In article <3j7cs6$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote:
>Bum's Rush says "Do not replace until after combat"
>
>Is that after the Bum's Rush combat or any resulting combat?
>
>I.E., if the Rush is intercepted, can the card be replaced then (as the
>action is over and there will be no Rush combat) or is it not (as there IS
>a combat going on).
>
>I lean to the second interpretation because of problems resulting from
>Form of Mist superior (end combat, continue action), but I'd like an
>official ruling.
The "Do not replace until after combat" phrase is a very
overused (and in some placed very inappropriately used) phrase in the
game. I believe the intent is that you do not replace the card until
after the action has run its course, as the loss of a card in your hand
is the cost of the action.
Thus in this case, you don't replace the Bum's Rush until after
*any* combat.
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu
| ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------
"Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK
Bum's Rush says "Do not replace until after combat"
Is that after the Bum's Rush combat or any resulting combat?
I.E., if the Rush is intercepted, can the card be replaced then (as the
action is over and there will be no Rush combat) or is it not (as there IS
a combat going on).
I lean to the second interpretation because of problems resulting from
Form of Mist superior (end combat, continue action), but I'd like an
official ruling.
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
In article <3j7cs6$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) writes:
[ quoted text not captured ]
The card says: If combat occurs, you get an optionsl manuver. It
doesn't say that you get the optional manuver only if the bum's rush is
intercepted. It is my interpretation that if you get the manuver is
any compat occurs, you do not get to replace the card until combat
(intercepted or not) ends.
Poc...@BYU.EDU (Jason Moore) writes:
[ quoted text not captured ]
The text of an action is moot if the action is successfully blocked.
Govern the Unaligned doesn't say you put 3 blood on a younger
uncontrolled vampire only if the action is unblocked. But we all know
better.
Benjamin Sanders (b...@dcs.ed.ac.uk) wrote:
: In article <3jl2bu$k...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
: >
: > Bum's Rush says not to replace it until after combat, so you don't. Whether
: > the combat starts by virtue of the card text, or by virtue of the action
: > being blocked, is irrelevant.
: >
: Bums Rush give an optional manover in the combat - do you still get
: this manover if the bums rush action is blocked?
You know, yesterday I would have told you, "Don't be an idiot. The card
was never successfully played, so any wording on it is irrelevant. Of
COURSE you don't get the optional maneuver."
Now Tom comes out and says that whether the card is successfully played
or not, at least _some_ of the text still has to be followed. One could
seriously argue then that all of the text has to be followed, and the
maneuver is there.
So how 'bout it Tom - do we ignore all the text on the card, abide by all
the text, ort some half-assed combination of the two, which will then
ahve to be re-figured for every different card?
Shane Travis | There are two kinds of men who never amount to
sht...@duke.usask.ca | very much: those who cannot do what they are told,
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | and those who can do nothing else.
| -- Cyrus H.K. Curtis
Bum's Rush says not to replace it until after combat, so you don't. Whether
the combat starts by virtue of the card text, or by virtue of the action
being blocked, is irrelevant.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
In article <3jn7k9$j...@tribune.usask.ca>,
Shane Hamish William Travis <sht...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
>Benjamin Sanders (b...@dcs.ed.ac.uk) wrote:
>: In article <3jl2bu$k...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>: >
>: > Bum's Rush says not to replace it until after combat, so you don't. Whether
>: > the combat starts by virtue of the card text, or by virtue of the action
>: > being blocked, is irrelevant.
>: >
>: Bums Rush give an optional manover in the combat - do you still get
>: this manover if the bums rush action is blocked?
>
>You know, yesterday I would have told you, "Don't be an idiot. The card
>was never successfully played, so any wording on it is irrelevant. Of
>COURSE you don't get the optional maneuver."
>
>Now Tom comes out and says that whether the card is successfully played
>or not, at least _some_ of the text still has to be followed. One could
>seriously argue then that all of the text has to be followed, and the
>maneuver is there.
>
>So how 'bout it Tom - do we ignore all the text on the card, abide by all
>the text, ort some half-assed combination of the two, which will then
>ahve to be re-figured for every different card?
Do not replace until after combat means: do not replace until after the action
is completed.
If this is a half-assed interpretation, then so be it, but I don't think
it is.
You Get the +1 stealth on Govern the Unaligned (superior), even if the action
is blocked yes? You don't get to put 3 pool onan uncontrolled vampire, tho'
do you? What's the problem?
(The +1 Stealth, Do Not Replace until After Combat are global modifiers,
not parts of the successful action, so they always take effect).
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) wrote:
: Do not replace until after combat means: do not replace until after the action
: is completed.: You Get the +1 stealth on Govern the Unaligned (superior), even if the action: is blocked yes? You don't get to put 3 pool onan uncontrolled vampire, tho'
: do you? What's the problem?
Only _slightly_ irrelevant here... Stealth is _only_ useful to determine
if the action gets blocked or not, and if the action goes through, then
it has no further bearing on the card.
The problem with Tom's ruling is this: Combat is referred to _twice_ on
the card, to wit:
"Do not replace until after combat."
"...You have an optional maneuver usable during this combat."
I always assumed that these two references to combat were only valid if
combat ensued as a direct result of the action going through successfully
- if the action was unsuccessful then the card was burned same as if you
had tried a Govern the Unaligned or Computer Hacking.
Tom's ruling states that the _first_ reference to combat applies to ANY
combat the vampire gets in as part of this card being played: Successful,
Blocked, Fast Reaction played on it; _whatever_. Combat is Combat.
What I am asking is this: if the _first_ modifier now takes effect in
any combat, why shouldn't the second? They are both on the card, and a
serious argument could be made that the wording 'this combat' refers to
the combat in which the card is not being replaced.
[ quoted text not captured ]
My thought is this -
Suppose there were a Protean + bleed action card that said "Do not replace
until after combat". If this were blocked, it wouldn't be replaced until
after the combat.
Just because Bum's Rush causes a combat if sucessful shouldn't make it
behave differently if blocked.
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
Shane Hamish William Travis <sht...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
>You know, yesterday I would have told you, "Don't be an idiot. The card
>was never successfully played, so any wording on it is irrelevant. Of
>COURSE you don't get the optional maneuver."
>
>Now Tom comes out and says that whether the card is successfully played
>or not, at least _some_ of the text still has to be followed. One could
>seriously argue then that all of the text has to be followed, and the
>maneuver is there.
Observe that "do not replace until after combat" is in bold face, just
as text like "Only usable by a Prince or Justicar" would be. Bold faced
text applies each and every time you attempt the action, regardless of
whether it's successful or not. Normally the bold face text restricts your
ability to use the card, but (as in this case) it can also restrict
your ability to replace the card afterwards.
[ quoted text not captured ]