Hi,
Never posted here before but now feel compelled by recent confusion (on my Part
only) to post this question.
I was wondering what the *exact* procedure was in terms of reacting and playing
action mods.
well, in other words this is how a standard bleed goes in our group:
1) Meth. bleeds prey
2) prey says, "I do not block' and proceeds to touch his pool, suggesting that
he will take the bleed.
3) Bleeding meth plays action mod. relishing the thought of that nasty 5 point
bleed after his conditioning is played.
4)prey says, "Oh well in that case..." and proceeds to flick the bleed to his
own prey.
The thing that makes me confused is this: in the rules it says that when you
take an action, a meth. may play a reaction card "In response to" that
action. suggesting that if a methuselah bleeds you, you must play that flick
straight away?
hmmm... I have been playing it the other way, as has every other person I have
ever met for a long time.
any thoughts please?
-Tim
hmmmm-?
the online rules also say this:
"Note that all modifications made to a minion's stealth or intercept remain in
effect for the duration of the action. Increased stealth and intercept return
to normal after the action is resolved. "
so I dunno, could be anything or nothing,
who knows or dares to dream?
>I was wondering what the *exact* procedure was in terms of reacting and
>playing
>action mods.
Rough outline (you wanted exact, I'll give you exact!):
#1. Acting Methusaleh announces the bleed or other action (and any terms if
applicable).
#2. Acting Methusaleh has the opportunity to play any cards or effects that are
played as the action is announced. Acting Methusaleh can play as many as he/she
would like. When he/she is done, the Acting Methusaleh asks whether the
Targeted Methusaleh desires to play any cards/effects in response. Note that
asking such a question implies that the Acting Methusaleh is finished playing
any such effects (so if the Targeted Methusaleh declines, then the Acting
Methusaleh loses any further opportunities). After each effects played by the
Targeted Methusaleh, you loop back to the beginning of this step (the acting
Methusaleh once again has the opportunity to play any cards he/she wishes).
When both the Acting and Targeted Methusaleh have declined to play any effects
or cards, other Methusalehs (starting clock-wise of the Acting Methusaleh) have
the opportunity to play cards/effects (though as before, the Acting and
Targeted Methusalehs have the opportunity to respond after each such effect is
played).
*** Also note that "interrupt" style cards (Sudden Reversal, Direct
Intervention, Rewind Time, etc.) don't follow this standard and are played
immediately after the card that will be countered is played. Similarly, there
may be specific effects or cards that are exceptions to this general rule.
Also, if this is an undirected action, then instead of a Targeted Methusaleh,
you ask your prey and then your predator.
#3. Next, repeat step #2 except cards are not limited to those "played as you
announce your action." (Procedure of other players playing cards matches step
#2).
#4. Acting Methusaleh asks the Targeted Methusaleh (or prey if undirected) if
he/she wishes to block.
#5. If so (he/she desires to block), repeat step #3 (Acting Methusaleh once
again gets to play cards like stealth, Kiss of Ra, whatever). Continue this
until the block succeeds or the Targeted Methusaleh declines to block.
#6. If the action was undirected, repeat steps #3-#5 except that you now ask
your predator about blocking or playing cards. After #5 is completed, continue
on to step #7.
#7. Repeat steps #3-#5 but ask for "any other block attempts" and if so, refer
to that particular Methusaleh (instead of the "Targeted Methusaleh." If
multiple players want to block, then order of precedence is Targeted Methusaleh
(if directed) or Prey and then Predator (if undirected), and then clockwise
from the acting player. This particular loop can often be ignored, but is
important when Anneke, Enzo, or lots of AUS or SPI is on the table. When all
players have declined to attempt to block, go to step #8.
#8. After all block attempts have been made, the Acting Methusaleh once again
has the opportunity to play any cards/effects (just like step #3).
#9. Action resolves.
Once again let me stress that in any of these situations, once the Acting
Methusaleh asks other players if they wish to play any cards, this means that
the Acting Methusaleh is passing. So if, after players decline to block a bleed
action and the Acting Methusaleh asks the bleedee if he/she wishes to play
anything and the bleedee declines, the Acting Methusaleh cannot throw a
Conditioning anymore.
Also, if the target of the action ever changes (i.e. via Deflection), another
entire blocking process ensues so go back through the entire process starting
at step #3.
Hope that helps a bit...
>well, in other words this is how a standard bleed goes in our group:
This is an example of a standard, simplified procedure (which is okay in casual
games though it is advised to get in the habit of stepping through phases).
>1) Meth. bleeds prey
Fine.
>2) prey says, "I do not block' and proceeds to touch his pool, suggesting
>that
>he will take the bleed.
Fine.
>3) Bleeding meth plays action mod. relishing the thought of that nasty 5
>point
>bleed after his conditioning is played.
Fine.
>4)prey says, "Oh well in that case..." and proceeds to flick the bleed to his
>own prey.
>
Fine.
>The thing that makes me confused is this: in the rules it says that when you
>take an action, a meth. may play a reaction card "In response to" that
>action. suggesting that if a methuselah bleeds you, you must play that flick
>straight away?
No, you don't have to play the Deflection immediately. You can play it any time
before the action resolves (assuming you haven't passed on the opportunity) but
you can't play it if your current block attempt is successful.
Halcyan 2
>"Note that all modifications made to a minion's stealth or intercept remain
>in
>effect for the duration of the action. Increased stealth and intercept return
>to normal after the action is resolved. "
Correct. So if you bleed and I block and you play a Lost in Crowds for +2
stealth, that +2 stealth remains for the duration of the action (so if I
deflect it, it'll still be at +2 stealth). Similarly, if you bleed and I block
with Anneke, you play +1 stealth, I play +1 intercept, and you play another
stealth, then the intercept I played on Anneke is still in effect (which is
important if I decide to block again later on).
This is also significant when one plays with cards that continue the action:
Vampire A bleeds, Vampire B blocks, and they proceed to play a total of +5
stealth and +5 intercept. Combat ensues, Vampire A plays Form of Mist to
continue the action. The action is still at +5 stealth. But Vampire B still has
+5 intercept, so if he/she managed to untap or Wakes and can then provide
another intercept, he/she can block again.
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2 wrote:
> >The thing that makes me confused is this: in the rules it says that when you
> >take an action, a meth. may play a reaction card "In response to" that
> >action. suggesting that if a methuselah bleeds you, you must play that flick
> >straight away?
>
> No, you don't have to play the Deflection immediately. You can play it any time
> before the action resolves (assuming you haven't passed on the opportunity) but
> you can't play it if your current block attempt is successful.
Correct. (on all the snipped parts as well).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20020804072446...@mb-cc.aol.com>...
<snip turn description>
>
>
> Once again let me stress that in any of these situations, once the Acting
> Methusaleh asks other players if they wish to play any cards, this means that
> the Acting Methusaleh is passing. So if, after players decline to block a bleed
> action and the Acting Methusaleh asks the bleedee if he/she wishes to play
> anything and the bleedee declines, the Acting Methusaleh cannot throw a
> Conditioning anymore.
>
> Also, if the target of the action ever changes (i.e. via Deflection), another
> entire blocking process ensues so go back through the entire process starting
> at step #3.
>
So, I bleed and I ask "do you block?", everyone declines I can still
play conditioning. However, say it goes through the same steps and
then I ask (after blockers), "do you flick?" ot is now too late for me
to play cards (assuming the reacting methuselah declines)?
Seems pretty much how we have been playing it (without overtly going
through the process step by step). Whadda ya think Jerebulous?
> Halcyan 2
On 4 Aug 2002 19:37:00 -0700, mud...@hotmail.com (scrote) wrote:
>So, I bleed and I ask "do you block?", everyone declines I can still
>play conditioning.
Correct.
>However, say it goes through the same steps and
>then I ask (after blockers), "do you flick?"
This is not a valid question and has no bearing on game play.
You can certainly ask if they would like to play any reactions, but
if they refuse, you have already passed on your opportunity to modify
the action.
After an announcement of no more block attempts, you can modify the
bleed. If you do not, there is no other question you can ask that
will allow you to modify it without another player playing a card or
effect.
>ot is now too late for me
>to play cards (assuming the reacting methuselah declines)?
Assuming all players decline to play reaction cards, then it is too
late for you to modify the action.
>Seems pretty much how we have been playing it (without overtly going
>through the process step by step). Whadda ya think Jerebulous?
You may play the bleed bounce cards:
when the bleed is announced.
after a stealth card is played.
after a bleed modifier is played.
after a card is played that makes the action unblockable.
after a declaration that you will not block.
after someone else bounces the bleed to you.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
http://www.TheLasombra.com