New play group

H'lo all. Well, it's like this. A few months ago, one of my friends decided to show the rest of us an old-new card game, Jyhad. After a game or two we were all hooked, and wandered to the game store to purchase some boxes of cards. Now our group of 5 (max) each possesses one box of Jyhad per player (at $15 a box!) -- note this is Jyhad, not Vampire. We all play the sitdown game, and so I chose to play Brujah as I both love the clan and am used to playing fast creature swarm decks when I play Magic. I focus primarily on using Celerity and guns as well as things like Bum's Rushes to whack the crud out of my predator and prey. The problem is - it doesn't seem to work very well. I pop out Angel and Black Cat, grab a .44 Magnum or two, and start to torporize -- to date, no one's been able to really hurt my minions (I even use Acrobatics just in case someone feels like playing Gangrel with all their silly Maneuvers. Claws suck. :) ) The last game I played I torporized seven vampires before I was ousted (by my prey!). Everyone else plays heavy vote decks or pool gain and I just can't seem to kill them quickly enough. It's a funny game where the guy who has all unharmed and well equipped minions, having beat the tar out of every single other vampire on the board save Delilah Easton is ousted. :( I use Psyche! to get around Majesty, and it seems to work decently well since I go through my deck a mile a minute (bum's rush, maneuver to long range, shoot, nimble feet, shoot, blur, shoot, torpor). So it isn't the combat itself that's giving me problems - celerity + guns works, at least I think so, but it doesn't seem to do anything. Should I add ways to gain back pool? I have a couple of Blood Dolls and the Warzone Hunting Ground but it doesn't gain pool quickly enough to stop votes or sometimes even Obfuscate/Dominate Malkavian decks. Any help would be greatly appreciated (we play with no card limit, FYI). Much thanks, Kevin (If anyone cares, here's the deck) 12 Bum's Rush 8 Haven Uncovered --- 20 "get into combat" cards! 6 Psyche! 6 Acrobatics 8 Nimble Feet 12 Blur --- 32 combat cards 8 .44 Magnum --- 8 Equipment 5 Celerity 2 Blood Doll 1 Information Highway 1 Rack 1 Smiling Jack the Anarch --- 10 Masters (+8 Haven Uncovered) 70 cards total Crypt 2 Black Cat (5) 2 Angel (2) 2 Dre (3) 2 Uma hatch (3) 2 Nik (1) 1 Yuri (4) 1 Bianca (6) average 3.16 worst 20 best 6 Weenie Brujah with guns. :)

Kevin Patrick OBryan wrote: > H'lo all. > Hi Kevin! > > > > Well, it's like this. A few months ago, one of my friends decided to show the > rest of us an old-new card game, Jyhad. After a game or two we were all > hooked, and wandered to the game store to purchase some boxes of cards. Now > our group of 5 (max) each possesses one box of Jyhad per player (at $15 a > box!) -- note this is Jyhad, not Vampire. > A box per player should be sufficient (especially if you trade cards) > > > > We all play the sitdown game, and so I chose to play Brujah as I both love the > clan and am used to playing fast creature swarm decks when I play Magic. I > focus primarily on using Celerity and guns as well as things like Bum's Rushes > to whack the crud out of my predator and prey. A Brujah Rush deck. > The problem is - it doesn't > seem to work very well. You have to make your combats *reliable* that is: you have to be able to torporize a minion with one attack reliably. Use Immortal Grapple (great but rare in Jyhad) and Psyche! (uncommon? rare? I've forgotten) as much as you can, 'cause without them you have *big* problems with S:CE. > I pop out Angel and Black Cat, grab a .44 Magnum or > two, and start to torporize -- to date, no one's been able to really hurt my > minions (I even use Acrobatics just in case someone feels like playing Gangrel > with all their silly Maneuvers. Claws suck. :) ) How 'bout using some Brujah Allies, equip them with Guns and call some Autarkis Persecutions? Pays for Allies and Guns alike (and Brujah have Presence to force through the votes) > The last game I played I > torporized seven vampires before I was ousted (by my prey!). Remember, under 7/7 rules, you are only allowed to bleed your *prey* unless stated otherwise on the cards. Find them on the rulesmonger's page or using DejaNews (Rules Team Rulings, 07.07.98) > Everyone else > plays heavy vote decks or pool gain and I just can't seem to kill them quickly > enough. Koko attacks with Bum's Rush, Torn Signpost before range is chosen, Immortally Grapples (if you have this card), strikes with Undead Strength, Tastes their Vitae, presses with Mighty Grapple and strikes with Growing Fury in the next round (tasting their vitae again). A 1 capacity caitiff does 7 damage to a vamp unharmed. (the close range variant) If you go with guns, use Ammo Cards. They increase your killing potential immensely. .44 with Blur (sup): 6 damage .44 with Blur (sup) and Manstopper Rounds: 9 damage .44 with Blur (sup) and Glaser Rounds: 10 damage .44 with Blur (sup) and Dragon Breath Rounds: 6 + 2 aggro Damage (probably burning the enemy vamp. Your weapon is lost, but the effect may justify it) > It's a funny game where the guy who has all unharmed and well equipped > minions, having beat the tar out of every single other vampire on the board > save Delilah Easton is ousted. Minion Tap + combat (in which you are not harmed) + Taste of Vitae to refill your vamp with blood may be a useful and effective tactic to generate enough pool. > :( I use Psyche! to get around Majesty, and it > seems to work decently well since I go through my deck a mile a minute > (bum's rush, maneuver to long range, shoot, nimble feet, shoot, blur, shoot, > torpor). You may only use 1 source of additional strikes per round of combat. (you probably don't find this in the original Jyhad rules, but this is the official way) > So it isn't the combat itself that's giving me problems - celerity + > guns works, at least I think so, but it doesn't seem to do anything. To *oust* your prey you have to bleed your prey out of the game sooner or later. The idea of Rush decks is to torporize all of your prey's minions so that he has to bring out new vamps to make actions which costs him pool and brings him closer to death. > Should I > add ways to gain back pool? I have a couple of Blood Dolls and the Warzone > Hunting Ground but it doesn't gain pool quickly enough to stop votes or > sometimes even Obfuscate/Dominate Malkavian decks. This is the standard method of regaining blood. Minion Tap + fight + Taste of Vitae may be faster. For your opponents: kill 'em quickly and they won't pose a threat. Tell 'em what happens if they pose a threat to you and you probably won't have to kill 'em that fast and can concentrate on your prey (which you *should* kill). > > > > (If anyone cares, here's the deck) > > 12 Bum's Rush > 8 Haven Uncovered > --- > 20 "get into combat" cards! Try 5 Haven Uncovered mixed with 2 Minion Taps. (mainly for 4+ capacity vamps) and 1 Taste of Vitae (Blur costs blood and you wanna attack with every action, do you?) > > > > > 6 Psyche! > 6 Acrobatics > 8 Nimble Feet > 12 Blur > --- > 32 combat cards > > 8 .44 Magnum try 5 .44 and 3 Taste of Vitae > > > > --- > 8 Equipment > > 5 Celerity 4 Celerity should suffice too. > > > > 2 Blood Doll > 1 Information Highway your vamps are sufficiently low caps, so you won't need it. In a heavy vote environment it will probably be stolen via Disputed Territory anyway. Drop it. > > > > 1 Rack > 1 Smiling Jack the Anarch you cannot defend your Smiling Jack, so drop him. The three masters you saved could be invested for 3 Manstopper Rounds. You'll love them. > > > > --- > 10 Masters (+8 Haven Uncovered) > > 70 cards total > > Crypt > 2 Black Cat (5) > 2 Angel (2) > 2 Dre (3) > 2 Uma hatch (3) > 2 Nik (1) > 1 Yuri (4) > 1 Bianca (6) > > average 3.16 worst 20 best 6 > > Weenie Brujah with guns. :) > All in all: a nice deck. Michael Beer

Michael Beer wrote: > You may only use 1 source of additional strikes per round of combat. > (you probably don't find this in the original Jyhad rules, but this is the > official way) It's in there: "Only one card may give an additional strike to a minion for each round of combat." [Jyhad Rulebook Sec. 15.1] -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html

Kevin Patrick OBryan wrote: "Any help would be greatly appreciated (we play with no card limit, FYI)." I must say that as you are a new player, this is an excellent deck example, as you seem to understand the basics of how to make a combat deck work, and it has great focus. Good job! Anyway, onto advice/suggestions... "12 Bum's Rush 8 Haven Uncovered" Probably a few too many. Industry Standard for this sort of card is genrally 12 Bum's Rush/4 Haven Uncovered in a 90 card deck. As you have 20 in a 70 card deck, you are probably drawing them a touch more than you need to. I would increase the deck size to 90 (the generic tournament maximum. Most folks play with this as a general maximum deck size regardless of the number of players) and reduce the Havens to 4 or 5. "6 Psyche! 6 Acrobatics 8 Nimble Feet 12 Blur" Good. Perhaps a few more Psyche! (total 8-10) as you need them pretty severely. A hand full of Flashes (8 or so) could definitely help against other combat decks, but if your opponents tend not to play much combat, it isn't that important. "8 .44 Magnum" The problem with guns is, well, they suck. They are very expensive for what they do (if you have 4 minions each with a gun, that is 8 pool, ignoring Black Cat), and very slow, as you need to waste actions to equip with them before you can use them, and those actions you are spending getting guns would be much better spent killing your opponents. Also, a reliable +1 intercept deck will shut you down but good. If you are really stuck on guns, 8 Magnums is probably the way to go, but in reality, there is a better option which I will discuss a bit later. "5 Celerity 2 Blood Doll 1 Information Highway 1 Rack 1 Smiling Jack the Anarch" Certainly too many masters. You have 18 in a 70 card deck, which will get you hand jammed a lot. Combat decks should really only have about 15 masters (out of 90 cards), if not fewer. Of these, you should probably lose a few Havens (as I mentioned above), a couple Cel cards (go down to about 3), Smiling Jack (as you can't really protect it), and the Info Highway, as it is only good if you get it on the first or second turn, and only using one of them means you will rarely ever get it early enough. "Crypt 2 Black Cat (5) 2 Angel (2) 2 Dre (3) 2 Uma hatch (3) 2 Nik (1) 1 Yuri (4) 1 Bianca (6)" Good Crypt. You might consider adding in a few small Toreador with Celerity, but I can't think of any off hand that would help. All in all, a good new guy deck (again, kudos for the design insight that most new players lack), but suffers mostly from its reliance on guns. If you keep it a Gun deck, you desperately need some pool gain, like more Blood Dolls or Minion Taps. Taste of Vitae is vital for this sort of deck, as you need the extra blood to pay for the Celerity. As someone mentioned, Ammo cards might be good, as would a few of the better weapons, like Ivory Bow (if you can get one) and or a Flame Thrower or two. Also, unless you guys are using strict deck size limits, play a 90 card deck (most play groups generally use the 90 card maximum regardless of the players in the game, as those are the tournament rules), and fewer masters, about 13-15. The better option than guns, however, for a deck like this, is the archtypical "Brujah Pitch" deck, that uses lots and lots of Thrown Gates and Sewer Lids instead of guns. This has the benefit of not wasting actions on equiping. By messing around with the deck and taking out the guns, you could probably fit in, like 12 Thrown Gates and 8 Sewer Lids (if not more) and the Flashes to make them work, and you would have a much faster and more effective deck. You would need a new crypt, but there are enough smallish Pot/Cel vamps to make it work. Now that you have found this newsgroup, find the new 7/7 rules on line, as they have fixed alot of cards and rules that are important. Such as your Prey cannot actually bleed you unless they use a card that specifically says so (like cat Burgalary). Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "I burn my fingers, burn my toes Burn my uncle, burn his books" -Eno

kob...@nd.edu (Kevin Patrick OBryan) wrote: >H'lo all. >Well, it's like this. A few months ago, one of my friends decided to show the >rest of us an old-new card game, Jyhad. After a game or two we were all >hooked, and wandered to the game store to purchase some boxes of cards. Now >our group of 5 (max) each possesses one box of Jyhad per player (at $15 a >box!) -- note this is Jyhad, not Vampire. Nice deck, in all. I particularly agree with Michael Beer's insights. BTW, where is your group playing? Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver and future Prince of Charlotte, NC

In article <19980922190136...@ng73.aol.com>, PDB6 <pd...@aol.com> writes >"Crypt >2 Black Cat (5) >2 Angel (2) >2 Dre (3) >2 Uma hatch (3) >2 Nik (1) >1 Yuri (4) >1 Bianca (6)" > >Good Crypt. You might consider adding in a few small Toreador with Celerity, >but I can't think of any off hand that would help. Sarah Brando, from the Sabbat, may be useful since she has 3 capacity, superior Celerity and a very minor disadvantage which matters little in a rush deck like this. Volker (5 capacity Prince from Dark Sovereigns) may be useful for similar reasons. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia) Change nospam to obeah to reply Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:06:42 -0700, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: >Michael Beer wrote: >> You may only use 1 source of additional strikes per round of combat. >> (you probably don't find this in the original Jyhad rules, but this is the >> official way) > >It's in there: "Only one card may give an additional strike to a >minion for each round of combat." [Jyhad Rulebook Sec. 15.1] I thought they cited that as an error... something along the lines of what they meant was "Only one of any card may be played per round for additional strikes." I.E. Acrobatics can't be used twice per round, but acrobatics and any other card can, so long as onlyu one is used per round/

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:06:42 -0700, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: >Michael Beer wrote: >> You may only use 1 source of additional strikes per round of combat. >> (you probably don't find this in the original Jyhad rules, but this is the >> official way) > >It's in there: "Only one card may give an additional strike to a >minion for each round of combat." [Jyhad Rulebook Sec. 15.1] I thought they cited that as an error... something along the lines of what they meant was "Only one of any card may be played per round for additional strikes." I.E. Acrobatics can't be used twice per round, but acrobatics and any other card can, so long as onlyu one is used per round/ Remove the xxx's from the email address to reply.

General Domino wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:06:42 -0700, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > > >Michael Beer wrote: > >> You may only use 1 source of additional strikes per round of combat. > >> (you probably don't find this in the original Jyhad rules, but this is the > >> official way) > > > >It's in there: "Only one card may give an additional strike to a > >minion for each round of combat." [Jyhad Rulebook Sec. 15.1] > > I thought they cited that as an error... something along the lines of > what they meant was "Only one of any card may be played per round for > additional strikes." I.E. Acrobatics can't be used twice per round, > but acrobatics and any other card can, so long as onlyu one is used > per round/ > Nope. Only one additional strike gaining effect per round, unless the card says otherwise (i.e. superior Quickness). Believe me, it's nasty the other way (before I knew this rule, Bianca would usually beat Basilia in combat, even when the latter had full blood). -Chris