LSJ Q:s

Hi Can you play skillcards on uncontrolled vamps? If you can do they cost one extra pool to bring out? The Coven : Does it continue to rotate all the time, so that everone gets it during their turn? Please ban or change Rotschreck. It is the same as Thoughts betrayed was before, there is no defense against it. Once you are blocked you know you are ending up in torpor no matter what you do. No fun... Can you play 2 Flash (or 2 of any manuever-cards) to get manuevers on the same round of combat? /Ford

In message <b3639d8.01061...@posting.google.com>, Ford <waru...@hotmail.com> writes >Hi > >Can you play skillcards on uncontrolled vamps? No. By default, you can only play any card on a vampire who is controlled. Explicit card text is needed to overall this. > If you can do they cost >one extra pool to bring out? Moot. >The Coven : Does it continue to rotate all the time, so that everone >gets it during their turn? It goes to your *predator*. At the end of your predator's turn, it goes to their predator etc. It moves round the table the same way as Millicent Smith. For it to rotate all the time, you'd need to pass a Reversal of Fortunes. >Please ban or change Rotschreck. It is the same as Thoughts betrayed >was before, there is no defense against it. Once you are blocked you >know you are ending up in torpor no matter what you do. No fun... Not true. Rotschreck only works if the strike would be effective at that range. Against wolf claws etc., maneuver to long. They can only play one OOT master per round, so you *can* plan for it. Send a wave in, knowing you'll lose one to Rotschreck, but make the most of the fact that they can't play another. There are a number of cards that will do damage or cause a vampire to burn blood in another fashion e.g. Weather Control Don't let them block you - put more stealth in your deck. etc. etc. etc. >Can you play 2 Flash (or 2 of any manuever-cards) to get manuevers on >the same round of combat? Yes, assuming no explicit card text to the contrary. Of course, you can't play one maneuver to counter-act one of your own - basically, playing them for nothing. e.g. you can't rush a vampire, then play Flash-Flash and stay at close range, just to cycle. But if you bled, got blocked, played Flash and they played Swallowed by the Night, you could play Flash again. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6 Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D

"Ford" <waru...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news: b3639d8.01061...@posting.google.com... > Hi > > Can you play skillcards on uncontrolled vamps? If you can do they cost > one extra pool to bring out? You cannot. It was never allowed by the rules. > The Coven : Does it continue to rotate all the time, so that everone > gets it during their turn? Yes, at the end of the turn, you pass it even if it was untapped. So tap it ! > Please ban or change Rotschreck. It is the same as Thoughts betrayed > was before, there is no defense against it. Once you are blocked you > know you are ending up in torpor no matter what you do. No fun... No ! Rotschreck is good as it is. Remember if opposing vamp cannot do aggravated damage, it cannot be played. Just try maneuvers, song of serenity or disease if they try to aggravate their hands to play rotschreck ! this trick works. Remember also that only one rotschreck can be played in a whole turn cause it's an Out of turn master. so send a decoy, let him be rotschrecked and then, do the actions you really wanted to perform. It's not so difficult if you make alliance with another meth to mutually rescue your vampires. > Can you play 2 Flash (or 2 of any manuever-cards) to get manuevers on > the same round of combat? Yes, of course. But you cannot play the two cards if you don't need the maneuvers -that is if your opponent doesn't choose to maneuver back. Ex: you play flash to go to long range. if opponent play, say swallowed by the night to come close, then you can play your second flash. else the range is long and you can't play another maneuver card. I think it's clear =) > /Ford reyda

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> > >Please ban or change Rotschreck. It is the same as Thoughts betrayed > >was before, there is no defense against it. Once you are blocked you > >know you are ending up in torpor no matter what you do. No fun... > > Not true. > > Rotschreck only works if the strike would be effective at that range. > Against wolf claws etc., maneuver to long. You can try to reduce their hand damage with Song of serenity or Disease. this trick works.

James Coupe wrote: > > In message <b3639d8.01061...@posting.google.com>, Ford > <waru...@hotmail.com> writes > >Hi > > > >Can you play skillcards on uncontrolled vamps? > > No. > > By default, you can only play any card on a vampire who is controlled. > Explicit card text is needed to overall this. The target must be controlled, yes. [1.6.1.5] > >The Coven : Does it continue to rotate all the time, so that everone > >gets it during their turn? > > It goes to your *predator*. At the end of your predator's turn, it goes > to their predator etc. > > It moves round the table the same way as Millicent Smith. For it to > rotate all the time, you'd need to pass a Reversal of Fortunes. Correct. It passes to the right at the end of its controller's turn. > >Can you play 2 Flash (or 2 of any manuever-cards) to get manuevers on > >the same round of combat? > > Yes, assuming no explicit card text to the contrary. Correct. > Of course, you can't play one maneuver to counter-act one of your own - > basically, playing them for nothing. e.g. you can't rush a vampire, > then play Flash-Flash and stay at close range, just to cycle. > > But if you bled, got blocked, played Flash and they played Swallowed by > the Night, you could play Flash again. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>No ! Rotschreck is good as it is. Remember if opposing vamp cannot do >aggravated damage, it cannot be played. Just try maneuvers, song of serenity >or disease if they try to aggravate their hands to play rotschreck ! this >trick works. Remember also that only one rotschreck can be played in a >whole turn cause it's an Out of turn master. so send a decoy, let him be >rotschrecked and then, do the actions you really wanted to perform. It's not >so difficult if you make alliance with another meth to mutually rescue your >vampires. Apparently you've never been whacked with Burst of Sunlight/Rotschrek combo. Or how about the Dawn Operation/Weather Control combo. I've been whacked with this a number of times (thanks Matt & Aaron). Rotschrek would be better balanced if it was only playable during Strike Resolution. Bernie

In message <20010716115619...@ng-bh1.aol.com>, BernieTime <berni...@aol.com> writes >Apparently you've never been whacked with Burst of Sunlight/Rotschrek >combo. This works. However, they have to have blocked you first, or done it on an OOT rush. Neither of these are a given. > Or how about the Dawn Operation/Weather Control combo. This is environmental damage and does not. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1F She twirled a lock of hair around her forefinger and smiled B457CA213D7E6 faintly. "Actually, I'd settle for a small Greek." 68C3695D623D5D

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<WcA163Dx...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... > In message <20010716115619...@ng-bh1.aol.com>, BernieTime > <berni...@aol.com> writes > >Apparently you've never been whacked with Burst of Sunlight/Rotschrek > >combo. > > This works. However, they have to have blocked you first, or done it on > an OOT rush. > > Neither of these are a given. > > > Or how about the Dawn Operation/Weather Control combo. > > This is environmental damage and does not. Come on Bernie. Something has to trump your stuipd Form of Mist. Maybe if you played more then 1 stealth on an action a few of your vampires would survive. Matt and I are just showing you how much fun aggravated damage can be, when you can't do anything about it! :) Aaron

In message <7ab27d37.01071...@posting.google.com>, Aaron <roans...@yahoo.com> writes >Come on Bernie. Something has to trump your stuipd Form of Mist. Immortal Grapple works quite well here. As does Psyche! And Telepathic Tracking. And Thoughts Betrayed. [ quoted text not captured ]

This is why the deck also contains Flesh of Marble with Claws. Grapple away torpor boy.. Bernie [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <20010716180325...@ng-bk1.aol.com>, BernieTime <berni...@aol.com> writes >This is why the deck also contains Flesh of Marble with Claws. >Grapple away torpor boy.. Oh, exactly. One thing trumps another trumps another, and so on, thus giving the whole Rock-Paper-Scissors element of Jyhad when viewed at that level. [ quoted text not captured ]

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:ASgQ5jnx...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <20010716180325...@ng-bk1.aol.com>, BernieTime > <berni...@aol.com> writes > >This is why the deck also contains Flesh of Marble with Claws. > >Grapple away torpor boy.. > > Oh, exactly. One thing trumps another trumps another, and so on, thus > giving the whole Rock-Paper-Scissors element of Jyhad when viewed at > that level. > > -- > James Coupe PGP Key: Actually James, I think that Bernie was saying that he packs claws/Flesh of Marble for folks using ANY of those cards you listed. They are all beaten by his flesh of marble/claws...you want another round, great! You'd prefer only hand strikes, excellent...you..huh? Rotschrek!! :( And poof, Bernie's strategy is out the window.(but you are correct that they stop the form of mist!) Now that I think about it...something more like Elysium/Obedience/Muriel Lady Thunder are cards that will trump BOTH Form of Mist and Rotschreck.(keeping your rock paper scissors argument alive) Aaron

In message <3cO47.57669$Ro2.7...@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>, The Nosferatu Stuff <roans...@yahoo.com> writes >Actually James, I think that Bernie was saying that he packs claws/Flesh of >Marble for folks using ANY of those cards you listed. They do. The point was made that something had to beat Form of Mist. I made the point that something does. The point was then made that something beats the counters to Form of Mist, which is a perfectly valid point. And there are cards which trump those. It's the nature of Jyhad. Everything runs round in an interconnected loop. When viewed at this level, the trick is to seize cards which interact at they key points of the loop and play those effectively, so that you can control it. > They are all beaten >by his flesh of marble/claws Which are, in turn, beaten/equalled by Undead Persistence decks, or by a deck just popping you one agg damage with a bow at range etc. >...you want another round, great! You'd prefer >only hand strikes, excellent...you..huh? Rotschrek!! Which is then beaten by acting/blocking at the right times, with the right vampires and so on. > Now that I think about it...something more like >Elysium/Obedience/Muriel Lady Thunder are cards that will trump BOTH Form of >Mist and Rotschreck.(keeping your rock paper scissors argument alive) You don't need something that will trump *both*, just a continuous loop of trumps. The idea of Rock/Paper/Scissors works well for Bleed/Politics/Combat as the three major moving forces in the game. This extends well, as a concept, to the more minor facets of the game which make up those e.g. stealth/intercept, elements of voting, combat etc. This is still very Rock/Paper/Scissors (in that I have my implement, you have yours - if mine beats yours, you are very, very screwed) but with more than just 3 parts - perhaps some elaborate rock/paper/scissors/stick/glue/knife/string/etc. type game, in that it's a circle of things. Taking one example, simple combat: I hit you, you hit me. I trump/improve upon that by deciding to add Lucky Blow. You decide to trump that by adding Skin of Rock. I decide to trump that by adding Theft of Vitae. You decide to trump that by adding Dodge. I decide to trump that by adding Thoughts Betrayed. You decide to escape that by using non-Strike: based strikes. And so on. It continually loops round, driven by a metagame and intuition for where the important parts of the circle lie. It used to be that the strongest point on the loop was Immortal Grapple based combat, IME. It's very much more open now. The Brujah can IG you. The Gangrel can prevent and keep going with agg. The Tremere have Thoughts Betrayed, Telepathic Tracking, Shotgun Ritual and Perfect Clarity. The Toreador have Telepathic Tracking for intercept/gun/blur. The Assamites have lethal combat (tempered by poor S:CE defence). The Tzimisce have a number of similarly lethal things to do, combined with being The Daddies (tm) at intercept (animalism *and* auspex). I'm wondering if Nossy combat has been slightly left behind, but the Nosferatu Hate You is still a good solid deck strategy. I might be tempted to add a few more things like Carrion Crows to it, to flank out at grabbing hold of Skin of Steel decks and Leather Jacket weenies (quite a common defence, in my experience). -- [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 03:22:39 GMT, "The Nosferatu Stuff" <roans...@yahoo.com> wrote: >"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message >news:ASgQ5jnx...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... >> In message <20010716180325...@ng-bk1.aol.com>, BernieTime >> <berni...@aol.com> writes >> >This is why the deck also contains Flesh of Marble with Claws. >> >Grapple away torpor boy.. >> >> Oh, exactly. One thing trumps another trumps another, and so on, thus >> giving the whole Rock-Paper-Scissors element of Jyhad when viewed at >> that level. >> >> -- >> James Coupe PGP Key: > >Actually James, I think that Bernie was saying that he packs claws/Flesh of >Marble for folks using ANY of those cards you listed. They are all beaten Superior Psyche! restarts combat and pitches his Flesh of Marble out the window. :) Never be afraid of Psyche! even in a grabby deck - it can save your butt sometimes. -- Derek

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B2E3B71...@white-wolf.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Is there an echo in here?

In message <a9abcc59.01071...@posting.google.com>, Barny Baker <barny...@synergygroup.co.uk> writes >Is there an echo in here? 'Ello Barney. Generally, LSJ responds to any post asking for his attention on rules queries (which is very useful for newbies who don't know who on the newsgroup is good/bad/indifferent with rules queries beyond LSJ, who is official). However, a number of others (myself, Lasombra etc.) tend to get in first in order to get the information the people need to them as quickly as possible. It's usually then in LSJ's interests to officially confirm the correct points in these posts, and re-write any mistakes, merely for time-saving purposes. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D [ quoted text not captured ]

barny...@synergygroup.co.uk (Barny Baker) wrote: >LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> James Coupe wrote: >>> [Many correct answers] >> Correct. > >Is there an echo in here? Now there are two. See the subject line for the reason for the first echo. The reason for the second is unknown, at least to me. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com

James wrote: >>I'm wondering if Nossy combat has been slightly left behind, but the Nosferatu Hate You is still a good solid deck strategy. I might be tempted to add a few more things like Carrion Crows to it, to flank out at grabbing hold of Skin of Steel decks and Leather Jacket weenies (quite a common defence, in my experience).>> I still do fairly well at tournaments with that deck--in the last two big ones I played at, I got into the finals in the first and almost got into the finals in the second. In local play, however, my Rush deck fares much less well--there is much more combat and combat defense (lots of Obediance, Fortitude, and there is a very effective Assamite Qui/Cel deck in circulation right now), but still at tournaments, I don't find that you run into that much combat defense. Most people either A) don't even consider combat as something that they will have to contend with or B) say "Well, if I sit down next to a Rush deck, I die, but it probably won't happen more than once, and I'll sweep the other two tables..." At Origins, I ran into a couple !Toreador decks filled with Majesty and not much else (they were rather soft and gooey); a Malk deck that had some dodges (again, like taffy); and a Tsimiscee deck that had limited combat defense. The only two decks I ran into that had any significant combat defense were a Lasombra deck that had enough Hit Back defense to convince me to table split with him, and a Tsimiscee intercept deck with lots of Animalism and aggro damage (we generally both went to torpor in a fight, but that was usually much worse for me than him). I've considered switching to POT/ani to use DotB instead of manuvers, Carrion Crows, and Song of Serenity to contend with the Gangrel, but the vampire selection is vastly inferior (you lose access to Agatha and Olivia, who are the backbone of the deck--Nigel is the smallest vamp with POT/ani, so you need to use a lot of 6's to make the crypt work). Still, The Nosferatu Hate You is fairly viable, certainly still in blind competition (although the Jury is still out on the Pentex and 4 Computer Hackings--I am still yet to play Pentex in any game, and the Hackings have neither won me the game or hurt me in any way...) Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/bakija6 "She's a hero you see. She's not like us." -Giles

>>>I'm wondering if Nossy combat has been slightly left behind, but the >Nosferatu Hate You is still a good solid deck strategy. I might be >tempted to add a few more things like Carrion Crows to it, to flank out >at grabbing hold of Skin of Steel decks and Leather Jacket weenies >(quite a common defence, in my experience).>> I dunno Pete. Only other thing that comes to mind would be to equip with Vials of Garou blood, but that would probably slow down your momentum too much. If they get around to designing some new potence cards it would be nice to see a strike card that destroys equipment while still dealing damage. I can't help thinking that BIG fist should still pummel the stuffing out of a leather jacket. >I still do fairly well at tournaments with that deck--in the last two big >ones I played at, I got into the finals in the first and almost got into the >finals in the second. In local play, however, my Rush deck fares much > less well--there is much more combat and combat defense (lots of > Obediance, Fortitude, and there is a very effective Assamite Qui/Cel > deck in circulation right now), but still at tournaments, I don't find that > you run into that much combat defense. Well Peter, after you whacked my deck out of circulation back at what? Origins 99? I've since learned the ways of the Nosferatu, and give them as much space as possible (and how!). > Most people either > A) don't even consider combat as something that they will have to > contend with > B) Or say "Well, if I sit down next to a Rush deck, I die, but it > probably won't happen more than once, and I'll sweep the other two tables..." >At Origins, I ran into a couple !Toreador decks filled with Majesty and not >much else (they were rather soft and gooey); a Malk deck that had some dodges >(again, like taffy); and a Tsimiscee deck that had limited combat defense. >The only two decks I ran into that had any significant combat defense were a >Lasombra deck that had enough Hit Back defense to convince me to table split >with him, and a Tsimiscee intercept deck with lots of Animalism and aggro >damage (we generally both went to torpor in a fight, but that was usually >much worse for me than him). Hey! Don't forget the Gangrel bleed machine,, Some of it was luck on my part that I was always cycling into the cards needed to survive your beatings. Friday night at Origins was probably the most FUN I've had playing Vampire in some time. You know, if you had someone like Nigel or Olivia laying in wait with an Atonement I probably couldn't have gotten through you. After blocking & playing Form of Mist your blocker (in theory) would still be untapped and able to re-block the continuing action. Not to mention reducing the number of Vote Actions your Predator is likely to try against you. >I've considered switching to POT/ani to use DotB instead of manuvers, Carrion >Crows, and Song of Serenity to contend with the Gangrel, but the vampire >selection is vastly inferior (you lose access to Agatha and Olivia, who are >the backbone of the deck--Nigel is the smallest vamp with POT/ani, so you need > to use a lot of 6's to make the crypt work). Still, The Nosferatu Hate You is >fairly viable, certainly still in blind competition (although the Jury is >still out on the Pentex and 4 Computer Hackings--I am still yet to play Pentex > in any game, and the Hackings have neither won me the game or hurt me > in any way...) Call me crazy but it might be worth playing with a couple of Owl Companions? Not sure how I'd feel to be showing my hand to the entire table. Might even let your guy bleed me rather than "tip" my hand. Add in Steam Tunnels and you know exactly what your prey has in hand every turn. However if you're going to persue buffing up the Animalism on your crew, you may wish to replace some Computer Hacks with Tier of Souls (at superiour) to gain a permanent +1 bleed against your prey. Besides, even at minor it's more fun hunting blood off your prey than some unwitting mortal. Only other thing to add is how much I like Visit from the Capuchin. Unless you need that one blood from Dreams for your Vamps, I'd rather have a Visit for the raw card drawing ability. Draw 4 cards that you won't need to discard (for free!). Unlike Dreams which will net gain you 6 cards, but also force you to discard 6 cards. Dreams sticks around for at least three turns. I can play a Visit every turn with no worries about self contestation. >Peter D Bakija >PD...@aol.com Later man, hope some of my musings turn a wheel or two.. Bernie Bresnahan

In message <20010718014109...@ng-cs1.aol.com>, BernieTime <berni...@aol.com> writes >>>>I'm wondering if Nossy combat has been slightly left behind, but the >>Nosferatu Hate You is still a good solid deck strategy. I might be >>tempted to add a few more things like Carrion Crows to it, to flank out >>at grabbing hold of Skin of Steel decks and Leather Jacket weenies >>(quite a common defence, in my experience).>> > >I dunno Pete. Only other thing that comes to mind would be to >equip with Vials of Garou blood, but that would probably slow >down your momentum too much. >If they get around to designing some new potence cards it would >be nice to see a strike card that destroys equipment while still >dealing damage. I can't help thinking that BIG fist should still pummel >the stuffing out of a leather jacket. That first part, surrounded by Pete's ">> >>" was actually originally from me, for clarity. [ quoted text not captured ]

berni...@aol.com (BernieTime) wrote in message news:<20010718014109...@ng-cs1.aol.com>... > >>>I'm wondering if Nossy combat has been slightly left behind, but the > >Nosferatu Hate You is still a good solid deck strategy. I might be > >tempted to add a few more things like Carrion Crows to it, to flank out > >at grabbing hold of Skin of Steel decks and Leather Jacket weenies > >(quite a common defence, in my experience).>> > > I dunno Pete. Only other thing that comes to mind would be to > equip with Vials of Garou blood, but that would probably slow > down your momentum too much. > If they get around to designing some new potence cards it would > be nice to see a strike card that destroys equipment while still > dealing damage. I can't help thinking that BIG fist should still pummel > the stuffing out of a leather jacket. they did... Fractured Armament Type(s): Combat Discipline: Potence Rarity: Common Artist(s): Dave Seeley Set(s): *Sabbat Sabbat War * Set card was introduced Card Text: Strike: destroy equipment. SUP: As above, with 1 damage. Clarifications and Rulings The inferior version of Fractured Armament is not a damage-dealing strike; the superior version is (so Increased Strength will affect the superior, but not the inferior, for example). [LSJ 19970225] Hope this helps. Although I'm unclear about the timing of the superior, as strikes resolve I do damage and destroy the jacket... can they burn the jacket to prevent the damage from the burning of the jacket? Cameron

>hey did... > >Fractured Armament > Yep, But I was thiinking of something a bit less lame. When's the last time anyone played with Fractured Armament? Never, well why would that be?? Oh yeah, because it blows.. Don't mean to get on ya, but FA is pretty much wallpaper far as I'm concerned. Bernie

"BernieTime" <berni...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20010718230752...@ng-mb1.aol.com... > >hey did... > > > >Fractured Armament > > > > Yep, > > But I was thiinking of something a bit less lame. > > When's the last time anyone played with Fractured Armament? > > Never, well why would that be?? > > Oh yeah, because it blows.. I don't think it's because the card is so bad so much that its effect is duplicated with much better results in Immortal Grapple or to a lesser degree Drawing Out the Beast. Why hose their weapon strikes with FA when you can nullify them with IG and also prevent them Dodging, S:CE-ing, Coma-ing, etc. Sure, someone else can just go grab the weapon off their torporous friend but by then they've learned their lesson. Though if FA worked at long-range, I might consider it in a Potence deck, but probably only one copy just in case a guy with a Disguised RPG comes after me. I hate players who do shit like that :) Cheers, WES

berni...@aol.com (BernieTime) wrote in message news:<20010718230752...@ng-mb1.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] In constructed-deck play, sure. But FA is a TERRIFIC card in sealed-deck, and i always grab as many as i can when i'm playing in that format. i think the same could be said for a lot of the cards that "blow". As an aside, i assume blow really means suck, as in blow-job. As an aside to an aside, why do we think that bad cards suck? Is it because good cards bite?

orcao...@hotmail.com (Cameron) wrote: >The inferior version of Fractured Armament is not a damage-dealing >strike; the superior version is (so Increased Strength will affect the >superior, but not the inferior, for example). [LSJ 19970225] > >Hope this helps. Although I'm unclear about the timing of the >superior, as strikes resolve I do damage and destroy the jacket... can >they burn the jacket to prevent the damage from the burning of the >jacket? No. Strike damage is applied simultaneously with other strike-resolution effects (like burning the Jacket). After applying the effects, you move on to preventing/healing damage (with no Jacket). [ quoted text not captured ]

> Though if FA worked at long-range, I might consider it in a Potence deck, > but probably only one copy just in case a guy with a Disguised RPG comes > after me. I hate players who do shit like that :) LOL! Nice one Wes.

>> hey did... >> >> Fractured Armament >> > > Yep, > > But I was thiinking of something a bit less lame. Specifically? > When's the last time anyone played with Fractured Armament? > Never, well why would that be?? > Oh yeah, because it blows.. No, more like because it requires equipment to destroy to even use. It can rapidly clog your hand. And, as a close range strike (as pointed out elsewhere), you might as well play IG. I *have* seen Shattering Blow before, but that's mostly for destroying Sport Bikes in non-combat decks. (I've certainly played a few in Giovanni decks.) > Don't mean to get on ya, but FA is pretty much wallpaper far as I'm concerned. Well, it's cool with Increased Strength, but the opportunity cost is to high. What one would prefer is a card that destroys equipment, but can be cycled freely for damage. Even better if it worked at range. And, hey, how about give it First Strike? But that's why Nigel has Superior Animalism, for his own *personal* "Lupine Assault." =) And, yeah, I've seen plenty a Canine Horde played in my time, but never a Fractured Armament. -- Pat Ricochet See Dick hit on the con chicks. Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta See Dick get shot down in flames. Shoot, shoot, flames. Dick is a fanboy.

>berni...@aol.com (BernieTime) >> >hey did... >> > >> >Fractured Armament >> > >> >> Yep, >> >> But I was thiinking of something a bit less lame. >> >> When's the last time anyone played with Fractured Armament? >> >> Never, well why would that be?? >> >> Oh yeah, because it blows.. >> >> Don't mean to get on ya, but FA is pretty much wallpaper far as I'm >concerned. >> >> Bernie > >In constructed-deck play, sure. But FA is a TERRIFIC card in >sealed-deck, and i always grab as many as i can when i'm playing in >that format. i think the same could be said for a lot of the cards >that "blow". Well, then allow me to clarify that Fractured Armament in use for Standard VEKN constructed tournaments is a waste of paper & dye. >As an aside, i assume blow really means suck, as in blow-job. As an >aside to an aside, why do we think that bad cards suck? Is it because >good cards bite? As in niche cards that see ZERO play in constructed probably have a design flaw. Go ahead. Push the red shiny button..

In message <20010721010418...@ng-cr1.aol.com>, BernieTime <berni...@aol.com> writes >Well, then allow me to clarify that Fractured Armament in use >for Standard VEKN constructed tournaments is a waste of >paper & dye. > I can back up never having seen it. >As in niche cards that see ZERO play in constructed probably >have a design flaw. The design flaw isn't in Fractured Armament, it's in that Equipment blew so hard it was never worth putting it in as a prayer, unless your specific environment *demanded* it. Had locations never been usable, Arson/Rampage/Disputed Territory would similarly blow. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "Surely somewhere out there there's a woman who's EBD690ECD7A1F been sodomized by her father and is capable of B457CA213D7E6 composing a few coherent sentences on the subject." 68C3695D623D5D

berni...@aol.com (BernieTime) wrote in message news:<20010721010418...@ng-cr1.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Is that necessarily true, i wonder. My view is that constructed and sealed are very VERY different forms of the game. Provided a card is of some use in some format of the game i would challenge the notion that the card is no good. > > Go ahead. Push the red shiny button.. Er, right-oh.