Nifty card combos

Intersted in seeing what other unusual and perhaps hidden little card combos people may have. Not so much the common(ie: scorpion sting/wolfs claws) or the powermonger(RTI/redeem/soul gem) combos, but just nifty little ones that might not be used as often. ie: =Increased Strength and Fractured Armament Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage! =Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)! Anyone else?? T

> >=Increased Strength and Fractured Armament > >Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage! Just as a reminder, don't forget that Increased Strength only improves Fractured Armament as superior since the inferior doesn't do any damage. >=Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel > >do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)! The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not "strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel. Halcyan 2

In message <3ae21209.162287564@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >=Increased Strength and Fractured Armament > >Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage! Requires equipment on the opposing minion. Touch-and-go at best. It also needs superior Potence. At inferior, Fractured Armanent does not inflict any damage so Increased Strength cannot modify it. >=Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel > >do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)! Skin of Steel will prevent the opposing minion's strike. It will not prevent the damage bomb does. "Damage from a strike" does not include side-effect damage from a strike you perform, only the damage the other minion inflicts upon you as a strike. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1F What's the meaning when you speak with so much feeling? B457CA213D7E6 Is it over when you're sober? Is it junk? 68C3695D623D5D

> combos people may have. Not so much the common(ie: scorpion > sting/wolfs claws) or the powermonger(RTI/redeem/soul gem) combos, but > just nifty little ones that might not be used as often. Aside from the comments Halcyan2 and Mr. C{r}oupe :p made, I have this to add: RTI/redeem/soul gem doesn't work anymore. RTI removes the vamp from the game and as such makes it so that you cannot Redeem the vamp as it wasn't burned. By that same token, since the vamp was in fact not burned, Soul Gem will not kick in. Sorrow --- "I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection." - Narrator

On 21 Apr 2001 23:18:25 GMT, halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: >> >>=Increased Strength and Fractured Armament >> >>Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage! > >Just as a reminder, don't forget that Increased Strength only improves >Fractured Armament as superior since the inferior doesn't do any damage. > Good call yes. >>=Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel >> >>do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)! > >The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not >"strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel. > Actually burning the bomb is a strike, so no. But id be happy to take a strike in addition to pulling the trigger sure. T

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:20:44 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > >Requires equipment on the opposing minion. Touch-and-go at best. > Yes but thats the point. Hardly common or game breaker combos, but FUN ones to play. T

[ quoted text not captured ] True. That was the most degenerative combo of past days I could remember. And thus the erratta as stated. T

In article <3ae534e6.236760081@news>, <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not >>"strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel. >Actually burning the bomb is a strike, so no. But id be happy to take >a strike in addition to pulling the trigger sure. Damage from the Bomb to the opposing minion is a strike, yes, and the opposing minion can Skin of Steel it. Bomb damage to the Bombing minion is environmental, and not skin of steelable. Ditto for Burst of Sunlight and Body of Sun. gomi -- Individually, I love you all with affection unspeakable; but, collectively, I look upon you with a disgust that amounts to absolute detestation. - Gilbert and Sullivan, 'Pirates of Penzance'

12 Spiridonas+Fortitude skill card+Soul gem+bleed+daring the dawn++7 bleed need I say more? oh? so my prey has a deflection? Well... eh... screw you grandprey!!!

> 12 Spiridonas+Fortitude skill card+Soul gem+bleed+daring the dawn++7 bleed > need I say more? > oh? so my prey has a deflection? Well... eh... screw you grandprey!!! That's why he uses Force of Will instead, and the action to tap is Cull the Herd, to see where "da bomb" is going. =) -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta "You can't make a fact out of an opinion by raising your voice."

> > Intersted in seeing what other unusual and perhaps hidden little card > combos people may have. Not so much the common(ie: scorpion > sting/wolfs claws) or the powermonger(RTI/redeem/soul gem) combos, but > just nifty little ones that might not be used as often. Well, we were sure all surprised when Mike Perlman was playing !Malks and used Fake Out and Personal Scourge to neuter a .44's strike. =) But, Matteus, the Flesh Sculptor, can Dodge, Blur, Fleshcraft, and then Majesty and untap, ready to block the *next* guy, so he can tie tin cans to HIS little butt, and make his prey particularly unstealthy. Another Perlman one: Julius gets a Soul Gem. If he gets torped, he gets burned, it's like an Effective Management. Yet another Perlman one: Weenies and Ancient Influence. Some 2 cap calls in on turn 2, doing 3 to himself, but 5 to his hapless prey (if they haven't gotten a vampire out.) I know, it sounds like a prayer combo, but Mike's gotten it off *way* too many times. =) [ quoted text not captured ]

> That's why he uses Force of Will instead, and the action to tap is Cull > the Herd, to see where "da bomb" is going. =) > > "You can't make a fact out of an opinion by raising your voice." > Better use a Revelations at inferior first. You could remove that Deflection from your prey's hand. Thought it reduces the bleed to +6. This weekend here in Palma we talked about another nasty combo: Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim. Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo. Tom Mad&Co

>> That's why he uses Force of Will instead, and the action to tap is > Cull >> the Herd, to see where "da bomb" is going. =) > > Better use a Revelations at inferior first. You could remove that Deflection > from your prey's hand. > Thought it reduces the bleed to +6. Yeah, but that takes an Auspex skill card (or a crypt of Spiridonas and backup), since Spiridonas has [DOM pot pre THA], Tremere or not. No Auspex. =( > This weekend here in Palma we talked about another nasty combo: > > Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's > Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a > Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and > thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim. > > Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo. Now THAT'S a combo! But, how about a Bomb instead, and using it to destroy your own Barrens? He (say, Etrius) could even use Forgotten Labyrinth to make sure he gets away with it. Heck, you could nuke a Hunting Ground or something if it's out there. Two for one sale! Use Meshenka to destroy his own Hungry Coyote! Funny that Beast is the most "Mind Rape Nuke" immune guy. I mean, you can rush with him, but you can't Rave/Bauble/Force of Will, etc. It's hard to cardlessly burn yourself. -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta "You can't make a fact out of an opinion by raising your voice."

I guess I'm missing something on this one, does this somehow burn the victim? What card text or ruling for Bauble makes that happen? I realize that the effect of the Bauble is to "transform the vampire into a weapon to be used by another vampire", but that is not precisely what happens in V:TES terms. Has there been a ruling that if the Baubled weapon is no longer in play that the Bauble card (and hence the restrictions against acting and blocking) cannot be burned? Bauble Type: Action Discipline: Vicissitude Blood Cost: 2 Card Text: This is a +1 stealth action. Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library and put a non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion you control.Do not pay the cost to equip. The vampire with this card cannot attempt actions, block or vote. You may burn this card and the chosen equipment card during your untap phase or when the vampire with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled region. SUP: As above, but you may burn this card and the chosen equipment at any time. Thanks Doug In article <9c0ju1$375$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net>, Tom Mad&Co says... [ quoted text not captured ]

Doug wrote: > > I guess I'm missing something on this one, does this somehow burn the victim? > What card text or ruling for Bauble makes that happen? I realize that the > effect of the Bauble is to "transform the vampire into a weapon to be used by > another vampire", but that is not precisely what happens in V:TES terms. Correct. > Has there been a ruling that if the Baubled weapon is no longer in play that the > Bauble card (and hence the restrictions against acting and blocking) cannot be > burned? No. You can burn the Bauble card (thus "releasing" the Baubling vampire) even if the chosen equipment is no longer in play. You don't have to burn the equipment "to" burn the Bauble card - you simply burn them both when you burn the Bauble card. > > Bauble > Type: Action > Discipline: Vicissitude > Blood Cost: 2 > > Card Text: > > This is a +1 stealth action. > > Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library and put a > non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion you control.Do not pay > the cost to equip. The vampire with this card cannot attempt actions, block or > vote. You may burn this card and the chosen equipment card during your untap > phase or when the vampire with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled > region. > > SUP: As above, but you may burn this card and the chosen equipment at any time. > > Thanks > Doug > > In article <9c0ju1$375$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net>, Tom Mad&Co says... > > > >This weekend here in Palma we talked about another nasty combo: > > > >Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's > >Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a > >Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and > >thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim. > > > >Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo. > > > >Tom Mad&Co > > > > > > > > -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> This weekend here in Palma we talked about another nasty combo: > > Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's > Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a > Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and > thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim. > > Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo. Now THAT'S a combo! But, how about a Bomb instead, and using it to destroy your own Barrens? He (say, Etrius) could even use Forgotten Labyrinth to make sure he gets away with it. Heck, you could nuke a Hunting Ground or something if it's out there. Two for one sale! Use Meshenka to destroy his own Hungry Coyote If you like that, how about what happened last saturday in one of our regular games. With all the sabbat vampires floating around lately, I decided to enhance my Lasombra Mind Rape deck with a couple of Sunrise Services. Boy was it sweet. I was able to Rape Sela's mind in turn 3. Got her turn 4, had her perform the Sunrise Service, and Graverobbed the her into my controlled region. And with her inferior obtenebration and the +1 bleed that basically got me the first VP with her final unblockeable action. Quite funny and *only* a 3 card combo... Also, and this was NOT funny, what about a Malk/Giovanni 70 cards Masters/Political deck, with Charlotta G. that rotated 5 cards infinately. And no combat decks at the table!! With the parthenon and rumours out his 4th turn was like this...ToGP, Minion tap, Golconda on my newly awakened Moncada....this was repeated on turn 5 when I got out Gratiano....NOT funny, but quite good. Tim Eijpe

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 00:21:16 -0400, Pat Ricochet <sp...@socrates.gatech.edu> wrote: > Yet another Perlman one: Weenies and Ancient Influence. Some 2 cap >calls in on turn 2, doing 3 to himself, but 5 to his hapless prey (if they >haven't gotten a vampire out.) I know, it sounds like a prayer combo, but >Mike's gotten it off *way* too many times. =) > Inventive! I rather like that one. T

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 23:17:53 +0000 (UTC), go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >In article <3ae534e6.236760081@news>, <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>>The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not >>>"strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel. > >>Actually burning the bomb is a strike, so no. But id be happy to take >>a strike in addition to pulling the trigger sure. > >Damage from the Bomb to the opposing minion is a strike, yes, and the >opposing minion can Skin of Steel it. Bomb damage to the Bombing minion >is environmental, and not skin of steelable. Ditto for Burst of Sunlight >and Body of Sun. > >gomi > LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any posted rulings already so I can show other players pls? A strike is a strike is a strike by any other name in my book, but.....;) T

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:44:42 GMT, Talo...@hotmail.com wrote: >LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any >posted rulings already so I can show other players pls? from http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulings.html, under the Damage (Combat) section near the very top, we find: "Damage from a strike" only includes damage done to the opposing target. Side effect damage is not counted as "damage from a strike". Therefore, self-inflicted damage from Zip Gun, Grenade, Burst of Sunlight, Body of Sun, etc. is side effect damage and is not preventable by "prevent damage from a strike" effects like Skin of Steel, Leather Jacket, etc. [LSJ 19970108] Please TRY to do some basic research? Sheesh. And don't say "Bomb's not listed!", because that's why the 'etc.' is there. -- Derek [generic .signature file]

In message <3ae9a1e8.330216202@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any >posted rulings already so I can show other players pls? "Damage from a strike" only includes damage done to the opposing target. Side effect damage is not counted as "damage from a strike". Therefore, self-inflicted damage from Zip Gun, Grenade, Burst of Sunlight, Body of Sun, etc. is side effect damage and is not preventable by "prevent damage from a strike" effects like Skin of Steel, Leather Jacket, etc. [LSJ 19970108] [1] [2] [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] In fact, you can lay a skill card on the 2-cap the previous Master phase, which further cuts your losses to only 2 pool. A 2-for-5 tradeoff starts to look kind of attractive. Plus you put a small monkeywrench in some bloat decks, who will use Ancient Influence for bloat supplementation. [ quoted text not captured ]

Pat Ricochet <sp...@socrates.gatech.edu> wrote: > Yet another Perlman one: Weenies and Ancient Influence. Some 2 cap >calls in on turn 2, doing 3 to himself, but 5 to his hapless prey (if they >haven't gotten a vampire out.) I know, it sounds like a prayer combo, but >Mike's gotten it off *way* too many times. =) Heh. _Thats_ fun. I pulled that last Monday with Wantenda, and a Bribes in hand (only cost me one pool net). I'd fall on that play every time :-) Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver

Talo...@hotmail.com wrote: > go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: > >Damage from the Bomb to the opposing minion is a strike, yes, and the > >opposing minion can Skin of Steel it. Bomb damage to the Bombing minion > >is environmental, and not skin of steelable. Ditto for Burst of Sunlight > >and Body of Sun. > > LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any > posted rulings already so I can show other players pls? Skin of Steel prevents all damage from the opponent's strike. It cannot prevent self-inflicted damage or other environmental damage. See the online rulings on "Damage from a strike", or show this message itself to other players. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:11:26 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >In message <3ae9a1e8.330216202@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >>LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any >>posted rulings already so I can show other players pls? > >"Damage from a strike" only includes damage done to the opposing target. >Side effect damage is not counted as "damage from a strike". Therefore, >self-inflicted damage from Zip Gun, Grenade, Burst of Sunlight, Body of >Sun, etc. is side effect damage and is not preventable by "prevent >damage from a strike" effects like Skin of Steel, Leather Jacket, etc. >[LSJ 19970108] [1] [2] > So opposing fort decks, the non-bomber can use SoS but the bomber can't. Ridiculous. T

On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:35:31 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >Skin of Steel prevents all damage from the opponent's strike. It cannot >prevent self-inflicted damage or other environmental damage. See the >online rulings on "Damage from a strike", or show this message itself >to other players. > SoS prevents damage from 'a strike' at inferior. I wasnt thinking of superior. T

[ quoted text not captured ] And, as indicated in the online rulings (as quoted by others), damage from 'a strike' means damage from the opposing minion's strike. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Card text for Skin of Steel: "Prevent all damage from a strike. (S) As above, and prevent all damage from opponent's strikes for the remainder of this round." The inferior has been ruled, as we quoted at you, to be only usable against an opponent's strikes, and not against your own self-inflicted/environmental damage. More simply put, you can't strike yourself in any way, shape, or form. There isn't anything in the game to permit it. You can play cards which produce effects that cause DAMAGE to yourself, but you can't strike yourself. Therefore Skin of Steel, which only prevents strikes, cannot prevent the environmental damage effects from things like Bomb, Grenade, Body of Sun, etc. Even MORE simply put, ... - Skin of Steel prevents strikes. - Bomb can be "... use as a strike in combat to do 5R, but bearer suffers 5 damage as well." That is ORIGINAL JYHAD CARD TEXT, by the way. - You can't strike yourself, but you're taking damage from the Bomb. - Ergo, the damage from your own Bomb is not a strike. (note that card text supports this) - Ergo, you can't prevent your own Bomb with Skin of Steel. It's worth noting that original Jyhad card text on Grenade reads: "3R. Burn after use. If used at close range, bearer suffers 1 damage." Again, Grenade does not produce a strike effect, so Skin of Steel could NEVER have been used. White Phosphorous Grenade reads: "2R aggravated damage each strike. If White Phosphorus Grenade is used at close range, the minion with this equipment takes 1 aggravated damage. Burn after use." Again, card text does not produce a strike effect to yourself. Even the lowly Zip Gun reads: "1R each strike with an optional maneuver each combat. Does 1 damage to bearer when used, but only one for each combat." So even WITHOUT a ruling, you wouldn't be able to Skin of Steel your own Bomb. Sorry. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3ae5ceb4.73111304@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >So opposing fort decks, the non-bomber can use SoS but the bomber >can't. Certainly. This helps to stop potentially broken combos from becoming too powerful, amongst other things. By making it an expensive combo for the attacker, the power:cost ratio is maintained at a 'sensible' level. Since the attacker either takes the strike (a cost) or they have to assemble a number of other cards together to prevent it. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:23:09 -0400, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >So even WITHOUT a ruling, you wouldn't be able to Skin of Steel your >own Bomb. Sorry. > No. The ruling was necesary. The cards are quite obvious in their play (strike/prevent damage from a strike). The other grenade cards may have helped create the ruling, but do not in themselves apply to other cards. T

On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:47:03 GMT, Talo...@hotmail.com wrote: >On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:23:09 -0400, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> >wrote: > >>So even WITHOUT a ruling, you wouldn't be able to Skin of Steel your >>own Bomb. Sorry. > >No. Oh, yes. Again, I refer to original Jyhad card text, which I will now quote directly from the card in front of me. "Weapon. Bearer may take a (D) action to burn a location. Alternatively, use as a strike in combat to do 5R, but bearer suffers 5 damage as well. Burn after either use." Keep this text in mind. >The ruling was necesary. The cards are quite obvious in their play >(strike/prevent damage from a strike). Yes, the card IS quite obvious in its play. You equip with a Bomb. You enter combat with a minion. You strike with the Bomb for 5R damage to the opposing minion. Since you used it as a strike, there are 5 points of environmental damage that you must 'suffer'. I do not see anything that says the 5 points of damage you take is from a strike, UNLIKE, say, Burst of Sunlight, which reads "Strike: 1R, aggravated, to all vampires in combat. (S) Strike: 2R, aggravated, to all vampires in combat." The ruling was VERY necessary for Burst of Sunlight. But for Bomb? No, not even close. A simple reading of card text would have sufficed. I made the same mistake long ago, PRIOR to the ruling we quoted at you; our group sat down, had a look at Bomb's and Grenade's text, and agreed "Nope, these don't say 'from a strike'. Can't use Skin of Steel." So yes, the card is definitely quite obvious once you actually READ it -- something I had originally failed to do. [ quoted text not captured ]

What about a crypt consisting of only Rufina Soledad, which would work like this... Bring out Rufina (well, obviously), raise her capacity by 1 and equip her with the Soul Gem. Get her down to 1 blood then do Force of Will, getting out another Rufina when the first one is burned. This one calls Praxis Seizure: {Berlin, Geneva, Cairo} and plays Cryptic Rider. Result: Capacity 3 with 1 blood. Now Force of Will again. Repeat until your Infinite Improbability Drive stops or you get beaten to death by other players. Duncan Campbell (falls through bar)

"Duncan Campbell" <u11...@abdn.ac.uk> wrote in message news:3AE80D37...@abdn.ac.uk... [ quoted text not captured ] I beat that combo by continual EMP's which were burning all of the Rufina's that came out... Dark Howler

In message <bInJ6.4098$76.1...@news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au>, Dark Howler <darkh...@bastardsquad.org> writes >I beat that combo by continual EMP's which were burning all of the Rufina's >that came out... But they keep doing the same thing again and again and again, on the same turn, *if* the combo pulls off. You don't get a chance to rush. [ quoted text not captured ]