Strained Vitae Supply Master
If this card is in play, vampires do not get stealth when hunting. Any
Methuselah may use a master phase action to put 1 pool on this card. If
the number of counters on this card equals the number of Methuselahs in
the game, burn this card.
I assume that the 1 pool that a Methuselah may place on this card comes
from her own pool, and not from the blood bank.
-----
Thoughts Betrayed Combat Dominate 2 blood
N: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion takes an
additional 1 damage in the first round of combat during strike
resolution.
S: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion cannot use
any cards until after combat.
How can you use a combat card before combat begins?
Shouldn't this be: before range is determined on the first round?
-----
Tereza Rostas Ravnos
C: 8 D: ani, aus, CHI, FOR, pot
Non-Camarilla. Tereza may burn 2 blood to attempt to get the Edge from
another Methuselah as a (D) action.
Is the 2 blood burned even if the action is blocked? (As opposed to the
rule that says no cost is paid if an action is blocked). It does say
the *attempt* costs two blood.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>Strained Vitae Supply Master
> If this card is in play, vampires do not get stealth when hunting. Any
> Methuselah may use a master phase action to put 1 pool on this card. If
> the number of counters on this card equals the number of Methuselahs in
> the game, burn this card.
>
>I assume that the 1 pool that a Methuselah may place on this card comes
>from her own pool, and not from the blood bank.
Yes.
>Thoughts Betrayed Combat Dominate 2 blood
> N: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion takes an
> additional 1 damage in the first round of combat during strike
> resolution.
> S: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion cannot use
> any cards until after combat.
>
>How can you use a combat card before combat begins?
Simple: it breaks the rules.
>Shouldn't this be: before range is determined on the first round?
No.
>Tereza Rostas Ravnos
> C: 8 D: ani, aus, CHI, FOR, pot
> Non-Camarilla. Tereza may burn 2 blood to attempt to get the Edge from
> another Methuselah as a (D) action.
>
>Is the 2 blood burned even if the action is blocked? (As opposed to the
>rule that says no cost is paid if an action is blocked). It does say
>the *attempt* costs two blood.
It does say "attempt", yes, which implies that she burns the blood even
if the action is blocked. I'll find out whether that's an error or not.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:>>Thoughts Betrayed Combat Dominate 2 blood
>> N: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion takes an
>> additional 1 damage in the first round of combat during strike
>> resolution.
>> S: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion cannot use
>> any cards until after combat.
>>
>>How can you use a combat card before combat begins?>Simple: it breaks the rules.>>Shouldn't this be: before range is determined on the first round?>No.
So what is the difference between playing before range on the first round
(cf. Trap) and playing it (a combat card) outside of combat?
And was this difference intentional? (why?) Or simply a result of the
same design process that gave us the Madness Network and (D) symbols?
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <4aghm1$6...@news.nevada.edu>, wa...@nevada.edu (BRADLEY WARD) wrote:
> : >Tereza Rostas Ravnos> : > C: 8 D: ani, aus, CHI, FOR, pot
> : > Non-Camarilla. Tereza may burn 2 blood to attempt to get the Edge from
> : > another Methuselah as a (D) action.
> : >
> : >Is the 2 blood burned even if the action is blocked? (As opposed to the
> : >rule that says no cost is paid if an action is blocked). It does say
> : >the *attempt* costs two blood.
>
> : It does say "attempt", yes, which implies that she burns the blood even
> : if the action is blocked. I'll find out whether that's an error or not.
>> Just a few cents here but isn't paying two pool just to get the
> edge very freakin stupid. why not just bleed someone. gees I hate that
> vampire.
You're not paying two pool. You're paying 2 blood off the vampire, which
is another ballgame.
J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com>
PGP keys by request
Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
In article <4ahmng$7...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L.
Scott Johnson) wrote:
> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
> >L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
> >>Thoughts Betrayed Combat Dominate 2 blood
> >> N: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion takes an
> >> additional 1 damage in the first round of combat during strike
> >> resolution.
> >> S: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion cannot use
> >> any cards until after combat.
> >>
> >>How can you use a combat card before combat begins?
>
> >Simple: it breaks the rules.
>
> >>Shouldn't this be: before range is determined on the first round?
>
> >No.
>
> So what is the difference between playing before range on the first round
> (cf. Trap) and playing it (a combat card) outside of combat?
>
> And was this difference intentional? (why?) Or simply a result of the
> same design process that gave us the Madness Network and (D) symbols?
Here's one difference I thought of: it allows both players to play
Thoughts Betrayed. If TB were played during combat, the acting player
always gets to play TB first, leaving the reacting player sitting there
saying "duhhhhhh, um, what to do, what to do." Having it be played
*before* combat, the reacting player can play his own TB, because TB says
you cannot play cards during combat (well, sort of).
I think that's why it's worded that way. Or does TB played by the acting
player prohibit the reacting player from playing his/her own TB? Tom?
Judy
>: >Tereza Rostas Ravnos
>: > C: 8 D: ani, aus, CHI, FOR, pot
>: > Non-Camarilla. Tereza may burn 2 blood to attempt to get the Edge from
>: > another Methuselah as a (D) action.>: It does say "attempt", yes, which implies that she burns the blood even>: if the action is blocked. I'll find out whether that's an error or not.> Just a few cents here but isn't paying two pool just to get the
>edge very freakin stupid. why not just bleed someone. gees I hate that
>vampire.
Considering that Jazz can steal the Edge if it is uncontrolled at +1 stealth
and is a cap 5 vampire and that most other vampires have 1-2 votes and the
chance of a cool power, the card does suck and not even all 3 clan disciplines
are superior. I'd expect a vampire like this to be 6 cap vamire not an 8, I
mean Anvil has 1 vote and the same number of disciplines. The problem is if
you want to play an all Ravnos crypt you can hardly afford to dump vamps left
and right. Good thing Gangrel are a compatible clan for Ravnos.
: >Tereza Rostas Ravnos
: > C: 8 D: ani, aus, CHI, FOR, pot
: > Non-Camarilla. Tereza may burn 2 blood to attempt to get the Edge from
: > another Methuselah as a (D) action.
: >: >Is the 2 blood burned even if the action is blocked? (As opposed to the
: >rule that says no cost is paid if an action is blocked). It does say
: >the *attempt* costs two blood.: It does say "attempt", yes, which implies that she burns the blood even: if the action is blocked. I'll find out whether that's an error or not.
Just a few cents here but isn't paying two pool just to get the
edge very freakin stupid. why not just bleed someone. gees I hate that
vampire.
--
|||||||
BRAD /\wa...@pioneer.nevada.edu |^_.^ _^|. o O (all I did was smoke)
/vvvvvvvvvvvv \-----------------------C\[@]-[@]/)-------, ____
`^^^^^^^^^^^^ /========================| : U .:|=======" / /\
WARD \/ wa...@cs.unlv.edu `.(===):' ( ==/=*~)
\---/ \/____/
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:
: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
: >L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
: >>Thoughts Betrayed Combat Dominate 2 blood
: >> N: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion takes an
: >> additional 1 damage in the first round of combat during strike
: >> resolution.
: >> S: Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion cannot use
: >> any cards until after combat.
: >>
: >>How can you use a combat card before combat begins?: >Simple: it breaks the rules.: >>Shouldn't this be: before range is determined on the first round?: >No.: So what is the difference between playing before range on the first round
: (cf. Trap) and playing it (a combat card) outside of combat?
Easy [no offense]. Allowing the player of TB to play it outside of
combat prevents the opposing minion from playing ANY cards at all, even
if it is the acting minion and would normally get to play cards first
before range was chosen on the first round. Of course, the acting minion
would get to play cards out of combat first, I assume...
: And was this difference intentional? (why?) Or simply a result of the: same design process that gave us the Madness Network and (D) symbols?
Whoa... What's wrong with Madness Network? It makes a lot of sense...
: --: L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
: http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
: Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "What is a man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, |
| man would die from a great loneliness of spirit." |
| "Confuse, annoy, and dee-STROY!!" Call me "Nicole" and I |
| npu...@tiger.lsu.edu -- Jet...@aol.com will have to kill you. |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>So what is the difference between playing before range on the first round
>(cf. Trap) and playing it (a combat card) outside of combat?
>>And was this difference intentional? (why?) Or simply a result of the
>same design process that gave us the Madness Network and (D) symbols?
If Thoughts Betrayed had to be played during combat, then a blocking
vampire would have to let the acting one play start of combat/round
cards like Weather Control before it could play TB. Since the intent
of TB is to stop the other minion from playing cards entirely, it has
to be played before combat in order to match that intent.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <4ao8di$2...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:>>So what is the difference between playing before range on the first round
>>(cf. Trap) and playing it (a combat card) outside of combat?
>>
>>And was this difference intentional? (why?) Or simply a result of the
>>same design process that gave us the Madness Network and (D) symbols?>
>If Thoughts Betrayed had to be played during combat, then a blocking
>vampire would have to let the acting one play start of combat/round
>cards like Weather Control before it could play TB. Since the intent
>of TB is to stop the other minion from playing cards entirely, it has
>to be played before combat in order to match that intent.
>
Question:
This combat card, when used by the acting minion, will beat (prevent)
Obedience and Cat's Guidance (both Reaction cards), yes?
Diatribe:
So why not make it an Action Modifier/Reaction card (like Spectral Divination),
if you really wanted it to be played outside of combat?
You already have some cards that can only be used on a minion about to enter
combat, this should be one of them (rather than making yet another exception
to the rules) - Deflection; and when blocked, Change of Target, Cat's Guidance,
Dawn Operation, Clan Loyalty, and Horrific Countenance
(And Legacy of Power, used by a third vampire).
And you already have Action Modifiers/Reactions that modify the resulting
combat: Dawn Operation and Veiled Sight
Why make a special case out of this card when you already have the mechanics
in place to support it the way you say you want it to work?
--
-----
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text
: (On a totally tangential side-note, if I can't use any cards (card text)
: then what is the opposing minion fighting? I used to have a vampire in
: combat, but I can't use it because it is a card... Maybe he's got them
: both and is doing a little puppet show for me. :-): Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time,
: tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once.
: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant
Well, I've not seen any of the news rules (since I'm boycotting
them) but I would think that if, for example, Justine- Elder of Dallas
played this against Duck; Duck would still be able to do 1 hand damage
strikes, and if he already had equipment on him, I -think- he would be able
to use them, since Duck is not playing a new card (but using equpment he
already had). This card sounds alot like Fast Reaction or "Bumbling Target"
(aka Hidden Lurker) in that the first round of combat the opposing minion
cannot use strikes, .. but you could still reasonably use damage-reduction
cards.
Joseph.
L. Scott Johnson <lsc...@crl.com> wrote:
>Question:
>This combat card, when used by the acting minion, will beat (prevent)
>Obedience and Cat's Guidance (both Reaction cards), yes?
Thoughts Betrayed is a combat card played at the last second before the
combat actually revs up. Obedience and Cat's Guidance would be played
before you get to this point.
>Diatribe:
>So why not make it an Action Modifier/Reaction card (like Spectral Divination)>if you really wanted it to be played outside of combat?
Don't know, wasn't there, but it was probably to enforce the sense of
TB being a last-second card.
>You already have some cards that can only be used on a minion about to enter
>combat, this should be one of them (rather than making yet another exception
>to the rules) - Deflection; and when blocked, Change of Target, Cat's Guidance,
>Dawn Operation, Clan Loyalty, and Horrific Countenance
>(And Legacy of Power, used by a third vampire).
If it was one of them, then the acting minion could shut down all of these
reactions, which is not what we want. Obedience *should* beat
Thoughts Betrayed.
>Why make a special case out of this card when you already have the mechanics
>in place to support it the way you say you want it to work?
Under your suggestion, it doesn't work the way we want it to.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <4austo$k...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>>L. Scott Johnson <lsc...@crl.com> wrote:>>Question:
>>This combat card, when used by the acting minion, will beat (prevent)
>>Obedience and Cat's Guidance (both Reaction cards), yes?>
>Thoughts Betrayed is a combat card played at the last second before the
>combat actually revs up. Obedience and Cat's Guidance would be played
>before you get to this point.
>
More errata? Good. 'Cuz right now, it doesn't say 'at the last moment before
combat', it simply says 'before' combat, which is remarkably similar to the
'about to enter combat' text on Obedience. (Actually, 'about to enter' is
*more* restrictive than 'before' combat, time-wise.)
>If it was one of them, then the acting minion could shut down all of these
>reactions, which is not what we want. Obedience *should* beat
>Thoughts Betrayed.
I hope so.
>>Why make a special case out of this card when you already have the mechanics
>>in place to support it the way you say you want it to work?>
>Under your suggestion, it doesn't work the way we want it to.
Under your interpretation of the card text, it still doesn't work the way you
want it to. Need that 'last moment' errata.
(Better would be errata that it is played at the 'first moment of combat',
since it is a combat card, but since you seem intent on staying on the
wrong side of the combat line with this combat card, the 'last moment'
errata will suffice.)
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> In article <4austo$k...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
> Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
> >
>
> >Thoughts Betrayed is a combat card played at the last second before the
> >combat actually revs up. Obedience and Cat's Guidance would be played
> >before you get to this point.
> >
> More errata? Good. 'Cuz right now, it doesn't say 'at the last moment before
> combat', it simply says 'before' combat, which is remarkably similar to the
> 'about to enter combat' text on Obedience.> >If it was one of them, then the acting minion could shut down all of these
> >reactions, which is not what we want. Obedience *should* beat
> >Thoughts Betrayed.
>
> I hope so.
>
> >>Why make a special case out of this card when you already have the mechanics
> >>in place to support it the way you say you want it to work?
> >
> >Under your suggestion, it doesn't work the way we want it to.
>
> Under your interpretation of the card text, it still doesn't work the way you
> want it to. Need that 'last moment' errata.
>
> (Better would be errata that it is played at the 'first moment of combat',
> since it is a combat card, but since you seem intent on staying on the
> wrong side of the combat line with this combat card, the 'last moment'
> errata will suffice.)
Wouldn't just work better if the card was played "during the first round
of combat before range is determined" This would give the card the
desired effect. The only advantage of the current wording is that both
vampires could play thoughts betrayed before combat, but Tom has already
said that this is not the case.
Chad Lubrecht <lubr...@udel.edu> wrote:
>L. Scott Johnson wrote:>>
>> (Better would be errata that it is played at the 'first moment of combat',
>> since it is a combat card, but since you seem intent on staying on the
>> wrong side of the combat line with this combat card, the 'last moment'
>> errata will suffice.)>
>Wouldn't just work better if the card was played "during the first round
>of combat before range is determined" This would give the card the
>desired effect. The only advantage of the current wording is that both
>vampires could play thoughts betrayed before combat, but Tom has already
>said that this is not the case.
This card would then have to play "slap" with Torn Signpost, giving the Methuseluh playing TB a big advantage (like players can do with
careless opponents in Magic with Mana Short). Not too good for this
card.
TJH