Ebony Kingdom preview in Eye of the Vortex

The May issue of Eye of the Vortex features a preview article of Ebony Kingdom. http://www.eyeofthevortexonline.com/Magazine.php

On May 20, 1:01 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > The May issue of Eye of the Vortex features a preview article of Ebony Kingdom. > > http://www.eyeofthevortexonline.com/Magazine.php Luanda Magere Clan: Ishtarri (group 4) Capacity: 8 Disciplines: CEL PRE PRO for Laibon: Luanda gets +1 strength for each Orun he has. Despiral +1 Stealth Action Ishtarri 1 Blood Put this card on this Ishtarri and put 1 counter on this card. This Ishtarri get +X bleed, where X is the number of counter son this card. This Ishtarri can add a counter to this card as a +1 stealth action that costs X blood. Draft: Put this card on this Laibon and untap him or her. This card counts as an Aye and an Orun, even when on in play. Unholy Radiance Action Modifier/Reaction Burn Option Requires a Laibon with three or more Orun. Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a tapped Laibon. Gain 4 votes. Draft: As above, but only requires two Orun. Jua Vema Combat Fortitude for: This vampire treats aggravated damage as normal damage this round. FOR: As above, but for the remainder of the action if you tap an Aye on him or her. Draft: for: Prevent 1 damage. Tunnel Runner Ally Akunanse 4 Pool Werewolf with 3 life. 1 strength. 1 bleed. The Runner may play cards that require Animalism as a vampire and may burn 1 life to get +1 stealth. If he successfully bleeds you may look at the target Methuselahs hand. A vampire stealing life from the Runner takes 1 damage for each point stolen. If the Runner has 2 or fewer life during your untap phase, he gains 1 life. Lucian, the Perfect Clan: Guruhi (group 4) Capacity: 11 Disciplines: ANI AUS DOM OBF POT PRE Laibon: Strikes against Lucian cost and additional blood or life. A minion opposing Lucian may choose not to strike. +3 bleed. Sam

[ quoted text not captured ] I was really hoping that the Ishtarri get a decent mid-cap with CEL FOR. Maybe they will, but I doubt it. Is CEL FOR that strong? Most in clan combinations of two disciplines you get in a 5-cap or a 6-cap. The lowest CEL FOR vampire (discounting Sonja Blue) is Angelo. He is a 7-cap and Red List. Would this guy be that broken? Mr. X Ishtarri group 4 CEL FOR nec pre Laibon, 6 cap regards, pallando

Prince...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: > Lucian, the Perfect > Clan: Guruhi (group 4) > Capacity: 11 > Disciplines: ANI AUS DOM OBF POT PRE > Laibon: Strikes against Lucian cost and additional blood or life. A > minion opposing Lucian may choose not to strike. +3 bleed. Just because I love to ask for clarification: Does "strikes against Lucian" mean "any strike used by an opposing minion (or striking-retainer-thing) in combat with Lucian"? Or do certain strikes not qualify as being "against" him? Specifically: 1) [The base line question] Does a hand strike cost an additional blood/life? Yes, definitely. 2) Does a dodge cost an additional blood/life? 3) Does Strike Combat Ends cost an additional blood/life? 3a) If no, does Strike Combat Ends + Do Something (Cat Fear, etc) cost an additional blood/life? 4) Does "strike: equip molotov cocktail" cost an additional blood/life? Thanks!

[ quoted text not captured ] Lucian is nastier than the ICs for big bleed potential. Two cards and you've got a 9 point bleed. Combine him (maybe let Rafael de Corazon and/or Mistress Fanchon tag along for OBF DOM AUS +big bleed synergy) with some weenie AUS guys to clear the way of bounce and AI and you're a total bleedzooka. On the other end, he's got great potential as a bleed/bruiser. It should be fun to see all the decks he spawns. Tunnel Runner will love working with Mata Hari, I've got a deck eagerly anticipating his addition.

On May 20, 10:27 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > > Lucian, the Perfect > > Laibon: Strikes against Lucian cost and additional blood or life. A > > minion opposing Lucian may choose not to strike. +3 bleed. > Just because I love to ask for clarification: > Does "strikes against Lucian" mean "any strike used by an opposing > minion (or striking-retainer-thing) in combat with Lucian"? Nope. See also the exact wording parallel on True Faith. > Or do certain strikes not qualify as being "against" him? Yes. > Specifically: > 1) [The base line question] Does a hand strike cost an additional > blood/life? Yes, definitely. Correct. > 2) Does a dodge cost an additional blood/life? No. > 3) Does Strike Combat Ends cost an additional blood/life? In general, no. Specific SCE cards will (Oubliette superior, Catatonic Fear superior). > 3a) If no, does Strike Combat Ends + Do Something (Cat Fear, etc) cost > an additional blood/life? Yes. > 4) Does "strike: equip molotov cocktail" cost an additional blood/life? No. Lucian, the Perfect follows the True Faith model. Any question you might have about Lucian, the Perfect should already have been answered for True Faith. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

The Lasombra <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Does "strikes against Lucian" mean "any strike used by an opposing > > minion (or striking-retainer-thing) in combat with Lucian"? > Nope. > See also the exact wording parallel on True Faith. True Faith's text does not say anything about "strikes against" this minion: Put this card on a non-infernal mortal ally you control, or pay 2 pool to put this card on any non-infernal minion you control. Actions requiring Dominate [dom] or Presence [pre] cannot be directed at this minion. In combat, any damage this minion inflicts on an infernal minion is aggravated. Infernal minions cannot block or strike this minion. Burn this card if this minion becomes infernal. Maybe what you're referring to is "cannot...strike this minion", but I think that's different from what I'm asking. The specific word "against" is what is causing me to ask the question. As English is full of ambiguities, the sentence on Lucian could be interpreted as: Strikes, when in combat against Lucian, cost an additional blood or life. or Strikes that do something to Lucian cost an additional blood or life.

On May 20, 1:58 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > Strikes, when in combat against Lucian, cost an additional blood or life. Not this one, no. It isn't a Skin Trap effect. > or > Strikes that do something to Lucian cost an additional blood or life. That's the one.

[ quoted text not captured ] Um. No, it can't. Moreover, there are cards that use appropriate templates for that exact effect ("opposing minion"). (Would that the effort you expend to refute plainly sensical answers be instead targeted to deducing the answers in the first place.)

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > As English is full of ambiguities, the sentence on Lucian could be > > interpreted as: > > > > Strikes, when in combat against Lucian, cost an additional blood or life. > Um. No, it can't. Moreover, there are cards that use appropriate templates for > that exact effect ("opposing minion"). Um. Yes, it can. Because that was the way I first read it, unsnarkingly. But I saw that designer intent might have been otherwise, so I asked for clarification.

On May 20, 12:06 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Sometimes you have to act like a lawyer in order to parse what card text means. That terms are different may be a red flag, indicating a subtle difference, or it could be nothing. Defining terms is, in my opinion, the most crucial part of an argument or statement. Secret Library lists 1,973 different library cards and 1,288 different crypt cards by my count(aside from the new set). How can one be expected to memorize not only card text, but errata to each one of these? Does it hurt to ask for a point of clarification when new cards come out or when issues arise? Even if said issue has been addressed before, at worst you get an entry in the archive linking "lucian" and "strike against" for future reference. Like Jozxyqk, I wasn't clear what was implied by "Strikes against Lucian cost and additional blood or life." Clarification 1: Would this be any strike? If so, it might be better to write "when in combat with Lucian, strikes cost an additional blood or life." Answer: No, not any strike. Clarification 2: What sort of strikes qualify as being "strikes against Lucian?" Possible answer: Strikes that target Lucian with an effect and/or damage. Strike: Go to torpor Strike: Dodge and Hand strike(one strike) Strike: Combat ends and inflict 1 damage, etc. Things this would not count as "strikes against," would be Strike: Dodge or Combat Ends, Strike: Prevent two damage from the next hand or melee weapon strike, Strike: Equip... Possible gray area: Strikes that have no direct effect at long range, but grant a press (i.e. Lamb Into at vic), some strike that adds a counter but does not inflict damage, Strike: Destroy equipment (targets equipment, not minion), Strike: hands for 10 targeting a retainer, Strike: hand strike (at zero strength), Strike: Hand strike. Damage from this strike is reduced to zero. The list goes on and I've only been playing since LotN, so maybe more experienced players can think of more. This is a clean slate and I, like (I assume) Jozxyqk, try to be a good player and understand the rules. Having this conversation is good, it makes effects more clear and anyone who looks at it can go to a draft and say "I know exactly what that special means." Sincerely, Brandon

On May 20, 2:12 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Jozxyqk wrote: > > As English is full of ambiguities, the sentence on Lucian could be > > interpreted as: > > > Strikes, when in combat against Lucian, cost an additional blood or life. > > Um. No, it can't. Moreover, there are cards that use appropriate templates for > that exact effect ("opposing minion"). So, then, LSJ, what are you saying is the definition of "strikes against" Lucian? Because I haven't seen a clear definition of that anywhere. The True Faith precedent leads to some clarity (destroying his equipment would be OK, destroying his retainer would be OK, Catatonic Fear against him would cost extra), but there's still grey areas, as Brandon listed off - zero-strength? Autonomic Mastery at superior? Strikes that are known to be ineffective such as hand strikes at range? - D.J.

Prince...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: > On May 20, 1:01 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> The May issue of Eye of the Vortex features a preview article of Ebony Kingdom. >> >> http://www.eyeofthevortexonline.com/Magazine.php > Thanks Sam - I found the software to view the article hard to use, and clunky. > Luanda Magere > Clan: Ishtarri (group 4) > Capacity: 8 > Disciplines: CEL PRE PRO for > Laibon: Luanda gets +1 strength for each Orun he has. PRO? Not FOR? Oh why the continued hate for the Ishtarri... I do like the special however - I think it might be gross... > > Despiral > +1 Stealth Action > Ishtarri > 1 Blood > Put this card on this Ishtarri and put 1 counter on this card. This > Ishtarri get +X bleed, where X is the number of counter son this > card. This Ishtarri can add a counter to this card as a +1 stealth > action that costs X blood. > Draft: Put this card on this Laibon and untap him or her. This card > counts as an Aye and an Orun, even when on in play. > uhm. Some of this text seems to have been garbled. Especially the last clause: "even when on in play" ?!? Seems like this could be strong. I assume if you play Despiral, and then Freak Drive, you can't place a counter, since that's an action that requires the self-same Despiral card? *But* if an Ishtarri has one already on him, you can take the Despiral card action. Or not? > Unholy Radiance > Action Modifier/Reaction > Burn Option > Requires a Laibon with three or more Orun. > Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a tapped Laibon. Gain 4 > votes. > Draft: As above, but only requires two Orun. > Strong. Orun need more of a boost than Aye I thought. And it looks like we are getting it. > Jua Vema > Combat > Fortitude > for: This vampire treats aggravated damage as normal damage this > round. > FOR: As above, but for the remainder of the action if you tap an Aye > on him or her. > Draft: for: Prevent 1 damage. > Huh. Seems corner case at FOR, but nice at for in certain metagames. > Tunnel Runner > Ally > Akunanse > 4 Pool > Werewolf with 3 life. 1 strength. 1 bleed. > The Runner may play cards that require Animalism as a vampire and may > burn 1 life to get +1 stealth. If he successfully bleeds you may look > at the target Methuselahs hand. A vampire stealing life from the > Runner takes 1 damage for each point stolen. If the Runner has 2 or > fewer life during your untap phase, he gains 1 life. crazy. I like this guy, even as expensive as he is. Seems like the Design Team is figuring out how to cost allies better. And... *NOT* Unique. > > Lucian, the Perfect > Clan: Guruhi (group 4) > Capacity: 11 > Disciplines: ANI AUS DOM OBF POT PRE > Laibon: Strikes against Lucian cost and additional blood or life. A > minion opposing Lucian may choose not to strike. +3 bleed. > Lutz and now Lucian - "luuk" out for vamps that start with LU, they seem to be strong, bordering on broken. I think Archon Investigation use will increase, just to get rid of Lucian the Perfect. What a great discipline spread and great special spread. He's either a monster S&B, or a monster block/Combat (no for is the weakness there). Of course, the OBF, DOM, and AUS doesn't really dovetail in too much with the rest of his clan. best - chris

"librarian" <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote in message news:gv1v19$tuj$1...@news.eternal-september.org... > Prince...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: >> On May 20, 1:01 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >>> The May issue of Eye of the Vortex features a preview article of Ebony Kingdom. >>> >>> http://www.eyeofthevortexonline.com/Magazine.php >> > > Thanks Sam - > > I found the software to view the article hard to use, and clunky. And it crashed my browser twice - on two difference machines. Fred

On May 20, 11:08 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > > Despiral > > +1 Stealth Action > > Ishtarri > > 1 Blood > > Put this card on this Ishtarri and put 1 counter on this card. This > > Ishtarri get +X bleed, where X is the number of counter son this > > card. This Ishtarri can add a counter to this card as a +1 stealth > > action that costs X blood. > > Draft: Put this card on this Laibon and untap him or her. This card > > counts as an Aye and an Orun, even when on in play. > > uhm. Some of this text seems to have been garbled. Especially the last > clause: "even when on in play" ?!? > > Seems like this could be strong. I assume if you play Despiral, and > then Freak Drive, you can't place a counter, since that's an action that > requires the self-same Despiral card? *But* if an Ishtarri has one > already on him, you can take the Despiral card action. Or not? I'd call it borderline worse than Heart of the City. It's not often you'll want or need more than +2 bleed, and if you go higher with Despiral the blood cost will be huge. +4 bleed would be 4 actions and 7 blood, if my math is correct (1 action for the card and 3 more for 3 extra counters. 1 blood for the card, 1+2+3 for the extra counters). Not sure why you shouldn't be able to place a counter on it the turn you played the card though. I think it's possible with Call the Great Beast (not 100% sure though).

On 21 mai, 01:06, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'd call it borderline worse than Heart of the City. It's not often > you'll want or need more than +2 bleed, and if you go higher with > Despiral the blood cost will be huge. +4 bleed would be 4 actions and > 7 blood, if my math is correct (1 action for the card and 3 more for 3 > extra counters. 1 blood for the card, 1+2+3 for the extra counters). Or you could play two Despiral. And for 4 blood, you get +4 bleed. > Not sure why you shouldn't be able to place a counter on it the turn > you played the card though. I think it's possible with Call the Great > Beast (not 100% sure though). Yep, you can place a counter on it the turn you play the card. It is not the same action.

On May 21, 8:10 am, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > "librarian" <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote in message > > news:gv1v19$tuj$1...@news.eternal-september.org... > > > PrinceofB...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: > >> On May 20, 1:01 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >>> The May issue of Eye of the Vortex features a preview article of Ebony Kingdom. > > >>>http://www.eyeofthevortexonline.com/Magazine.php > > > Thanks Sam - > > > I found the software to view the article hard to use, and clunky. > > And it crashed my browser twice - on two difference machines. > > Fred I am actually surprised Lucian has +3 Bleed and not a title. I would have thought a honking great big Guruhi with AUS DOM PRE would have at least 1 vote to his name. And while he may not dovetail effortlessly into his own clan (with side abilities) he meshes pretty darned well with Lasombra and !Ventrue... !Ven + Pre??? You get no votes and I have plenty of Pre to spare... Lasombra + Ani or Pre?? Wowser... I can easily see an African Lasombra deck with Mozambiques & Lucian going on here... especially with the new Aye/Orun tech starting to appear. I love the "stealing life hurts" on Tunnel Runner... GOLD... Tremere don't like tunnel runners... hehehehe

> Um. No, it can't. Moreover, there are cards that use appropriate templates for > that exact effect ("opposing minion"). > > (Would that the effort you expend to refute plainly sensical answers be instead > targeted to deducing the answers in the first place.)- Hide quoted text - Scott, what is with the attitude? The guy asked a simple question, it's easy to see how he could have interpreted the text the way that he did. The snark is both unbecoming and unprofessional. jase

[ quoted text not captured ] Do the guys who made this article understand anything about VTES ??? Unholy Radiance (action mod / reaction) : "watch out for blocks on this card, though" Tunnel Runner "can bleed itself to do things with +1 stealth" ^_^ !! Those and strange evaluations on the potential of each card. The guy seems to have information but not to know what things are really about... All in all I'm not thrilled but what I saw in the previews. I don't get the feeling that anything there is really going to increase the playability of those bloodlines. As for the Aye / Orun, waiting to have 3 of them for most interesting effects seem pretty handicaping to me (I would have preferred, maybe, a progressive effect to none / all), that mechanism risks being as used as the Trophy or less. Of course, we need to see all the cards to get confirmation on this. Orpheus