistake was continuing the contest instead of letting go and stealing the second copy. > Meanwhile, I'm working on Chris, who almost has Matt. The table is > set to collapse. > I get Chris, bleeding despite Robert's bluff of Babble (which is in > his deck). If I didn't get Chris right then, he gets Matt. > > Matt gets Robert in his turn. Matt and I duke it out until I'm at 3 > pool and he has less than 9 (my bleed potential). If I get another > turn, I kill Matt because he has no intercept. > > **KEY TURN** > I block a bunch of stuff, DI and Determine a couple of votes. I block > a bleed which could become 3 from a Eze with his [PRE][POT]. Matt > fires off a majesty somewhere in the turn, and that untap enables an > Ancient Influence. I die. React cancels majesty! (Although he could play another if he had it). [ quoted text not captured ] Done. No intercept + No Combat + Vigilance = WIN. [ quoted text not captured ] Well done! <snip the rest> Very good report! witness1 -dance, darby, dance

On May 31, 12:59 pm, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > Tournament Play-by-Play - LA Qualifier Weekend > (One guy's perspective). Nice report. > Day 2, Tournament #3. (9 players?) > Finals. > Darby (2nd seed): Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) > Robert: !Malk in Arcadia > Steve: !Malk Bleed/Vote (again). > Paul: IC exploits PTO > Matt (1st seed): Eze High Aye > > Something of a surprise in seating, I didn't expect Eze to want to > deal with intercept. But I'll take it, I guess. My deck plays crazy- > good - the kind of thing you only dream of, but then worry about when > it happens. > > I go 3rd, Play Dreams of the Sphinx, and get Inez up. Unmasking. > Influences all around - it's a big vampire game. > 2nd turn, Inez Inspires, 4 on Travis so up he comes. Edge Explosion. > Robert starts bleeding. Actually, I don't believe I ever bled Steve. My only bleeds were backwards against you. > Steve piddles around. > Leandro comes up from Paul. Oh happy days..... > Eze comes up > 3rd turn, Inez Inspires, Travis Special, Francois comes up. > More of the same from everyone else. I Angel on a Sport Bike > > ***KEY TURN*** > 4th turn. Pay Leandro. Francois Vigilance/Rejuvenate/Champion/Laptop/ > Discern/Leather Jacket. Travis gets Viligence, Scrounges, then does > his thing. Inez Inspires, influence Jennie. > > At this point, Robert convinces everyone on the table that I must > die. It's hard to argue against this, though I try. But with 4 > minions to their 1-2 each, high intercept, Champion and the music for > the Dance already playing, I look terribly strong. > > >From this point, the game's path is set. I must oust people to limit > the number of actions directed at me. They must get through my > defenses. > > Robert back-bleeds me. I Determine the Kindred Spirits. > Steve crosstable bleeds me. I block and Angel on the Ivory Bow, ! > Malk=torpor. 1 more ready to bounce. > Paul bleeds Matt. > Matt does stuff, I block anything bad. > > I Vigilance the rest of the imbued. I Waltz Robert for 12. Everyone > untaps. > Robert bleeds, Steve deflects, I Champion the unblockable bleed. Just adding that this was planned as well. All of my bleeds went backwards against Darby. Steve's as well. Even Paul's 2 PTOs on his prey and his transfer-out were all part of trying to stop Darby. It was 4 on 1 throughout almost the entire final. We stuck together and died together! > The table holds together through Matt's next turn. Look see I can't > get Chris quickly enough. Robert still has a few minions and Howler > is Famed with 3-4 pool. Time is running out now. Anyone who gets a > VP will win, and I'll drop from 2nd to 3rd. I blundered here on my last turn. I'd finally run Fred out of Wakes and needed only to tap out to win. Fred had been so consistent for so long with just Howler that I'd figured I needed to torpor Howler to win. A simple tap-out would have accomplished it. I must admit it, Howler got in my head and just wrecked me mentally. Fred really played well in that game. -Robert

"Robert Goudie" <RobertT...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1180649759.1...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > I blundered here on my last turn. I'd finally run Fred out of Wakes > and needed only to tap out to win. Fred had been so consistent for so > long with just Howler that I'd figured I needed to torpor Howler to > win. A simple tap-out would have accomplished it. I must admit it, > Howler got in my head and just wrecked me mentally. > > Fred really played well in that game. Thanks, Robert. Some day I hope to play well in a game in which I can accomplish something good for myself rather than just holding off my predator. Bah! I guess we all have to appreciate progress on the rung of the ladder we're each on. Fred (sure, frustrating other people can be a little bit fun! :-) )

On May 31, 12:59 pm, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > Tournament Play-by-Play - LA Qualifier Weekend > Round 2. > Darby: 3-5 cap [ANI] > Albert: 2-5 cap [ani][for] --> [ANI][FOR] > Stuart: Prince [CEL] guns > Paul: Mixed crypt toolbox/vote (library depletion) > > Finally, Paul starts to help me.....but too late to be impactful. > I transfer out to prevent the humiliation of watching my prey sweep. Why would you self-oust, actually reducing your TPs, to prevent your prey from sweeping? If someone has a good matchup and plays well, why deny them the VPs? > Paul (5th seed), transfers out to Steve in the last minutes of the > game. > Steve = 1 VP, Tournament Win. Mike is second. > Much angst ensues. > Paul's rationale is that 1st seeds shouldn't feel so safe in their > standing that they stagnate for 2 hours. > > Mike contests that his stagnation was required because high intercept/ > Rotschrek trumps his deck and the other possibility (bounce) would > have killed Paul. Either way, he loses. So, he's greatly disturbed > by Paul's action - basically penalizing Mike for keeping Paul alive. Crazy. The good thing about playing Kingmaker like that is sometimes you can make stuff happen to your advantage. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but sometimes you end up with something better. > Round 2. > Dennis: Una vs. World redux > Paul: Some princely thing > Darby: !Malk Black Hand > Kevin: !Trememe [DOM] with allies. > > Una starts up, Paul DI's a Freak Drive. > > **KEY PLAY** > Paul tries to Parity Shift, I DI it (instead of waiting for Dennis' > next Freak Drive) > Paul goes ballistic, but I didn't want him with more pool and I hope > to gain Dennis as an ally Silly Darby, DI's are for Freak Drives. > Finals. > Darby (4th seed): !Malk Black Hand > Alex (2rd seed): Malk '94 > Steve (5th seed): !Malk Bleed/Vote > Fred (3rd seed): Giovanni Power Bleed > Dennis (1st seed): Una vs. World redux. > > Top 3 qualify. I'm 4th. I need a VP and have disasterous seating > with Una on my right. Did the Una deck have Robert Carter in it? > Dennis says if he qualifies, he'll withdraw and let me and Steve fight > it out. That leaves me even less reason to back-bleed, and more > reason to get us to a 3-player. Was Dennis so worried that you'd back bleed that he had to negotiate with you? Given the setup, I'm a little surprised the Una deck didn't just win. I guess too many minions, and out of library? > Round 1. > Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) > Kevin: Sebastian Goulet & Friends > Fred: Ahrimanes Block/Lunge > Robert: !Malk in Arcadia What's the Waltz in respect to this deck? Great report, sorry I wasn't there! Ira

<ira...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1180653240.5...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] In the finals, Darby negiotiated with Dennis along the lines of "No DI if you leave me alone for (some amound of time, I forget how long)". He probably made a similar deal here. >> Finals. >> Darby (4th seed): !Malk Black Hand >> Alex (2rd seed): Malk '94 >> Steve (5th seed): !Malk Bleed/Vote >> Fred (3rd seed): Giovanni Power Bleed >> Dennis (1st seed): Una vs. World redux. >> >> Top 3 qualify. I'm 4th. I need a VP and have disasterous seating >> with Una on my right. > > Did the Una deck have Robert Carter in it? Who cares? I mean, really, it makes not a whit of difference. >> Dennis says if he qualifies, he'll withdraw and let me and Steve fight >> it out. That leaves me even less reason to back-bleed, and more >> reason to get us to a 3-player. > > Was Dennis so worried that you'd back bleed that he had to negotiate > with you? I think Dennis was out of rushes. Darby neglected to mention that I'd also intercepted Una's Templar and I don't think there were any other perma-rushes in the deck except a Covenant of Blood (but maybe I wasn't watch that closely). IIRC Alex had the only Camarilla vamps on the table. I gather Dennis's deck's weakness - if you can call it that - is that it is limited as to how many minions it can clear off the table. He had a Sargon Fragment but it can't be easy to use. Mostly, he just depends on carded rushes to burn opposing minions and then waltzes home to victory. My S:CEs screwed him up really badly, albeit not badly enough to prevent him from qualifying or helping me qualify or anything radical like that. > Given the setup, I'm a little surprised the Una deck didn't just win. > I guess too many minions, and out of library? Too many Spiritual Interventions (on my part). Dennis wins that game outright without a whimper probably 19 times out of 20. Maybe more. >> Round 1. >> Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) >> Kevin: Sebastian Goulet & Friends >> Fred: Ahrimanes Block/Lunge >> Robert: !Malk in Arcadia > > What's the Waltz in respect to this deck? It's another word for 'dance'. Fred

On May 31, 4:33 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > > Did the Una deck have Robert Carter in it? > Who cares? I mean, really, it makes not a whit of difference. I care. I suggested to Mike after the SWRQ in SF that he might consider adding a Robert Carter. So I was wondering if that suggestion was taken or not. :) > >> Round 1. > >> Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) > >> Kevin: Sebastian Goulet & Friends > >> Fred: Ahrimanes Block/Lunge > >> Robert: !Malk in Arcadia > > > What's the Waltz in respect to this deck? > > It's another word for 'dance'. What's the dance, then? Maybe there's some card that I'm not aware of? I'm wondering why bleeding with Imbued is being called a dance. I don't get the reference. Ira

<ira...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1180658459.9...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > On May 31, 4:33 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: >> > Did the Una deck have Robert Carter in it? >> Who cares? I mean, really, it makes not a whit of difference. > > I care. I suggested to Mike after the SWRQ in SF that he might > consider adding a Robert Carter. So I was wondering if that > suggestion was taken or not. :) I don't recall seeing one but the pile of permanents, by the end, was huge and my eyes were bleary from the late hour and the repeated rushes. Perhaps someone else remembers. Were it me, I don't think I'd care for the tradeoff as I suspect Una's blood may be precious in certain situations but I haven't seen enough of the deck to be confident I'm right about that. >> >> Round 1. >> >> Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) >> >> Kevin: Sebastian Goulet & Friends >> >> Fred: Ahrimanes Block/Lunge >> >> Robert: !Malk in Arcadia >> >> > What's the Waltz in respect to this deck? >> >> It's another word for 'dance'. > > What's the dance, then? Maybe there's some card that I'm not aware > of? I'm wondering why bleeding with Imbued is being called a dance. > I don't get the reference. When the deck has fully powered up, one Imbued bleeds with laptop, Ivory Bow, etc, etc. Block him and die. Don't block him and lose 2 pool. Then another Imbued equips with all this stuff and untaps with Vigilence. Rinse. Repeat. Hmmmm...looks like all his Imbued have Vigilence and they're getting lined up to, erm, abuse you. They're forming a dance line! It's the Darby Dance! IIRC, Jeff Thompson thought up a few more versions of the same idea using various vampire clans, e.g. "The Samedi Do The Darby Dance", http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/samedi_dance.htm and "The Salubri Antitribu Do the Darby Dance", http://www.atfreeforum.com/vtesholland/viewtopic.php?p=319&sid=b11653cc58f29e348a4425d5d8cbfd2f&mforum=vtesholland I didn't get the impression any particular card had anything to do with waltzes per se. I think it's just another word for 'dance'. Fred

Darby Keeney <darby....@gmail.com> wrote: > Round 1. > Darby: 3-5 cap [ANI] > Matt: Stanislava goes it alone > Kevin: ?? Something dominatey ?? > Mike: Mathias refills the sneaky bleedmonster ICs > > I fail to draw a single rush card or Raven Spy. So I mostly bleed and > fail to block Mike. > > Matt fails to draw a single skill card for his Stanislava-based bleed > cannon. > > Mike bleeds me for 8, then 6. Poof. > Mike bleeds Matt for 6. Poof. > Mike bleeds Kevin a bunch of times. Poof. > > Mike = 4 VP Sweep, GW. This is incorrect. I was playing Ash Harrison gets lots of equipment Smiling Jack wall http://members.cox.net/kjm1971/decks/Gimme%20Some%20Sugar.txt and Mike was unable to oust me when it came down to the two of us, and I killed him by torporing his guys, then eating them, then ousting him. Mike 2VP, Kevin 2VP. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

witness1 <jwnew...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Round 2. >> Darby: Waltzing Matilda (Imbued do the Darby Dance) >> Chris: Annabelle & Co. Bleed >> Matt: Eze High Aye >> Robert: !Malk in Arcadia >> Kevin: Sebastian Goulet & Friends >> >> I make a huge error, thinking React with Conviction is limited to >> discipline-based cards. I lose Jack Harmon to Sebastien before I >> read the card, but then back-contest with Kevin. That extra pool loss >> lets Robert get Kevin, and I get Jack again about 1/2way through the >> game (though without a couple of goodies I put on Jack). > > You still would have lost Jack. Spending React leaves Goulet untapped > and untainted by NRA (and thus able to announce the action again): > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6a51c059030713ce > > No mistake on your part. Your predator's mistake was continuing > the contest instead of letting go and stealing the second copy. But the second copy would have come into play with a RwC on it, which would block my Goulet-taking-him action, and the contest was causing him to lose pool at the same rate as me as well as going from 3 to 2 minions in-play. [ quoted text not captured ]

On May 31, 5:14 pm, "ira...@gmail.com" <ira...@gmail.com> wrote: > Why would you self-oust, actually reducing your TPs, to prevent your > prey from sweeping? If someone has a good matchup and plays well, why > deny them the VPs? Welcome to LA. > Silly Darby, DI's are for Freak Drives. In some cases, yes. In others, not so much. I still tend to believe this could have been a toss-up. > Did the Una deck have Robert Carter in it? No, and it shouldn't. Una doesn't need the blood loss, and the deck is mostly about combat. The swarm Caitiff bleed is better than Robert Carter. > Was Dennis so worried that you'd back bleed that he had to negotiate > with you? > > Given the setup, I'm a little surprised the Una deck didn't just win. > I guess too many minions, and out of library? I think at that point Dennis had 2, maybe 3, rushes left. He can't clear the table. Shouldn't he be worried about my demonstrated ability to bleed for 12, plus Steve's bleed potential, plus Fred's (if he had minions left). > What's the Waltz in respect to this deck? It's a reference to dancing....a la "the Darby Dance" which is typically performed with a Leather Jacket, some form of untap and a follow-up action. In this case, the Imbued transfer a Laptop, Leather Jacket and Ivory Bow. Untap with Vigilence and bleed with Strike + Second Sight (3 bleed, 1 stealth, Ivory Bow back-up). Then they untap at the end of the turn, ready to block or Determine.

On May 31, 8:20 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > This is incorrect. I was playing Ash Harrison gets lots of equipment > Smiling Jack wallhttp://members.cox.net/kjm1971/decks/Gimme%20Some%20Sugar.txtand Mike was > unable to oust me when it came down to the two of us, and I killed him by > torporing his guys, then eating them, then ousting him. > > Mike 2VP, Kevin 2VP. Thanks for the correction.

On May 31, 10:24 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > No mistake on your part. Your predator's mistake was continuing > > the contest instead of letting go and stealing the second copy. > > But the second copy would have come into play with a RwC on it, which > would block my Goulet-taking-him action, and the contest was causing him > to lose pool at the same rate as me as well as going from 3 to 2 minions > in-play. No. It would cancel your first attempt at stealing him, burning the RwC, leaving Goulet untapped, untainted by NRA, and announcing the action again (in the same turn). You can burn an arbitrarily large number of RwCs in a turn, but unless they're powering Champion or some similar effect, they cannot stop a Goulet who actually wants to steal imbued. See the link: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6a51c059030713ce Maybe if it came out with a Second Sight instead of React it could *block* Goulet, but he has OBF. witness1 -dance, magic dance

[ quoted text not captured ] I believe the original Darby Dance was just happenstance in a game, where a player wanted to leave his guys untapped, and Darby said, "At least go grab that Leather Jacket from the other minion to get a blood from Perfectionist". Since then, I've used the term to refer to any deck that uses Leather Jacket or NRA PAC to take some useful action with every minion and leave them all untapped at the end of the turn. In this case, every imbued gets to take advantage of the same Laptop (and possibly even the same Strike With Conviction if you've gotten Edge Explosion). The Ivory Bow and any other equipment (Orb of Ulain is my favorite) are just icing on the cake. witness1 -mmm, cake.

witness1 wrote: > witness1 > -dance, magic dance Bowie! with uber enhanced package! -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

Salem wrote: > witness1 wrote: > >> witness1 >> -dance, magic dance > > Bowie! with uber enhanced package! > Jiving us that we were voodoo... best - chris -- Super Fun Cards http://stores.ebay.com/superfuncards/ auct...@superfuncards.com

witness1 <jwnew...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: >> witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> > No mistake on your part. Your predator's mistake was continuing >> > the contest instead of letting go and stealing the second copy. >> >> But the second copy would have come into play with a RwC on it, >> which would block my Goulet-taking-him action, and the contest >> was causing him to lose pool at the same rate as me as well as going >> from 3 to 2 minions in-play. > > No. It would cancel your first attempt at stealing him, burning the > RwC, leaving Goulet untapped, untainted by NRA, and announcing > the action again (in the same turn). You can burn an arbitrarily large > number of RwCs in a turn, but unless they're powering Champion or > some similar effect, they cannot stop a Goulet who actually wants to > steal imbued. > > See the link: > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-ards.jyhad/msg/6a51c059030713ce > > Maybe if it came out with a Second Sight instead of React it could > *block* Goulet, but he has OBF. Holy CRAP do I need to learn how to play this game! I totally had nothing to fear! :( [ quoted text not captured ]

On 31 touko, 22:59, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > Tournament Play-by-Play - LA Qualifier Weekend > (One guy's perspective). Great report. Few comments. >I go 3rd, Play Dreams of the Sphinx, and get Inez up. Dreams does not work with Imbueds. "Tap to move one blood from the blood bank to a _vampire_ in your uncontrolled region" Or did you just used it to cycle cards? >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) >Round 1 >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given same amount of VPs. - Guzmo

>>I go 3rd, Play Dreams of the Sphinx, and get Inez up. > Dreams does not work with Imbueds. "Tap to move one blood from the > blood bank to a _vampire_ in your uncontrolled region" Or did you just > used it to cycle cards? Inez only costs 3. Going 3rd = 3 transfers. Sorrow --- "I am Jack's wasted life." - Narrator

On Jun 1, 3:31 pm, g...@postmaster.co.uk wrote: > On 31 touko, 22:59, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Tournament Play-by-Play - LA Qualifier Weekend > > (One guy's perspective). > > Great report. Few comments. > > >I go 3rd, Play Dreams of the Sphinx, and get Inez up. > > Dreams does not work with Imbueds. "Tap to move one blood from the > blood bank to a _vampire_ in your uncontrolled region" Or did you just > used it to cycle cards? Yep, Apparently nobody who plays imbued knows how to read the card, and nobody who plays against imbued knows how to read the card. > >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) > >Round 1 > >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no > >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. > > That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should > play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that > was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given > same amount of VPs. Yep, another incident of cheating going down. Deals should be banned altogether. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

Kevin M. wrote: > witness1 <jwnew...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: >>> witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>>> No mistake on your part. Your predator's mistake was continuing >>>> the contest instead of letting go and stealing the second copy. >>> But the second copy would have come into play with a RwC on it, >>> which would block my Goulet-taking-him action, and the contest >>> was causing him to lose pool at the same rate as me as well as going >>> from 3 to 2 minions in-play. >> No. It would cancel your first attempt at stealing him, burning the >> RwC, leaving Goulet untapped, untainted by NRA, and announcing >> the action again (in the same turn). You can burn an arbitrarily large >> number of RwCs in a turn, but unless they're powering Champion or >> some similar effect, they cannot stop a Goulet who actually wants to >> steal imbued. >> >> See the link: >> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-ards.jyhad/msg/6a51c059030713ce >> Maybe if it came out with a Second Sight instead of React it could >> *block* Goulet, but he has OBF. > > Holy CRAP do I need to learn how to play this game! I totally had nothing > to fear! :( > Aw, dude. You were sitting at a table with Darby, Fred, and I, all of us have been playing since pretty much day 1. Certainly would have totally changed the game if you stole all of Darby's minions. Best anti-Imbued tech yet, Sebastien Goulet. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jun 1, 5:20 am, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > On May 31, 10:24 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > > > witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > No mistake on your part. Your predator's mistake was continuing > > > the contest instead of letting go and stealing the second copy. > > > But the second copy would have come into play with a RwC on it, which > > would block my Goulet-taking-him action, and the contest was causing him > > to lose pool at the same rate as me as well as going from 3 to 2 minions > > in-play. > > No. It would cancel your first attempt at stealing him, burning the > RwC, leaving Goulet untapped, untainted by NRA, and announcing the > action again (in the same turn). You can burn an arbitrarily large > number of RwCs in a turn, but unless they're powering Champion or some > similar effect, they cannot stop a Goulet who actually wants to steal > imbued. > > See the link:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6a51... The current React with Conviction reads: Cardtype: Conviction When an effect that would change control of this imbued is played or announced, you may burn this card to cancel that effect. Burn this card to cancel either a (D) action against this imbued that requires Chimerstry [chi], Dementation [dem], Dominate [dom], Presence [pre], or Serpentis [ser] or a strike card that requires any of those Disciplines played by a minion opposing this imbued as it is announced. No cost is paid. If instead, it said: Cardtype: Conviction You may burn this card to cancel an effect that would change control of this imbued. Could you then burn it once the action is about to resolve, leaving Sebatian tapped? Ira

[ quoted text not captured ] Banning deals would make the game much worse overall. Also, if you're getting the GW, you can do whatever you want with the other VPs. Therefore, if Darby got the GW with 2.5 VPs from the withdraw, he was definitely playing to win, and got the GW. Definitely no cheating. The other person could consider interfering with the withdraw if they had a reasonable chance of ousting Darby, but given the comment about 35 pool, it seems like both players were definitely PTW. Ira

On Jun 1, 3:46 pm, "ira...@gmail.com" <ira...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 1, 1:59 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > On Jun 1, 3:31 pm, g...@postmaster.co.uk wrote: > > > > On 31 touko, 22:59, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) > > > >Round 1 > > > >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no > > > >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. > > > > That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should > > > play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that > > > was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given > > > same amount of VPs. > > > Yep, another incident of cheating going down. > > Deals should be banned altogether. > > Banning deals would make the game much worse overall. Of course "YOU" would say that, oh deal-a-saurus Rex. There are actual mechanics involved in this game other than "point finger at yon player and pull said fire alarm". [ quoted text not captured ]

"librarian" <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote in message news:6S%7i.390967$7g3....@newsfe14.phx... > Kevin M. wrote: >>> See the link: >>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-ards.jyhad/msg/6a51c059030713ce >>> Maybe if it came out with a Second Sight instead of React it could >>> *block* Goulet, but he has OBF. >> >> Holy CRAP do I need to learn how to play this game! I totally had nothing >> to fear! :( > > Aw, dude. You were sitting at a table with Darby, Fred, and I, all of > us have been playing since pretty much day 1. Certainly would have > totally changed the game if you stole all of Darby's minions. > > Best anti-Imbued tech yet, Sebastien Goulet. No, I saw it. Or at least I saw Sebastien Goulet's merged power and thought it didn't apply to RwC because I was mistakenly thinking RwC's power to cancel minion control actions was discipline-based. I recall seeing the thread in question now but I don't know if I would have remembered that Kevin could use it again if it were canceled the first time. Quite possibly I would not have. Doesn't matter, in my case. At that point, I hadn't foreseen the conclusion of Darby's minions' performance so I was still thinking Kevin was the greater threat to me (at least short term). Thus I was not interested in instigating any conversations about how he could use that tactic. Sitting in the ally position to an imbued deck is truly a thankless task! :-P Fred

On Jun 1, 6:27 am, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > I believe the original Darby Dance was just happenstance in a game, > where a player wanted to leave his guys untapped, and Darby said, "At > least go grab that Leather Jacket from the other minion to get a blood > from Perfectionist". Indeed. The opposing player was Jay Kristoff, and the setting was day 1 of the 2006 NAC. He had 2 blocking minions, one of which was Anatole with Perfectionist. I couldn't stand seeing the loss of opportunity, so I mentioned it to Jay so that he could exploit the Dance in later rounds. Shortly thereafter, I ousted him with a Pentex Subversion and Propaganda bleed :) We discussed the whole effect later over a nice (not wooden) steak dinner, and from that, the imbued version of the Dance was born.

On Jun 1, 2:31 pm, g...@postmaster.co.uk wrote: > On 31 touko, 22:59, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Tournament Play-by-Play - LA Qualifier Weekend > > (One guy's perspective). > > Great report. Few comments. > > >I go 3rd, Play Dreams of the Sphinx, and get Inez up. > > Dreams does not work with Imbueds. "Tap to move one blood from the > blood bank to a _vampire_ in your uncontrolled region" Or did you just > used it to cycle cards? 2 copies of Dreams exist to increase hand size, and move convictions to the ash heap. Likewise, I have 3 copies of Scrounging for the same reason. Mine is a powers-focused imbued deck, and I want to get to them (discarding convictions for later play) whenever possible. > >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) > >Round 1 > >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no > >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. > > That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should > play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that > was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given > same amount of VPs. Horsehockey. Not only was I playing to win that game (which I did), I was also playing to win every other game I play in the future with those players. Methesulahs need the ability to offer others a meaningful thing for their actions/non-actions. If I am forced to bleed out someone with whom I have an agreement (in this case, stay frosty and you'll get something out of it), the game will degrade into "there is nothing for me here, I bleed you as much as I can, then transfer out", or "I stifle your game because there's nothing in it for me". Any game which features politics as a mechanic must deal with the ramifications of that mechanism. Here is a prime example of that. I would further submit that I was not only setting up that GW, but there's now at least one more person who KNOWS FOR A FACT that I can, and will follow through on multiplayer interactions that affect their overall standing at the end of the day. Call it "education in self interest" if "deal-making" leaves a foul taste in your mouth. Darby _> > - Guzmo

On Jun 1, 2:59 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Yep, Apparently nobody who plays imbued knows how to read the card, > and nobody who plays against imbued knows how to read the card. Troll as much as you want. I know exactly what the card does, and there are 2 copies of it in my library for set of specific purposes. That you don't play them in any imbued decks you might run says much about your understanding of convictions and powers in a deck designed to grow rapidly. One pool to discard 6 convictions drawn during your minion phase (still playable from the ash heap) and have a 9 hand size while you're installing powers is a bargain. > > >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) > > >Round 1 > > >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no > > >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. > > Yep, another incident of cheating going down. > > Deals should be banned altogether. The game features politics, and the ability to interact outside a simplified bleed-left, block-right model. In such a game, deals are inevitable. Once deals become inevitable, trying to mandate their scope is a slippery slope.

On Jun 1, 4:08 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > On Jun 1, 3:46 pm, "ira...@gmail.com" <ira...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 1:59 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > > On Jun 1, 3:31 pm, g...@postmaster.co.uk wrote: > > > > > On 31 touko, 22:59, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) > > > > >Round 1 > > > > >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no > > > > >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. > > > > > That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should > > > > play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that > > > > was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given > > > > same amount of VPs. > > > > Yep, another incident of cheating going down. > > > Deals should be banned altogether. > > > Banning deals would make the game much worse overall. > >There are > actual mechanics involved in this game other than "point finger at yon > player and pull said fire alarm". Indeed there are. One of those mechanics is politics. You don't have to participate in them, but that doesn't elimiate their availability to those you chose to utilize them.

On Jun 1, 8:51 pm, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 1, 2:59 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > Yep, Apparently nobody who plays imbued knows how to read the card, > > and nobody who plays against imbued knows how to read the card. > > Troll as much as you want. I know exactly what the card does, and > there are 2 copies of it in my library for set of specific purposes. Apparently, that low bridge must have struck a nerve. The more players I can make aware of Dreams transfer function being incompatable with imbued the better. Sorry if you feelings get hurt in the process. > That you don't play them in any imbued decks you might run says much > about your understanding of convictions and powers in a deck designed > to grow rapidly. I have 1 Imbued deck built, so yes, I am "in the shallow end with floaties on" when it comes to imbued, but I play against them all the time. Dreams is one of those casual cards that a casual "mistake" can vastly improve the already powerful imbued by using the transfer function. > One pool to discard 6 convictions drawn during your minion phase > (still playable from the ash heap) and have a 9 hand size while you're > installing powers is a bargain. Sounds like a good application for the card. > > > >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) > > > >Round 1 > > > >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no > > > >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. > > > Yep, another incident of cheating going down. > > > Deals should be banned altogether. > > The game features politics, and the ability to interact outside a > simplified bleed-left, block-right model. In such a game, deals are > inevitable. Once deals become inevitable, trying to mandate their > scope is a slippery slope. Yes, but when the game is a never-ending blab fest then it resembles Diplomacy and is just as arbitrary who becomes the victor. Such games I truly despise. In this instance, I was 2000 miles away from this qualifier so I certainly don't know how it went down with a withdrawal happening. Sounded like a great tournament. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jun 1, 8:25 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > The more players > I can make aware of Dreams transfer function being incompatable with > imbued the better. Sorry if you feelings get hurt in the process. Fair enough. I will agree that folks should indeed be able to read the card and know transfers can't hit Imbued. Interestingly enough, I have never seen anyone try - but you must have. I'm with you on making sure players catch the mistake. However, your comment that "anyone playing imbued doesn't know how to read the card" is incorrect, as are statements I have seen that Dreams is trash in Imbued decks. Far from it. I rejoice every time this deck draws a DotS. > Yes, but when the game is a never-ending blab fest then it resembles > Diplomacy and is just as arbitrary who becomes the victor. Such games > I truly despise. I understand, though I may be more tolerant of dialogue than you (at least today). Unfortunately, there is already an overwhelmingly arbitrary aspect to the game. Who sits where, with what decks, and with what skill in their play is controlled by a seating chart, not by player activity. With seat-control votes banned, inter-player politics and resulting blabbery are often the price paid to deal with this abitrary and highly impactful influence on the game. I guess the flip side of the coin (everyone bleeds for 7 at stealth in an arms race) is equally unacceptable.

"Darby Keeney" <darby....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1180748702.6...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 1, 2:31 pm, g...@postmaster.co.uk wrote: >> On 31 touko, 22:59, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >Day 2, Tournament #4 (9 players?) >> >Round 1 >> >I kill Paul with about 10 minions on the table, 35-40 pool and no >> >library. As previously agreed with Kevin, I withdraw for 2.5 VP. >> >> That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should >> play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that >> was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given >> same amount of VPs. > > Horsehockey. Not only was I playing to win that game (which I did), I > was also playing to win every other game I play in the future with > those players. Hmmm. I don't think your motivations are the issue here. It's a question of whether you're allowed to play for less than the maximum number of victory points you can possibly acquire with two players left. That is to say, it's a question of whether the "Exception:" clause in rule 4.8 applies here or not. The clause doesn't say explicitly but the spirit of the rest of rule 4.8 suggests that it doesn't. I suppose if your withdrawal left you with 2.5 VPs and Kevin only one then it satisfied the play-to-win rule and you could honor your agreement in spite of that last paragraph in 4.8. Of course, the other question here is whether Kevin should have allowed you to withdraw. That would hinge on whether he could conceivably have ousted you or if accepting your (agreement-based) withdrawal was the best he could do for himself in terms of victory points. If the latter then you're both OK and the withdrawal is fine (I think). The previous poster may not have understood that a player doesn't have to keep going after he has a GW in hand - even after only two players remain...I think... > Methesulahs need the ability to offer others a meaningful thing for > their actions/non-actions. If I am forced to bleed out someone with > whom I have an agreement (in this case, stay frosty and you'll get > something out of it), the game will degrade into "there is nothing for > me here, I bleed you as much as I can, then transfer out", or "I > stifle your game because there's nothing in it for me". That may be, I don't know. This sounds like a very philosophical multiplayer game argument to me which is more subjective in its resolution than provable. But be that as it may, it is now the rule in some cases that the intent to honor an earlier agreement in a game will no longer excuse you from strictly playing to win once the game has collapsed to just two players. If both you and Kevin needed to make an argreement who's final act came after all the other players were ousted and you each had only one victory point in hand, then whatever you had agreed to before becomes kaput. You must at that point both play to wind up in posession of two(-plus) victory points and the game win - concerns about the degradation of VTES be damned. Fred

librarian wrote: > Salem wrote: >> witness1 wrote: >> >>> witness1 >>> -dance, magic dance >> >> Bowie! with uber enhanced package! >> > > Jiving us that we were voodoo... but we could be heroes, just for one day. [ quoted text not captured ]

XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes: > > That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should > > play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that > > was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given > > same amount of VPs. > > Yep, another incident of cheating going down. > > Deals should be banned altogether. > > Comments Welcome, I hope you meant to write "VP-sharing deals" instead of just "deals". Or would you ban this kind of deal also: I bleed by prey. My prey bounces the bleed to my grandprey. I make a deal with my grandprey: he blocks, I maneuver to long, we both strike hands and do nothing else during the combat. (That kind of deal and it's variations are the most common deals in my playgroup. We don't do VP-deals.) HG -- hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience, iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

Janne Hägglund wrote: > XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes: > >>> That sounds wrong. If there are only two players left, both should >>> play to win (and break all the deals while doing so). Probably that >>> was reasonable as you had 35+ pool left and time out would have given >>> same amount of VPs. >> Yep, another incident of cheating going down. >> >> Deals should be banned altogether. >> >> Comments Welcome, > > > I hope you meant to write "VP-sharing deals" instead of just "deals". There is no hard black-and-white line between them. If you want to ban VP deals, you either ban deals or you suffer the creativity of the players in making deals that are VP deals but don't meet whatever criteria you set up to define a VP deal.

On 2 kesä, 18:23, h...@iki.fi.remove.these.invalid (Janne Hägglund) wrote: > (That kind of deal and it's variations are the most common deals in my > playgroup. We don't do VP-deals.) > > HG Yes we do. - Guzmo

gu...@postmaster.co.uk writes: [ quoted text not captured ] That means I've missed them all, since I've had very little time to play lately. Lucky me. [ quoted text not captured ]