In an ealier post, LSJ stated that the Elysium could not be used to
avoid dmg from Weather Control because Weather Control is played
at the "beginning of combat", not "before range." However, shouldn't
the controller of the Elysium have the *option* to use the Elyium's
effect earlier in the round, and so avoid dmg (that, is, use the Elysium
power before the opposing vampire *plays* the Weather Control card)?
Would this only work if the Elysium controller also controlled the
acting minion?
For reference:
Elysium-The Arboretum Master
UNIQUE LOCATION. Tap to end a combat. Only usable before range is
determined. Any vampire can burn this card by calling a vote as a
political action, which would be at +1 Stealth.
Weather Control Combat Thaumaturgy
Normal: Only usable at beginning of combat. Both combatants and their
retainers suffer 1 damage before range is determined each round,
including the first. This damage cannot be prevented.
Superior: As above, but the amount of damage dealt increases by one each
round.
Thanks in advance,
--
Robert Granat
Lackey of the Schnitzel Industry
rag...@ugcs.caltech.edu wrote:
>
> In an ealier post, LSJ stated that the Elysium could not be used to
> avoid dmg from Weather Control because Weather Control is played
> at the "beginning of combat", not "before range." However, shouldn't
> the controller of the Elysium have the *option* to use the Elyium's
> effect earlier in the round, and so avoid dmg (that, is, use the Elysium
> power before the opposing vampire *plays* the Weather Control card)?
The earlier post:
LSJ wrote:
> Weather Control gets first opportunity to be played ("beginning
> of combat" superceding "before range").
This means that the timing window for "begnning of combat" effects is
before the timing window for "before range" effects.
So WC gets to be played first.
Just like "as combat is entered" is before "beginning of combat",
so Thought's Betrayed gets to be played before Weather Control.
> Would this only work if the Elysium controller also controlled the
> acting minion?
If WC was a "play before range" effect, yes.
But, it is not. It gets to be played before the "before range" effects.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
LSJ wrote:
>
> rag...@ugcs.caltech.edu wrote:
> >
> > In an ealier post, LSJ stated that the Elysium could not be used to
> > avoid dmg from Weather Control because Weather Control is played
> > at the "beginning of combat", not "before range." However, shouldn't
> > the controller of the Elysium have the *option* to use the Elyium's
> > effect earlier in the round, and so avoid dmg (that, is, use the Elysium
> > power before the opposing vampire *plays* the Weather Control card)?
>
> The earlier post:
> LSJ wrote:
> > Weather Control gets first opportunity to be played ("beginning
> > of combat" superceding "before range").
>
> This means that the timing window for "begnning of combat" effects is
> before the timing window for "before range" effects.
>
> So WC gets to be played first.
>
> Just like "as combat is entered" is before "beginning of combat",
> so Thought's Betrayed gets to be played before Weather Control.
Recently we switched to announcing "pre-range" as a combat phase. A
friend and I were trying to figure out how many phases of combat there
were in one round of combat. Obviously we missed a few. So can we make
the unexpergated list of combat phases?
1. Before Combat begins. (i.e. obedience)
2. As combat is entered (Thoughts betrayed)
3. Beginning of Combat (Weather Control)
4. Before Range is Determined (Elysium, Illusions of Kindred, Torn
Signpost)
5. Range Determination
6. First Strike
7. Strike
8. Strike Resolution
9. Damage Prevention
10. Additional Strike #1
11. Strike Resolution
12. Damage Prevention
13. Additional Strike #2
14. Strike Resolution
15. Damage Prevention
16. Additional Additional Strikes
17. Strike Resolution
18. Damage Prevention
19. Presses (if yes goto line 4)
Seems to have gotten out-of-hand, doesn't it? Kinda makes me want to
start using Thoughts Betrayed.
But I know I gotta be missing some other phases.
daniel frey wrote:
> Recently we switched to announcing "pre-range" as a combat phase. A
Yep. We've been saying "I have nothing to play before range" for
quite some time now. If any of these other timing stages start
getting used frequently, we may have to declare more of them.
> friend and I were trying to figure out how many phases of combat there
> were in one round of combat. Obviously we missed a few. So can we make
> the unexpergated list of combat phases?
>
> 1. Before Combat begins. (i.e. obedience)
> 2. As combat is entered (Thoughts betrayed)
> 3. Beginning of Combat (Weather Control)
> 4. Before Range is Determined (Elysium, Illusions of Kindred, Torn
> Signpost)
> 5. Range Determination
5b. Post-Range (Immortal Grapple, Blood to Water)
> 6. First Strike
> 7. Strike
6+7 -> 6. Strike declaration #1
> 8. Strike Resolution
> 9. Damage Prevention
These operate slightly differently than two distinct steps,
but this is good enough for this list.
9. Heal Damage/Prevent Destruction (preventing damage is
done only in step 8). If unreadied (burned/torpored), go
to 21.
9a. Post-strike (Taste of Vitae)
> 10. Additional Strike #1
> 11. Strike Resolution
> 12. Damage Prevention
> 13. Additional Strike #2
> 14. Strike Resolution
> 15. Damage Prevention
> 16. Additional Additional Strikes
> 17. Strike Resolution
> 18. Damage Prevention
10-18. Better stated as:
10. Repeat steps 6-9a for each additional strike.
> 19. Presses (if yes goto line 4)
19. Press-step (Pulled Fangs)
20. Presses (if continue goto 4)
21. Combat ends (Amaranth, sometimes Pulled Fangs)
22. Post-combat (superior Psyche, Hidden Lurker, Fast Reaction)
> Seems to have gotten out-of-hand, doesn't it? Kinda makes me want to
> start using Thoughts Betrayed.
> But I know I gotta be missing some other phases.
--
[ quoted text not captured ]