rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

What would you like to see in an expansion?

37 messages from 21 participants · 22 June 2008 – 28 June 2008
original thread on Google Groups

dog$

Firstly, I did a quick search and it doesn't seem like this has been asked for a while, so if I missed a more recent thread regarding this I apologize (and would appreciate a link to it if so). I recently asked this question of a few players and was surprised at the first response: "More Fortitude cards." Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I don't look at an expansion merely in terms of what new abilities are provided - I'm just as interested in the concept behind the expansion, the focus behind it. I think the formula of having a focus on a sect, clan group, &c. has worked very well but from my understanding with the next expansion being more Camarilla support, I believe it might be time to consider other options as to the basis behind an expansion. From what I could tell, I don't think most people really like the smaller expansion sets, such as Sword of Caine, but I always thought that it would be nice to have an expansion which focused purely on equipment - more distinct guns and weapons, weapon enhancements, clothing, vehicles, and so on. I guess that probably wouldn't go over so well. A larger vision I've had for the game since the Jyhad days was for cities and locations. I always liked the feeling of amassing a pool of global locations to support your power and always wanted to see more of them. I also liked the concept of controlling Princes and Archbishops of cities, which made me feel like I truly had substantial worldwide influence. However, I think this aspect has been somewhat neglected in the game, or at least never really realized to its full potential. As the game stands now, the only functional ability having a Prince or Archbishop gives you is two votes and the ability to play a handful of cards - this works, it has worked fine, but in terms of the game, it puts all such vampires on equal ground. I personally think there should be some difference between controlling the Prince of London and the Archbishop of Detroit, given how different those two cities are. Also, in considering the Praxis/Crusade/Fee Stake cards, they are mostly interchangeable - of course they should be part of the game, but as it stands now there's really no reason to put any thought into which city title card to put in a deck (beyond those with clan boons, &c.). As a result of this, I generally do not see city titles contested in the games I play. Maybe to most people this wouldn't matter, but, considering V:tM's By Night book series and the wide diversity of cities represented, I'd like to see the game expand upon this area. So my grand idea would be - to make Unique City Locations. In terms of game mechanics, they would be locations as normal, but some rule enhancements (or an event card to convey such) would encourage players to use the locations or even use a specific city. Maybe have a rule where, if you control the related Prince, Archbishop, Baron, or even Powerbase, you could play them as Trifles. Or such title-holding vampires could take a +1 stealth action to search for them in the library and let you play them as an out-of-turn trifle. Or maybe something more drastic such as requiring such titled vampire or Powerbase to play them, and have their use nullified while such title or location is contested. Some card examples: Packard Plant 1 Pool Master: Unique Detroit Location. Vampires you control get an additional +1 stealth on Leave Torpor actions. IRS Headquarters 2 Pool Master: Unique Washington, DC Location. Tap this location and choose any Imbued or mortal ally. The chosen minion taps and cannot play any reaction cards until your discard phase. A main underlying concept would be to have the locations support the functionality behind the default clan(s) of the titleholder(s) of such city (Ventrue and !Toreador for Chicago, !Nos and Tzimisce for Detroit, &c.) or reflect the city itself (Pittsburgh would have ways to manufacture or recycle weapons, &c.) The point in all of this would be to encourage people to want certain cities in their control, and to better reflect the amount of power possessed by controlling certain cities. I would think it could possibly result in more city title contestment occuring and thus add more tension in the game and give players something to consider when choosing which vampires and/or titles they want to have in their deck. I think it would be really interesting if it worked well enough that players would want to make city-themed decks, like a Chicago Brujah deck, or a Tremere Athens deck. I'm tempted to write up a series of cards like the examples I gave, but I'm not sure I want to invest the time in doing so if I never do anything with it and it is all for naught. ... Anyway, that's my grand idea. I'd like to hear yours. If you actually read all of that, I thank you very much and I'd appreciate any reply, even "tl;dr" if you don't care what I have to say but have an idea of what kind of expansion you want anyway. Thanks.

The Lasombra

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:35:56 -0700 (PDT), "dog$" wrote: >From what I could tell, I don't think most people really like the >smaller expansion sets, such as Sword of Caine, I think Sword of Caine and Twilight Rebellion type sets sell well enough. They just don't add enough diversity all at once that entire playgroups will adapt their decks to use the new cards immediately. I have a local player who just recently starting building decks with the "new" clans of the Laibon for the first time. (He has had cards from the set since the release of Legacies of Blood.) >but I always thought >that it would be nice to have an expansion which focused purely on >equipment - more distinct guns and weapons, weapon enhancements, >clothing, vehicles, and so on. I guess that probably wouldn't go over >so well. I think this (equipment set) would work well as a fixed set, like the 10th Anniversary Tins or Blood Shadowed Court. I don't think something that focused would do well in random boosters. >So my grand idea would be - to make Unique City Locations. In terms of >game mechanics, they would be locations as normal, but some rule >enhancements (or an event card to convey such) would encourage players >to use the locations or even use a specific city. Maybe have a rule >where, if you control the related Prince, Archbishop, Baron, or even >Powerbase, you could play them as Trifles. Or such title-holding >vampires could take a +1 stealth action to search for them in the >library and let you play them as an out-of-turn trifle. Or maybe >something more drastic such as requiring such titled vampire or >Powerbase to play them, and have their use nullified while such title >or location is contested. I like this concept, it makes sense and adds depth to the game without making it too much more complex. >Some card examples: >Packard Plant >1 Pool >Master: Unique Detroit Location. >Vampires you control get an additional +1 stealth on Leave Torpor >actions. >IRS Headquarters >2 Pool >Master: Unique Washington, DC Location. >Tap this location and choose any Imbued or mortal ally. The chosen >minion taps and cannot play any reaction cards until your discard >phase. http://www.thelasombra.com/random.txt >A main underlying concept would be to have the locations support the >functionality behind the default clan(s) of the titleholder(s) of such >city (Ventrue and !Toreador for Chicago, !Nos and Tzimisce for >Detroit, &c.) or reflect the city itself (Pittsburgh would have ways >to manufacture or recycle weapons, &c.) >The point in all of this would be to encourage people to want certain >cities in their control, and to better reflect the amount of power >possessed by controlling certain cities. I would think it could >possibly result in more city title contestment occuring and thus add >more tension in the game and give players something to consider when >choosing which vampires and/or titles they want to have in their deck. >I think it would be really interesting if it worked well enough that >players would want to make city-themed decks, like a Chicago Brujah >deck, or a Tremere Athens deck. >I'm tempted to write up a series of cards like the examples I gave, >but I'm not sure I want to invest the time in doing so if I never do >anything with it and it is all for naught. Certainly make up the cards, and share them with the world, here: http://www.thelasombra.com/newcards.htm If you get enough cards together, and hold a "Local Storyline Event" and then have the winner of your event win a Continental Championship, we can get White Wolf to use that as part of the next global storyline event. Robert Goudie & Gines Quinonero - June 13, 2004 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b3364f478bef2312 "Fortunately, a Continental Championship win isn't the only way a storyline may be validated. White Wolf may choose to validate any storyline it feels is particularly compelling or popular with players." >Anyway, that's my grand idea. I'd like to hear yours. If you actually >read all of that, I thank you very much and I'd appreciate any reply, >even "tl;dr" if you don't care what I have to say but have an idea of >what kind of expansion you want anyway. >Thanks. I would like to see an expansion that reflected something of areas where the game is doing well. If the game has taken off in South Africa, then a card or three for the Laibon can be added to the next set. If the game has exploded in the Czech Republic, then something specific for the clans that live in that area per the WOD fiction might be appropriate. Etc. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com Your best online source for information about V:TES. Now also featuring individual card sales and sales of booster and starter box displays.

Malone

[ quoted text not captured ] I think your idea for geographic identity playing more of a role is very good for adding flavor, and very executable. City names could be keywords on library cards. A few old cards could be grandfathered in without any undue awkwardness, I think -- Tower of London being a 'London' location, for example, or Powerbase: Los Angeles a 'Los Angeles' location shouldn't be at all confusing. There could even be city allies... Leona Helmsley 1 pool Unique Ghoul Ally New York 1 life 0 strength 1 bleed New York locations cost you one less blood or pool. Leona may steal a life from a mortal ally as a (D) action. Any number of mechanisms could be employed, and there wouldn't need to be any new rules. There could be an event that triggers everything... Urban Consolidation Event Do not replace this card as normal; you may use a discard phase action to replace it. Any vampire with a city title may take control of a location of that city as a (D) action; Barons get +1 stealth on this action. As a discard phase action, any methuselah may tap a city location to gain one pool; if the vampire with that city's title is ready, he or she also gains a blood from the blood bank. ... or some kind of city central cards that makes things kick in ... Mexico City Central +2 stealth action, requires a vampire with the Mexico City title Put this card in play. You may tap this card to give a minion you control +1 stealth when bleeding or +2 intercept when blocking an equip action. During each other methuselah's untap phase, he or she burns one pool for each Mexico City location or ally he or she controls. Blood Brothers of the Mexico City Circle you control get +X strength when in combat with an acting minion, where X is the number of Mexico City locations you control. Any vampire with the Mexico City title may take control of this card as a +2 stealth (D) action. ... and/or special text on some titled vamps ... Queen Anne, Advanced Ventrue 10 [aus obf DOM FOR NEC PRE] Camarilla Prince of London While Anne has a London title you may tap her to take control of a London location or ally as a master phase action that costs 1 pool. If Anne's title is contested, the methuselah controling the contesting vampire burns one pool each turn he or she does not yield. [merge] Once per combat, Anne may burn a card at random from your hand to strike for 1R aggravated damage. (These are all just for demonstration. Of course the designers could come up with better stuff.)

nys...@cs.com

More support cards to make playable the theme of allies. (And yes, I do understand that a way must be found to do this without overpowering the Imbued). Specifically, I would like to see more cards exploring the "day versus night" theme of the power of certain allies to operate by daylight, when vampires are relatively powerless, and the corresponding need for vampires to recruit daytime blockers. I would like to see cards, analogous to anarch tri-discipline cards, but usuable by older vampires rather than anarchs, and with the focus being on versatility (access to multiple options from possessing multiple disciplines). A card that lets you take someone's stuff after you torporize/kill him. Perhaps a few advanced versions of underpowered group 1 vampires. More cards that grant abilities to other vampires based on the disciplines they have. A "round ends" effect, that works like "combat ends" except that one proceeds to the press phase. On Jun 22, 8:35 am, "dog$" <011...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think the formula of having a > focus on a sect, clan group, &c. has worked very well but > from my understanding with the next expansion being more > Camarilla support, I believe it might be time to consider > other options as to the basis behind an expansion. Perhaps ally-themed, incorporating some of the above ideas. > From what I could tell, I don't think most people really like > the smaller expansion sets, such as Sword of Caine, but I > always thought that it would be nice to have an expansion > which focused purely on equipment - more distinct guns > and weapons, weapon enhancements, clothing, vehicles > and so on. I guess that probably wouldn't go over so well. Well, weapons are exciting because anyone can use them -- in contrast to the latest Vicissitude card, which most folks just stash away in case they ever decide to play Tzimisce. But I'm not sure the game needs a greater variety of guns and melee weapons. Sorry for not commenting on your city idea. Have not had time to think about it yet.

Peter D Bakija

On Jun 22, 2:39 pm, nyst...@cs.com wrote: > Perhaps a few advanced versions of underpowered group 1 vampires. I'd really like to see this sort of thing happen more, but the two examples that have already done (Tusk and Lazarus) didn't really improve on them much--yeah, Merged Lazarus isn't horrible (he gets a manuver, 1R damage, and can pay a blood to press), but that is still a lot of work to make a mediocre 9 cap into a slightly less mediocre 9 cap. Advanced Tusk has nice synergy with regular Tusk (look at your top card, and then get to burn it for +1 stealth if it is obfuscate), but he is still a 6 cap with one superior and only 4 total points in disciplines. So I totally agree with you, but I'd like to see them advance them a little more :-) -Peter

XZealot

> From what I could tell, I don't think most people really like the > smaller expansion sets, such as Sword of Caine, but I always thought > that it would be nice to have an expansion which focused purely on > equipment - more distinct guns and weapons, weapon enhancements, > clothing, vehicles, and so on. I guess that probably wouldn't go over > so well. I think that you would be mistaken about the smaller set. I find that they are very popular with my players as they only need a box or two to complete a working collection of cards to build decks around. I like them myself as I only need to buy two boxes rather than 5 or 6 to get the required critical mass of cards. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

Izaak

> Specifically, I would like to see more cards exploring the "day versus > night" theme of the power of certain allies to operate by daylight, > when vampires are relatively powerless, and the corresponding need for > vampires to recruit daytime blockers. I too, like this to be explored further. A simple example would be to make ally X unblockable by vampires and then make it weak against acting vampires. For example, a card like this: Daytime Service Master, trifle Put this card on a mortal ally. The minion with this card cannot be blocked by vampires. Any vampire controlled by your predator or prey may enter combat with the minion with this card as a (D) action. The minion with this card gets -1 strength when in combat with a vampire. I would also like to see more allies like Political Ally and The Slashers that are clanbound and fit in with the flavor of each clan. As is, the lines that seperates the various clans in terms of what they can do gets blurrier each expansion and I'd really like something to make a clearer distinction between them.

as...@hotmail.com

[ quoted text not captured ] The idea of city theme-cards is excellent! I would like to see different variations of Voter Captivation. Like "successful vote = gain a animal ally" or "successful vote = gain a 1- cap vamp" or "successful vote = gain +1 strenght" and so on. But I seem to get Imbued and Masai Blood Milk instead. Sad.

Dragos

[ quoted text not captured ] On that same "ally" take, I'd like to see other Crypt minions than Vampires and Imbued. Yeah, I know it's just me, but hey someone is asking! Dan

I. M. Bur

> If the game has taken off in South Africa, then a card or three for > the Laibon can be added to the next set. If the game has exploded in > the Czech Republic, then something specific for the clans that live in > that area per the WOD fiction might be appropriate. Yeah, the game really explodes in Czech Republic, with Hungarians taking the top 2 spots in our national Championship. Little Tailor of Prague (Advanced) Clan: Tzimisce (group 2) Capacity: 8 Disciplines: ANI AUS VIC dem Sabbat Archbishop of Prague. Merged: If there are any Hungarian players at the table, they each loose 1 pool during your untap phase. -- -bur ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

XZealot

> Anyway, that's my grand idea. I'd like to hear yours. If you actually > read all of that, I thank you very much and I'd appreciate any reply, > even "tl;dr" if you don't care what I have to say but have an idea of > what kind of expansion you want anyway. Mages baby! [ quoted text not captured ]

xcver

[ quoted text not captured ] > But I seem to get Imbued and Masai Blood Milk instead. Sad.- Zitierten Text ausblenden - > > - Zitierten Text anzeigen - +1 strength would be nice and could fit nicely with y potence voting theme...but gaining minions could be ehm too good.

James Coupe

In message <70c706a4-9e9f-408b...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroup [ quoted text not captured ] >+1 strength would be nice and could fit nicely with y potence voting >theme...but gaining minions could be ehm too good. It doesn't have to be that good. For example, you errata Voter Captivation to make it a "Captivation" card (or any other keyword), and add "Only one Captivation card can be played on an action." Then you can create all sorts of things. The following are ideas that aren't thoroughly balanced - appropriate costs may need to be added. :-) Speak Softly Action Modifier Requires Potence Captivation. Only usable after a successful referendum. Put this card on this vampire; a vampire can only have one Speak Softly. Only one Captivation card can be played on an action. Pot: The vampire with this card has +1 strength. POT: As [pot], and this vampire can burn this card to make a hand strike at +3 damage. The card art would, of course, have a picture of Theodore Roosevelt on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_Diplomacy I Have a Dream Action Modifier Requires a title worth 2 or more votes. Captivation. Only usable after a successful referendum. Only one Captivation card can be played on an action. Put this card in play. This card is a UNIQUE vampire with 1 capacity. You may search your hand, ash heap, or library (shuffle afterwards) for a Discipline card and move it to this vampire. You may move a blood to this vampire from one vampire who voted against this referendum. The important part here is that the vampire is unique, so you're unlikely to stuff your deck with them (unless you have some freaky Khazar's Diary plan, or something). You could add a pool cost, perhaps, or a "This vampire cannot act this turn" or similar. Cloture Motion Action Modifier Requires a title worth 2 or more votes. Captivation. Only usable after a successful referendum. Only one Captivation card can be played on an action. Move a blood from each vampire who voted against this referendum to the acting vampire (remove the excess). Referring to clotures and, potentially, stopping your opponents from filibustering, and gaining some prestige as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloture Less outright blood or pool gain than Voter Cap, but potentially more vicious in some circles. You could maybe add a small positive to make it usable even when other voters aren't playing ball - "If no vampires voted against this referendum, gain a pool instead." Who knows? Or you could wander off into clan cards (maybe something for the political Nosferatu without Presence?), or sect-specific cards, or cards for city titles, or whatever. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Thrall of Arika

On Jun 22, 5:35 am, "dog$" <011...@gmail.com> wrote: > <city card idea snipped> > > The point in all of this would be to encourage people to want certain > cities in their control, and to better reflect the amount of power > possessed by controlling certain cities. I would think it could > possibly result in more city title contestment occuring and thus add > more tension in the game and give players something to consider when > choosing which vampires and/or titles they want to have in their deck. > I think it would be really interesting if it worked well enough that > players would want to make city-themed decks, like a Chicago Brujah > deck, or a Tremere Athens deck. Well, we already have: Louvre, Paris, The Type: Master Requires: Toreador Master: unique location. You may tap this card to tap any Toreador. If you control the Prince of Paris, you may tap this card to tap any minion in play. Any minion can steal this location for his or her controller as a (D) action. So I don't think it would be difficult to implement, what with a precedent already. The only problem I see really is that with so many cities, I can't see more than one maybe two cards being made for each, without flooding the set(s) with cards that are for all intents severely restricted. But I do like the idea of making the cities worth something more than just being a generic Prince. On Jun 22, 11:39 am, nyst...@cs.com wrote: > More support cards to make playable the theme of allies. (And yes, I > do understand that a way must be found to do this without overpowering > the Imbued). > > Specifically, I would like to see more cards exploring the "day versus > night" theme of the power of certain allies to operate by daylight, > when vampires are relatively powerless, and the corresponding need for > vampires to recruit daytime blockers. Perhaps also cards that are usable only by a type of ally. Perhaps a cairn card for werewolves, or phases of the moon giving certain bonuses to them. Or cards placed on mages giving them certain abilities (to mimic casting rotes). > I would like to see cards, analogous to anarch tri-discipline cards, > but usuable by older vampires rather than anarchs, and with the focus > being on versatility (access to multiple options from possessing > multiple disciplines). Well, we do have the dual-displine cards, which are more usable by elder vampires who are more likely to have both at superior. But on this theme, I really liked the concept of "and/or" with Keystone Kine, and would certainly welcome such a concept for elders to play, making use of their often unused out-of-clan disciplines. > Perhaps a few advanced versions of underpowered group 1 vampires. Indeed .. I still cry at Democritus' inferior Fortitude. For myself: More clan specific cards, to help promote the uniqueness of each clan. Possibly with cards usable by both the Camarilla clans/Gangrel and their anti-tribu together, like Derange. I like the idea of more clan specific allies as well. More support cards for elder/large capacity vampires, to make them more desirable overall to play. I know this is likely to be unpopular, but I would like a Kuei-jin/ Kindred of the East mini-expanion. Chris, Thrall of Arika

James Coupe

In message <0c877353-44cd-4806...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroup s.com>, Thrall of Arika <christoph...@amec.com> writes: >Perhaps also cards that are usable only by a type of ally. Perhaps a >cairn card for werewolves, or phases of the moon giving certain >bonuses to them. Or cards placed on mages giving them certain >abilities (to mimic casting rotes). You'd want to be careful with these. They can end up being relevant to a vanishingly small number of cards and people. Some cards might be more generally applicable if they're written to benefit a particular ally type in particular, but can be used by some other minions too. [ quoted text not captured ]

Chlorix64

I like to see disciplines being used that act within the nature of that discipline. Example: I love to play Assamites, as do a lot of people. Therefore the designers came up with Loss: Loss Type: Action Cost: 1 blood [qui] (D) Burn an equipment or location on a minion controlled by your predator or prey. [QUI] (D) Bleed at +2 bleed. A wonderful card for the Assamites, but what has it got to do with Quietus? Perhaps a Fame like effect would have been more appropriate. I think there is enough room to act within the boundaries of the nature of certain disciplines. Not everything has to be balanced. H -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutgaming.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/ More information at http://www.talkaboutgaming.com/faq.html

LSJ

Chlorix64 wrote: > Loss > A wonderful card for the Assamites, but what has it got to do with > Quietus? See Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom for the answer.

Malone

> > Perhaps a few advanced versions of underpowered group 1 vampires. > I'd really like to see this sort of thing happen more, but the two > examples that have already done (Tusk and Lazarus) didn't really > improve on them much--yeah, Merged Lazarus isn't horrible (he gets a > manuver, 1R damage, and can pay a blood to press), but that is still a > lot of work to make a mediocre 9 cap into a slightly less mediocre 9 > cap. Advanced Tusk has nice synergy with regular Tusk (look at your > top card, and then get to burn it for +1 stealth if it is obfuscate), > but he is still a 6 cap with one superior and only 4 total points in > disciplines. Yeah, it's weird how lame they are. It must have been deliberate. Some of the group 2 advancements are pretty strong. I would really, really like to see more advancements, especially of oddball group 1 and 2 characters. I'd also like to see advancements to 'fix' the absence of some disciplines from large sets of vampires, like the indy disciplines being completely absent from Sabbat and Sabbat War. Guido Lucciano, Advanced [dom nec obf ser OBT] 6 [merge] cool special here Anton, Advanced [cel obf qui vic ANI AUS] 8 [merge] +1 strength Blaise, Advanced [qui vic ANI CEL OBF] 7 Dodd, Advanced [dom nec pre ser CEL] 6 [merge] Anarch Baron of Amsterdam Cicatriz, Advanced [ani aus chi obf pot] 5 [merge] cool special here Sebastian Marley, Advanced [aus chi obf pot ANI] 7 Once per combat Sebastian may destroy equipment as a ranged strike that costs 1 blood. [merge] When Sebastian merges you may place up to two Master: Discipline cards on him from your hand, library or ash heap. Dancin' Dana, Advanced [cel dem obf qui AUS] 6 Virgil, Advanced [cel qui pre AUS DEM OBF] 8 Damaskenos, Advanced [aus cel dem nec pot DOM] 7 [merge] Prince of Cairo Monique, Advanced [ani aus chi pro FOR] 6 [merge] During your prey's minion phase, Monique may burn a blood to untap Gunther Beast Lord, Advanced [aus chi pro val FOR ANI] 7 Adrianne, Advanced [aus cel pot ser PRE] 6 Jost Werner, Advanced [ani ser AUS PRE] 6 Timothy Crowley, Advanced [ani dom CHI FOR PRE] 8 Prince of Dallas While Timothy is ready any Daughter of Cacaphony may take a +1 stealth action gain an allegiance counter; any Daughter of Cacaphony with an allegiance counter is considered a Camarilla vampire. [merge] Camarilla Daughters of Cacaphony you control get an additional vote in referrendums called by Timothy. Emerson Bridges, Advanced [nec obt pot DOM FOR PRE] 9 Prince of Washington DC Lydia Van Cuelen, Advanced [aus dom obf pre ser tha] 6 [merge] Once per turn Lydia may burn one blood to get +1 stealth on an action requiring Serpentis or Thaumaturgy. Spiridonas, Advanced [nec obt pre pot vic DOM THA] 9 Prince of Athens Katarina, Advanced [aus chi pot pro ANI FOR] 10 Prince of Glasgow If your prey does not control a ready Ravnos, Katarina gets +1 bleed [merge] Katarina may enter combat with an ally or younger vampire as a (D) action. etc., etc. (I bet you stopped reading them a while ago...)

I. M. Bur

> But on this theme, I really liked the concept of "and/or" with > Keystone Kine, and would certainly welcome such a concept for elders > to play, making use of their often unused out-of-clan disciplines. Soul Trap Action Modifier Requires: FOR/SER/THA [FOR] and/or [SER] and/or [THA]: Only usable after a successful D action. If using [FOR], this vampire may burn 1 blood to untap. If using [THA], this vampire may steal 1 blood off any vampire controlled by the target Methuselah. If using [SER], you may take control of an ally controlled by target Methuselah until the end of your minion phase. Comments? [ quoted text not captured ]

sutekh_23

[ quoted text not captured ] most out of clan stuff won't be at Sup, perhaps try a "cannot be used by a vampire less than X" template instead?

Malone

> >but I always thought > >that it would be nice to have an expansion which focused purely on > >equipment - more distinct guns and weapons, weapon enhancements, > >clothing, vehicles, and so on. I guess that probably wouldn't go over > >so well. > > I think this (equipment set) would work well as a fixed set, like the > 10th Anniversary Tins or Blood Shadowed Court. I don't think > something that focused would do well in random boosters. Advancements of G1 & G2 vampires (discussed elsewhere in this thread) would also probably be better in a fixed set, maybe with reprints of some of the G2 folks that have not been printed in the new layout, in order to have a mutually-compatible set instead of a few G1 advancements showing up in a set that otherwise has a G4/G5 crypt. As for equipment, we haven't seen any unique guns yet, or unique vehicles. Nancy's Little Tiny Gun Unique weapon; gun 1 pool, requires Ventrue When successfully equipping with this gun from your hand, you may place it on a Political Ally you control instead of the acting vampire; if you do so, the acting vampire untaps. 2R each strike, only useable once per round. If used for the initial strike of the first round of combat, this is with First Strike. Actions and strikes targeting Nancy's Little Tiny Gun cost an additional pool. Ammo cards cannot be used with this gun. Bonnie & Clyde's Getaway Car Unique vehicle 1 pool The minion with this vehicle gets +1 stealth on non-bleed actions and -1 intercept against undirected actions. Once per combat, this minion may end combat as a strike that costs one pool.

Thrall of Arika

On Jun 23, 11:26 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In message <0c877353-44cd-4806-bada-3f372dba8...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroup > s.com>, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com> writes: > > >Perhaps also cards that are usable only by a type of ally. Perhaps a > >cairn card for werewolves, or phases of the moon giving certain > >bonuses to them. Or cards placed on mages giving them certain > >abilities (to mimic casting rotes). > > You'd want to be careful with these. They can end up being relevant to > a vanishingly small number of cards and people. > > Some cards might be more generally applicable if they're written to > benefit a particular ally type in particular, but can be used by some > other minions too. Fair enough. It was the necromancy wraith cards that got me thinking on it (Breath of Thanatosis, Shroud Mastery), which do have other utility beyond affecting wraiths. But we also have Ghouled, which is only usable on recruited Mortal allies, Abomination only usable on Werewolves. Chances are, if such cards were to ever come about, it'd be part of some ally-centric expansion, with hopefully a few mores allies to fill our libraries with. Chris, Thrall of Arika

James Coupe

In message <bf2cfd33-7bd3-461f...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroup s.com>, Thrall of Arika <christoph...@amec.com> writes: >Fair enough. It was the necromancy wraith cards that got me thinking >on it (Breath of Thanatosis, Shroud Mastery), which do have other >utility beyond affecting wraiths. But we also have Ghouled, which is >only usable on recruited Mortal allies, Abomination only usable on >Werewolves. > >Chances are, if such cards were to ever come about, it'd be part of >some ally-centric expansion, with hopefully a few mores allies to fill >our libraries with. Oh, I have no objections to such cards of themselves, and one or two such cards in big card sets is fine. You just start getting into problems if, for example, you drop a bunch of them into a small-ish set, such that people amass a pile of them and think "Bugger this." In a similar but different way, Praxis Seizures have suffered from the same problem - people had way too many of them, and they could take up a lot of card slots on a sheet. [ quoted text not captured ]

Satrapa

On Jun 22, 8:39 pm, nyst...@cs.com wrote: > More support cards to make playable the theme of allies. (And yes, I > do understand that a way must be found to do this without overpowering > the Imbued). I would like to see new ally expansions for other old WoD factions than hunters. I think that lot of players would be happy with werewolf expansion or mage expansion. Personally I'm waiting for next bloodline expansion and first playable changeling that require kiasyd (I would be more than happy if it would be non-unique ally). I like the idea of supporting countries and regions with lot of vtes players. AFAIK there is no city card for Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia. Except of cards it would be fun to see book with fluff for vampires from vtes (preferred vampires not described in rpg books). Amounts of information similar to this gathered on Charlotte by Night would be great.

jwjbw...@gmail.com

On Jun 25, 6:58 am, Satrapa <Jedrzej.Komorow...@gmail.com> wrote: > I would like to see new ally expansions for other old WoD factions > than hunters. I think that lot of players would be happy with werewolf > expansion or mage expansion. I'm not sure I would be wild about it if it adopts a similar template. Seems to me that perhaps the "crypt" should be reserved for "vampires". But what about a GHOULS expansion? Seems the logical place to start. The game is called "vampire" after all, and ghouls are THE typical vampiric ally. They can often use, to an extent, vampiric disciplines. It is ghouls that vampires most frequently rely upon to extend their influence and operations into the daylit realm. Other monster types tend to be enemies and rivals. But perhaps Ghouls, being generally subservient, and (at least at night) less powerful than vampires, are not considered sexy or powerful enough to excite the imaginations of players and be the focus of an expansion.

Pullen

[ quoted text not captured ] I think the ghouls idea iis nice but wouldn'y need to take up a lot of the slots in a set to be implamented. I would like to see more ghoul allies that requier a disciplin to be recruited and then be able to use them as well, such as: City Hall File Clerk Ghoul Allie requiers PRE 1 life- 0 bleed- 0 Strength Cost 1 pool City Hall File Clerk may play cards that requier pre as a vampire of 1 capacity. The City Hall File Clerk may exchange a politcal action in your ash heap with a card in your hand as a D Action.

The Lasombra

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:10:10 -0700 (PDT), Pullen wrote: >City Hall File Clerk >Ghoul Allie requiers PRE >1 life- 0 bleed- 0 Strength >Cost 1 pool >City Hall File Clerk may play cards that requier pre as a vampire of 1 >capacity. The City Hall File Clerk may exchange a politcal action in >your ash heap with a card in your hand as a D Action. If it's action targets things you control, it will not be a (D) action. http://www.thelasombra.com/random.txt

Salem

[ quoted text not captured ] Ash heaps are not things you (or anyone) control(s). But presumably one's hand is? Otherwise hand-targetting effects wouldn't be D actions when used against other players. Unless there's a clarification/ruling to that effect? Or do hand targetting effects target the methuselah, and thus get their D-ness that way? Same with targetting cards in another methuselah's uncontrolled region... hmm.... -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

Pullen

[ quoted text not captured ] Your correst it would be an undirected action, it was just something I came up with on the fly so... thought on the base idea behind the card would be more usefull.

Pullen

[ quoted text not captured ] Not trying to be an ass, thoght on another pass over my post I might come off that way. Anyhoo, i came up with a few more ghouls. Injoy. Police Detective Ghoul allie requires Auspex Cost 2 pool 2 Life- 1 Strength- 0 Bleed Police Detective may play cards that requier infiorer auspex as a vampire with a capacity of 2 or less. Police Detective gets 1 optional manuver each combat. Police Detective may look at 1 card at random from your preys hand as a D action. Stand Up Comedian Ghoul allie requiers Dementation Cost 2 pool 1 Life- 0 Strength- 0 Bleed Stand Up Comedian may play cards that requier infior Dementation as a vampire with a capacity of 1. Stand Up Comedian may tap a vampire as an D action, vampires with a capacity above 7 and vampires with Dementation can not be the targets of this action.

James Coupe

In message <486371b2$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Salem <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> writes: >Ash heaps are not things you (or anyone) control(s). > >But presumably one's hand is? Right. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/84e4f8342ca161e1?hl=en ***** Correct. A player "controls" her hand, library, uncontrolled region, and crypt (the hidden cards) for purposes of figuring out if an action is directed or not, but not her ash heap. ***** I'm not sure quite what requires there to be a difference between the ash heap and other areas, in terms of (D)-ness, but there is one. [ quoted text not captured ]

sul...@aol.com

On Jun 22, 5:35 am, "dog$" <011...@gmail.com> wrote: > From what I could tell, I don't think most people really like the > smaller expansion sets, such as Sword of Caine, but I always thought > that it would be nice to have an expansion which focused purely on > equipment - more distinct guns and weapons, weapon enhancements, > clothing, vehicles, and so on. I guess that probably wouldn't go over > so well. IMO, TR offers up tons of deck ideas where SoC is narrow and dull, so it really depends upon what is in the small set. > A larger vision I've had for the game since the Jyhad days was for > cities and locations. I always liked the feeling of amassing a pool of > global locations to support your power and always wanted to see more > of them. I also liked the concept of controlling Princes and > Archbishops of cities, which made me feel like I truly had substantial > worldwide influence. Sure. I don't really think in terms of grand plans. I have the mindset more to fill holes, like adding some Laibon group 4s to create some new possibilities. Besides vampires, odd multidiscipline cards (e.g. Ani/ Obt, Ani/Tha, Nec/Vic, Obt/Tha, ...), clan cards for clans that have pretty lame clan options (e.g. !Ventrue), a plethora of bounce cards or just a better version of Lost in Translation, and whatnot, I'd like to see more done with the mechanics of the game in terms of intuitive and easy to explain new mechanics that use untapped design space. Keystone Kine requires a bit of explanation up front, but once you grok it, it's simple enough and opens up all sorts of possibilities. Similarly, cards could be made that require: clan or discipline; clan or age; discipline or age. [Simple] political actions that can be discarded for combat effects, cards that can be played out of ash heaps (obviously removed from game later), requirements like "Can only be played if you currently have zero victory points.", cards that require more than one clan in play like Treaty of Laibach, reasons to play diverse decks like an anti- Specialization with wording something like "Tap during your master phase to discard two cards with different types. [Types include: action, action modifier, ...]", vampires who are more special ability based than discipline based like a 7 cap with two disciplines and two strong specials, and other expansion based on ideas already present in the game or going into new ways to use existing mechanics. What I don't want to see, however, is a bunch of new mechanics that require further explanation. Admittedly, the game is so complex now that it's already painful to explain how everything works, but mechanics bloat helps to drive away old players. As for a more thematic basis for new sets, regional seems interesting, though I'm not sure how much existing material there is to mine. How many South American vampires, for instance, are already in the game? Of course, as the only bit of oWoD going, V:TES can (and should) be making stuff up about the world. The idea of tying in real world features to the game world is an idea that could get the existing player base excited and ties into the idea of locations/regions mattering. Let's say Tzimisce are popular in Hungary, so there's a Tzimisce archbishop of Budapest and/or a Tzimisce requiring location of some famous spot in Hungary. To an extent, all of this is already possible with create-your-own- storylines, but there doesn't seem to be a lot done with those where there is some sense of what's going on in the real world in terms of where the game is popular, what might be played to an unusually high or low extent in different areas (whether just something like which sects get more or less play), and whatnot.

Salem

James Coupe wrote: > In message <486371b2$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Salem > <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> writes: >>Ash heaps are not things you (or anyone) control(s). >> >>But presumably one's hand is? > > Right. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/84e4f8342ca161e1?hl=en > ***** > Correct. A player "controls" her hand, library, uncontrolled region, and > crypt (the hidden cards) for purposes of figuring out if an action is > directed or not, but not her ash heap. > ***** > > I'm not sure quite what requires there to be a difference between the > ash heap and other areas, in terms of (D)-ness, but there is one. personally, i'd like to see the ash-heap rolled into that "controlled" list, for consistency and intuitive ease. also, as it stands now, if i was playing a deck that used my own ashheap to do stuff, some goof-ball across table could start messing with my ashheap, and there'd be nothing i could do about it as it's undirected. Can we add the ashheap is "controlled" to some wishlist somewhere, LSJ? :) also, maybe get that list into the rulebook in the (D) action section....i searched through the rulebook a bunch last night trying to find something. [ quoted text not captured ]

nys...@cs.com

On Jun 25, 9:10 pm, Pullen <mattp3...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I think the ghouls idea iis nice but wouldn'y need to take up > a lot of the slots in a set to be implamented. I don't see why. Ghouls are already part of the game, though they never have had an expansion, or even an extraordinary number of slots, devoted to them. Seems to me that they could take up as many slots, or as few, as the designer pleased. >I would like to see more ghoul > allies that requier a disciplin to be recruited and then be > able to > use them as well, [...] Well, one COULD print 28 different ghouls, each requiring a different discipline at superior, and each able to use that discipline at inferior. But it seems to me that there might also be far less card- slot-intensive ways of implementing similar themes. See, for example, "Third Tradition: Projeny", which illustrates only one of many possible design options.

xcver

I'm not too sold on the ally set idea. There are already some very strong ally decks (hordes, war ghoul, nephandus spring to mind). More powerful allies could push those decks even more. You'll have to be very careful in the ally design especially with one's any vamp can play.

jwjbw...@gmail.com

On Jun 27, 7:41 am, xcver <xc...@xcver.com> wrote: > I'm not too sold on the ally set idea. There are already some very > strong ally decks (hordes, war ghoul, nephandus spring to mind). Those are all combat allies, valued for their capacity to go toe-to- toe with vampires in the night-time. That was not the aspect of allies that I felt needed enhancing. Rather, I felt the strategic usefulness of otherwise underpowered allies should lie in their ability to act, and block, by daylight. Since vampires are virtually powerless at such time, this OUGHT to be of immense strategic concern to them, both offensively and defensively. > More > powerful allies could push those decks even more. I don't want "more powerful allies", in the sense you seem to have in mind. I do not want to wallpaper the old cards, or further wallpaper those that are already rarely played. > You'll have to be > very careful in the ally design especially with one's any vamp can > play. Balance is a concern with any card you design. One must always be very careful. Thankfully, card design seems to be in capable hands, and I am merely indicating my wish-list of themes I'd like explored.

Salem

[ quoted text not captured ] and i think the banning of memories of mortality could be a boon in that regard, in that it will open up opportunities to create more diverse and interesting allies that are easier to balance than they might otherwise be if memories was still allowed. [ quoted text not captured ]