dumb Q - but I want to be sure

Greetz, I have a (IMO stupid) question, but it has caused a debate the last time we played. 1) Can you play Backstab on a strike that already has First Strike (eg sup Fast hands)? And what will be the effect of this? The situation was s/t like this: Meth A rushes B's minion with a Muddled with a Sengir Dagger. B's Minion blocks and plays Backstab and Fast Hands. Does B's minion get the Sengir before he is hit for 4agg damage? In short does 'First first Strike' exist. I'm guessing not, but just to make sure. 2) redrawing Wynn, with 7 Raptors, rushes another players vamp, with a Bum's rush. This -the rushed one- vamp blocks, to get rid of the manuever. Wynn Form of Mists and continues to Rush. Does the controller of the rushed vamp have to redraw (and rediscard!) between the playing of the Fom and the start of the rush. I'm guessing he has, but the others I was playing with say that Wynn never left combat and that they didn' have to redraw and discard. Because I was biased - it was my Wynn - nobody really listened to my arguments. Jeroen

"jeroen rombouts" <jeroen....@pandora.be> wrote: > 1) Can you play Backstab on a strike that already has First Strike (eg > sup Fast hands)? And what will be the effect of this? You can play Backstab and then use a strike that already has FIrst Strike, yes. The effect will be that the strike is done at First Strike (as it would have been anyhow - the Backstab has no effect in this case). > 2) redrawing > > Wynn, with 7 Raptors, rushes another players vamp, with a Bum's rush. > This -the rushed one- vamp blocks, to get rid of the manuever. Wynn > Form of Mists and continues to Rush. > > Does the controller of the rushed vamp have to redraw (and rediscard!) > between the playing of the Fom and the start of the rush. I'm guessing > he has, but the others I was playing with say that Wynn never left > combat and that they didn' have to redraw and discard. Because I was > biased - it was my Wynn - nobody really listened to my arguments. He clearly left combat - there was a period of "do you block" in between the first (block-induced) combat and the second (successful-action) combat. In that period, the "victim" draws up to her hand size, whic is not reduced by Raptors. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

> > > > Wynn, with 7 Raptors, rushes another players vamp, with a Bum's rush. > > This -the rushed one- vamp blocks, to get rid of the manuever. Wynn > > Form of Mists and continues to Rush. > > > > Does the controller of the rushed vamp have to redraw (and rediscard!) > > between the playing of the Fom and the start of the rush. I'm guessing > > he has, but the others I was playing with say that Wynn never left > > combat and that they didn' have to redraw and discard. Because I was > > biased - it was my Wynn - nobody really listened to my arguments. > > He clearly left combat - there was a period of "do you block" in between > the first (block-induced) combat and the second (successful-action) > combat. In that period, the "victim" draws up to her hand size, whic > is not reduced by Raptors. > > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Let me see if I understand what you said... Minion A (with 7 superior Raptors) rushes Minion B. Minion B blocks. Minion B's controllers hand size drops by 7 cards. Minion A's controller plays Form of Mist at superior. Minion B's controller draws up to a full hand because the block induced combat is over. The action continues at +1 stealth and another combat starts. I made it this far, but why do you say that Minion B's controller would not have a reduced hand size for the successful action combat? Thanks Doug [ quoted text not captured ]

mess...@my-deja.com wrote: > [Uncited text snipped - please cite text when quoting] > > Let me see if I understand what you said... > > Minion A (with 7 superior Raptors) rushes Minion B. Minion B blocks. > Minion B's controllers hand size drops by 7 cards. Minion A's > controller plays Form of Mist at superior. Minion B's controller > draws up to a full hand because the block induced combat is over. The > action continues at +1 stealth and another combat starts. > > I made it this far, but why do you say that Minion B's controller > would not have a reduced hand size for the successful action combat? I do not say that. I say B would draw up to her full hand size during the interimission between the two combats (the "Choose Blockers") phase. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <9615sd$5bc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Sorry, I misunderstood the last line of your initial reply. After re- reading it, I am no longer confused... Thanks Doug [ quoted text not captured ]

> > 2) redrawing > > > > Wynn, with 7 Raptors, rushes another players vamp, with a Bum's rush. > > This -the rushed one- vamp blocks, to get rid of the manuever. Wynn > > Form of Mists and continues to Rush. > > > > Does the controller of the rushed vamp have to redraw (and rediscard!) > > between the playing of the Fom and the start of the rush. I'm guessing > > he has, but the others I was playing with say that Wynn never left > > combat and that they didn' have to redraw and discard. Because I was > > biased - it was my Wynn - nobody really listened to my arguments. > > He clearly left combat - there was a period of "do you block" in between > the first (block-induced) combat and the second (successful-action) > combat. In that period, the "victim" draws up to her hand size, whic > is not reduced by Raptors. > There was a follow-up quetion I forgot to ask. In the Wynn with raptors scenario, does the 'victim' has the time to refill his hand so he's able to play Psyche! (which he can't with a handsize of 0)? I think he doesn't in the case of Telepathic tracking, because combat never ended. I'm quite sure he does in the case of Hidden Lurker and Fast Reaction. Jeroen

"jeroen rombouts" <jeroen....@pandora.be> wrote: > [uncited quote snipped] > There was a follow-up quetion I forgot to ask. In the Wynn with > raptors scenario, does the 'victim' has the time to refill his hand so > he's able to play Psyche! Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]