Aggravating combat ends?

If you pull the pin on a white phosphourous and your opponents SCE, the grenade does not burn iirc. What if you played rotschreck? Same question, but now dragonsbreath rounds. Since combat ends before the gun can be burnt after strike resolution, is your gun burnt? T

Talonz wrote: > If you pull the pin on a white phosphourous and your opponents SCE, > the grenade does not burn iirc. You don't "pull the pin" when you declare the strike. You pull the pin, toss, and the grenade explodes when (and if) the strike with the WPG resolves. > What if you played rotschreck? The strike doesn't resolve. Google: "Grenade Rotschreck author:LSJ" > Same question, but now dragonsbreath rounds. Since combat ends before > the gun can be burnt after strike resolution, is your gun burnt? No. Google: "Dragons Breath Rotschreck author:LSJ" -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Hi all, after so much time since the release of Bloodlines, I find that some things still are fuzzy, especially concerning the utility of some cards. So I would like to know, among those of you who actually played the concerned clans (I'm not interested in "educated guesses", we've already had plety of those), what you now think of the utility of the following cards : - Temporis Reactions (Rewind Time, Internal Recursion, and also usable by Trujahs : Iron Will) ; these are supposed, I would think, to make up for the lack of redirect or intercept in this clan. I've tried to use them, but have always found that more rush or other (less costly...) things to do were more interesting to put in the deck. Opinions ? - The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? - Same as above with the Samedi, who can prevent all damage inflicted to a ghoul. Any succesful combo out there ? -- Yours from 6 feet under, Orpheus "Having faith means denying what you know is real Because reality is too hard to live with" Brian Azarello LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message : 3EEA560F...@white-wolf.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

> - The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, > Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), > and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an > interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? Cry Wolf (or is it Cry Havoc?), the new Werewolf. He's a free, and fairly potent, ally with the "does not untap, burn if tapped during untap" liability -- Panacea and Rayzeel's song counter that handily. Think: Bring him out, Abominate him, Ressurect the original card, the untap him every turn with Panacea. Keep him alive with Panacea, the Mystic, etc. Suddenly -- a very good minion to have. And if they manage to kill him, just Ressurect him again. > - Same as above with the Samedi, who can prevent all damage inflicted to a > ghoul. Any succesful combo out there ? NOw that you can Ghoul any mortal, we're likely to see some really nice combos. Fanboy

Woops, I must have hit "answer", instead of startin a new thread !! I'll post that again, maybe you can forward your answer... -- Orpheus "Having faith means denying what you know is real Because reality is too hard to live with" Brian Azarello The Fanboy <texas...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message : f99d61c5.03061...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

Hi all, after so much time since the release of Bloodlines, I find that some things still are fuzzy, especially concerning the utility of some cards. So I would like to know, among those of you who actually played the concerned clans (I'm not interested in "educated guesses", we've already had plety of those), what you now think of the utility of the following cards : - Temporis Reactions (Rewind Time, Internal Recursion, and also usable by Trujahs : Iron Will) ; these are supposed, I would think, to make up for the lack of redirect or intercept in this clan. I've tried to use them, but have always found that more rush or other (less costly...) things to do were more interesting to put in the deck. Opinions ? - The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? - Same as above with the Samedi, who can prevent all damage inflicted to a ghoul. Any succesful combo out there ? - And while we're at it, there have been many succesful Gargoyles deck, but did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do you put in the deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use Flight, non-acting Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so let's here the testers now... -- Yours from 6 feet under, Orpheus [ quoted text not captured ]

(Forwarding answer by FANBOY) : > - The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, > Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), > and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an > interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? Cry Wolf (or is it Cry Havoc?), the new Werewolf. He's a free, and fairly potent, ally with the "does not untap, burn if tapped during untap" liability -- Panacea and Rayzeel's song counter that handily. Think: Bring him out, Abominate him, Ressurect the original card, the untap him every turn with Panacea. Keep him alive with Panacea, the Mystic, etc. Suddenly -- a very good minion to have. And if they manage to kill him, just Ressurect him again. > - Same as above with the Samedi, who can prevent all damage inflicted to a > ghoul. Any succesful combo out there ? NOw that you can Ghoul any mortal, we're likely to see some really nice combos. Fanboy

"Orpheus" <orph...@free.fr> escribió en el mensaje news:3eeaf3ee$0$26629$626a...@news.free.fr... > Hi all, > > after so much time since the release of Bloodlines, I find that some things > still are fuzzy, especially concerning the utility of some cards. So I would > like to know, among those of you who actually played the concerned clans > (I'm not interested in "educated guesses", we've already had plety of > those), what you now think of the utility of the following cards : > > - Temporis Reactions (Rewind Time, Internal Recursion, and also usable by > Trujahs : Iron Will) ; these are supposed, I would think, to make up for the > lack of redirect or intercept in this clan. I've tried to use them, but have > always found that more rush or other (less costly...) things to do were more > interesting to put in the deck. Opinions ? Have used heavily internal recursion in a tap and bleed tor/trujah deck, really weird one. Nu with a few ravens, blocking prey's vamps, playing internal recursion+staredown/majesties... and then mind numb and swarm with presence bleed actions. Iron will has seen fair success in some Lasombra political decks, as a kind of taunt control all over the table. Your awe fails, your voter fails, your conditioning fails... but of course, used cross table. > > - The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, > Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), > and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an > interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? > Nope, but seen a force of will-daring the dawn-intercept !salubri deck (with several masochisms) and a dozen or so sense vitality (at val, rescue for free/gain one and rescue. At for, gain 2 from bank) > - Same as above with the Samedi, who can prevent all damage inflicted to a > ghoul. Any succesful combo out there ? > > - And while we're at it, there have been many succesful Gargoyles deck, but > did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do you put in the > deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use Flight, non-acting > Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so let's here the testers > now... > Only High ground, because it can be used by non-flying minions, and patrol. But i think that pounce is a really nice card, even better if used along immortal grapple. Most gargoyles don't have POT but pot, so... [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3eeaf3ee$0$26629$626a...@news.free.fr>, Orpheus <orph...@free.fr> writes: >- Temporis Reactions (Rewind Time, Internal Recursion, and also usable by >Trujahs : Iron Will) ; these are supposed, I would think, to make up for the >lack of redirect or intercept in this clan. I've tried to use them, but have >always found that more rush or other (less costly...) things to do were more >interesting to put in the deck. Opinions ? Scarce clan, so you're supposed to be using them to bolster - and in turn bolstering - another clan, almost certainly. With Obfuscate, Serpentis and Presence fall-backs, they could actually work interestingly with the Setites. Neither the Trujah or the Setites have much intercept anyway - so the Temporis Reactions help bolster that. And if the clans are competitive anyway... A mixed Synesios (obf PRE ser 2 votes)/Setite Free State Rant deck looks cute, for instance. You can supplement that with Ecstasy for bleed defence, and some Trujah reactions when the shit really hits the fan. With TEM, you can always look to a couple of Sanguine Instructions. Since you then have a lot of political clout too, along with some bleed defence and some last line Temporis defence, you're doing rather well. You can probably defend in combat, you can probably get yourself out of harm's way vote wise, you should be able to get some vote dominance going. The lack of generic intercept isn't *hugely* crippling. The next obvious vampire is Krassimir. With dom/nec/POT, you're supposed to take him in with the Giovanni, you'd suppose. There's a little Giovanni pre, too, though not much, so it doesn't hurt. Fallbacks on Clio's Kiss and Lapse make vague sense, and between Raphael, Pochtli and Carlotta, you could be bringing a bit of Obfuscate in. And here the Dominate is reasonable defence bounce wise (only minor on a big vampire, but hey-ho), with Temporis as another line of defence, and you've got potentially reasonable combat - Lapse isn't *bad*, even if it's not the best card ever. And if you're using Taste of Vitae anyway, the cost is less relevant. Nu has ani/aus - which isn't bad. I'm not sure where you'd really want to fill her in though. But ani/aus means that TEM only has to be supplemental. The trick seems to be to graft the vampire into a deck combination, and then add Temporis to supplement it, rather than the other way round. Temporis is good, but limited by cost and scarcity (of vampires), but has some very useful ways of just saying "No". And Lapse is pretty good indeed. >- The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, >Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), >and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an >interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? I'm wondering if a beleaguered !Ven deck might find AUS/FOR useful - perhaps Blance with aus/FOR/OBE, bringing out Cry Wolf to allow it combat "defence". Though that's probably a waste of the actions from Blanche, without a few Freaks. Renewed Vigor and Neutral Guard wouldn't go amiss. It's just a random thought. I like the look of Cry Wolf, but I think it might be best just using it as a one-shot. Or a blocking threat. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Lucky that my breasts are small and humble, EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 So you don't confuse them with mountains. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

>So I would >like to know, among those of you who actually played the concerned clans >(I'm not interested in "educated guesses", we've already had plety of >those), what you now think of the utility of the following cards : > >- Temporis Reactions (Rewind Time, Internal Recursion, and also usable by >Trujahs : Iron Will) ; these are supposed, I would think, to make up for the >lack of redirect or intercept in this clan. I've tried to use them, but have >always found that more rush or other (less costly...) things to do were more >interesting to put in the deck. Opinions ? Rewind Time is okay, but I'm less likely to play it if the focus is on Trujah rather than, say, Ventrue as ousting actions and the tedium of recouping the blood/reacting make me want to do other things when I'm relying primarily on Trujah. Internal Recursion I've used in draft for the Presence. Not having easy intercept, I've yet to find a reason in a Trujah deck. I have no intention of playing Iron Will in any deck, ever. "Good decks play good cards" - a maxim that should be stressed more often. >- The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, >Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), >and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an >interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? No. Of the ~13 Salubri or !Salubri decks I've built, I've never been compelled to use any of these. >- Same as above with the Samedi, who can prevent all damage inflicted to a >ghoul. Any succesful combo out there ? No. Unsuccessful combo - Ghouled Street Thugs rush you and don't die, deck result --> Jimmy Dunn had the only successful rush, admittedly punking Leandro, but why bother with the Thugs? Problem is that allies (and retainers) aren't good enough to bother saving, especially when you factor in playing a vampire with Thanatosis in order to do it.

>- And while we're at it, there have been many succesful Gargoyles deck, but >did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do you put in the >deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use Flight, non-acting >Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so let's here the testers >now... I've become more enamored with Circle, to put it in a way that isn't likely to be helpful, it "changes combat math". OTOH, lost interest in Soar as people tend to not care what actions the Gargoyles take. Also lost interest in Pounce even though it's a beating when it works as Stone Quills and High Ground tend to be the standard combat. Patrol shows up in small numbers fairly often, though it's hit or miss whether it helps. Swoop doesn't excite me. I should note that the better decks I build that have Gargoyles in play don't run any in the crypt, so Fortitude and/or Potence combat combinations aren't of as much use to me. Somehow, I don't think it's helpful to mention the usefulness of Pounce in my Pounce, Immortal Grapple, Veil of Silence deck since it predictably sucked, though I pulled off the combo at least once, an achievement in itself.

> > - And while we're at it, there have been many succesful Gargoyles deck, but > did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do you put in the > deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use Flight, non-acting > Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so let's here the testers > now... > here's a deck we've been playing/testing to great effect. this can get a GW or at least some VPs consistently. Key flight card: high ground. also uses patrol and circle. sewer lids/razor bats are used for those undirected actions. stealth bleed with heavy stealth or cross table politics can give this deck some trouble. added another direct intervention (2 total) and a protected resources just for this. Deck Name: Gargoyles can't do jack ver.2 Created By: johann Description: my version of the smiling jack gargoyle intercept deck based on Talonz's original deck idea Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 19, Max: 28, Avg: 5.92) ---------------------------------------------- 3 Obsidian for pot VIS 5, Gargoyle 3 Ferox ani FOR POT VIS 7, Gargoyle 1 Luma aus FOR pot vis 5, Gargoyle 2 Saxum FOR pot pre VIS 6, Gargoyle 2 Ublo-Satha cel FOR POT VIS 7, Gargoyle 1 Fidus for tha vis 4, Gargoyle Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (14 cards) 4 Blood Doll 1 Direct Intervention 1 KRCG News Radio 1 Millicent Smith, Puritan Vampire Hunter 1 Pentex Subversion 1 Powerbase: Montreal 1 Rack, The 1 Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The 3 Smiling Jack, The Anarch Action (4 cards) 2 Army of Rats 2 Atonement Action Modifier (2 cards) 2 Freak Drive Reaction (13 cards) 8 Forced Awakening 5 Patrol Combat (48 cards) 3 Bond with the Mountain 4 Circle 8 Collapse the Arches 3 Flow Within the Mountain 10 High Ground 4 Rolling with the Punches 4 Skin of Rock 4 Superior Mettle 4 Taste of Vitae 4 Thrown Sewer Lid Ally (1 cards) 1 Rock Cat Retainer (7 cards) 1 Mr. Winthrop 6 Razor Bat Equipment (1 cards) 1 Ivory Bow This deck was last saved at 4:24:06 AM on 10/28/02 nearly swept a table last saturday (4vp) my comments: 2 razor bats used to be sport bikes, replaced mob connections with a direct intervention, removed 1 circle for ivory bow...Rock Cat is good pity it doesnt regenerate, wish it could play taste of vitae :) have fun stinkycat

> > - And while we're at it, there have been many succesful Gargoyles deck, but > did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do you put in the > deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use Flight, non-acting > Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so let's here the testers > now... I've personally been using a Flight based Garg/Trem deck that did fairly well in my local group, even though I consider it totally stupid that there's no flight card in Blood Lines that simpy says: "Maneuver". Now I'm forced to use Fake Out.... Pounce is a good card, as you should see it as a pushing the limit that's free, considering most gargs have only inferior Potence. The drawback is not an issue if you're not the acting minion, which is exactly what this deck did. Patrol is of great help here, as is defender of the Haven. Swoop isn't all that hot, but it fits good when you're up against gun decks or something else that likes to maneuver (which tend to be most combat decks ib my group) since it's a nice and easy 4(!) damage together with pounce. All for free. Disarm is the obvious followup. The deck used big Tremere guys with fortitude (Cardano, Muaziz and Ulugh to be precise) to bring out the gargs with help from govern and a few 4th traditions. From then on I went on creating new gargs with Create Gargoyle and throw blood around with restoration and fifth tradition. My gargs would just block whatever I wanted to block while my Tremere bled away with Govern/Bonding, Dawn ops and Daring the Dawn. The weenie gargs could do both. I suppose you could make a good deck with smaller Tremere, a bunch of larger gargs, high ground, sewer lids and maybe well aimed cars, but I don't have any High Ground cards, so I don't have experience with that. Phoenix

Hi James, although you didn't stick to the original theme of the thread (speak of field-tested experience), I'll answer in this thread rather than start a new one. Thanks to the people who told us their experience with Flight and the Salubri allies, let's hope we'll get more on the various questions. > Scarce clan, so you're supposed to be using them to bolster - and in > turn bolstering - another clan, almost certainly. Obviously agreed. I'll state again my observation : these cards look very good (although expensive) on paper, but I've always found it better, up to now, to replace them with something else. Of course, I might be mistaken, and would like to hear which ones are really useful and in which context. > With Obfuscate, Serpentis and Presence fall-backs, they could actually > work interestingly with the Setites. Neither the Trujah or the Setites > have much intercept anyway - so the Temporis Reactions help bolster > that. And if the clans are competitive anyway... A mixed Synesios (obf > PRE ser 2 votes)/Setite Free State Rant deck looks cute, for instance. Sure. The only question, as with the other decks of that type, is : do the Setites really gain from such reactions, rather than just going forward fast or using typical intercept (locations, Pack Tactics...) and Vote ractions ? > You can supplement that with Ecstasy for bleed defence, and some Trujah > reactions when the shit really hits the fan. Sure. Once more : is it worth adding more cards for the blood cost/effect ratio of these cards ? > With TEM, you can always > look to a couple of Sanguine Instructions. Uh ? You mean of course, only if you Clan Impersonated before ?! > Since you then have a lot of political clout too, along with some bleed > defence and some last line Temporis defence, you're doing rather well. > You can probably defend in combat, you can probably get yourself out of > harm's way vote wise, you should be able to get some vote dominance > going. The lack of generic intercept isn't *hugely* crippling. We have seen many "classical" Setites decks winning, so I'm not sure Tem reactions would make a difference. > The next obvious vampire is Krassimir. With dom/nec/POT, you're > supposed to take him in with the Giovanni, you'd suppose. Yes, I did so in various versions of such a deck, listed on http://necrobones.free.fr (soon to be updated). There's a > little Giovanni pre, too, though not much, so it doesn't hurt. It's a different deck than the Obf / Domain of Evernight one, but I'm working on it too... > Fallbacks on Clio's Kiss and Lapse make vague sense, and Clio's Kiss ? Surely you must mean Clotho's gift ? Clio's is so cornercase it borders Wallpaper... Lapse can be very effective with a very simple Thrown Gate, some Tem Domain of Evernight and / or a few Disarms (and if you're afraid of Additionals and you have enough Pre, the first effect of Rigor Mortis makes for a nice - if costly - combo !!)... between > Raphael, Pochtli and Carlotta, you could be bringing a bit of Obfuscate Right. If you don't go for Pot Raph is good, and then so are the Baron and Raful. > in. And here the Dominate is reasonable defence bounce wise (only minor Yes. > on a big vampire, but hey-ho), with Temporis as another line of defence, Once more : is it needed ? I never can find place for more reactions in such active decks (be it the bruise'n'bleed or the plain bleed version). > and you've got potentially reasonable combat - Lapse isn't *bad*, even > if it's not the best card ever. And if you're using Taste of Vitae > anyway, the cost is less relevant. Sure. > Nu has ani/aus - which isn't bad. I'm not sure where you'd really want > to fill her in though. But ani/aus means that TEM only has to be > supplemental. Agreed. I do have a 6 discipline NU deck, but then I use a few Aus (Intercept and Nose), and Ani is here mainly for the Drawing Outs (no big deal, you opponent won't strike anyway...). ;-) > The trick seems to be to graft the vampire into a deck combination, and > then add Temporis to supplement it, rather than the other way round. > Temporis is good, but limited by cost and scarcity (of vampires), but > has some very useful ways of just saying "No". And Lapse is pretty good > indeed. Sure. My question was about reactions, not the whole discipline : I have tested its effectiveness combat-wise, although its great weakness is the speed at which the vampire(s) empty themselves (if you don't get a Taste or if damage is prevented). > >- The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, > >Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting (except Resurrection), > >and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be chosen to make an > >interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? > > I'm wondering if a beleaguered !Ven deck might find AUS/FOR useful - > perhaps Blance with aus/FOR/OBE, bringing out Cry Wolf to allow it > combat "defence". Though that's probably a waste of the actions from > Blanche, without a few Freaks. Renewed Vigor and Neutral Guard wouldn't > go amiss. > It's just a random thought. I like the look of Cry Wolf, but I think it > might be best just using it as a one-shot. Or a blocking threat. Yeah, it looks like some people tested and adopted it, I might give it a try... Thanks for your input, Orpheus

On 13 Jun 2003 14:10:52 -0700, talo...@hotmail.com (Talonz) scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] white phosphorous and dragon breathed guns only burn after (as?) the strike resolves. rotschrek and s:ce both end combat before 'normal' strikes resolve. therefore, the objects would not burn in either situation. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:08:04 +0200, "Orpheus" <orph...@free.fr> scrawled: [snip] >- Same as above with the Samedi, who can prevent all damage inflicted to a >ghoul. Any succesful combo out there ? i went with an assamite/samedi deck. ghoul retainers and flamethrowers, ghouls of plaza moreira, etc. dirty and regular contracts. it sucked. :) >- And while we're at it, there have been many succesful Gargoyles deck, but >did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do you put in the >deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use Flight, non-acting >Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so let's here the testers >now... I had a pure Gargoyle deck win a 4 player game wednesday night. half slave half not. and the slaves aren't 'non-acting', just non-(D)-acting. It has several patrol, several pounce, and a lone swoop. idea based vaguely off a deck called the O-Line (IIRC). That is, non-slaves acting, slaves blocking. i had obsidian as the only non-slave for most of the game, bleeding for 1 each turn and mostly geting telepathic countered. both my predator and prey were playing library destruction decks, and my prey got a brinksmanship in play. (prey was harbingers/le dinh tho, predator was !nos feline sabateur/egothha and the odd slaughterhouse). cross table buddy was group 1/2 tremere. the tremere guy got 1 vp, i got the other three _with no library_. I ousted my prey and his brinksmanship in the same turn my libary ran out. if i didn't oust him that turn i'd be in a bad bad place with his brinksmanship. with no librry left i had: Luma with 2 razor bats and a blood doll, saxum with 1 razor bat, obsidian bleeding for 1 a lot. PB chicago, PB washington, Blood Puppy, Rack pointing at Luma, KRCG, Club Zombie. My predator's Egottha ate my PB Montreal off the top of my library. grr. and slaughterhoused all 5 of my armour of terras. and my last 6 cards in hand were open for all to see thanks to the tremere's 4 revelations at superior in play (he played them before ousting my predator, so i couldn't block). it sucks only getting 1 (D) action per turn. although towards the end i did manage to bring half my crpyt into my uncontrolled region to find and influence up erinyi. so that's my field test of flying gargoyles. hope it sounded informative rather than just an opportunity to brag. ;) lessons learned: Razor Bats rock! excuse the pun..... also: traded for a nd Ferox to swap in for one of the deck's 3 Ublo Sathas [ quoted text not captured ]

> >- And while we're at it, there have been many succesful Gargoyles deck, but > >did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do you put in the > >deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use Flight, non-acting > >Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so let's here the testers > >now... > There are some Gargoyle deck in Paris that are quite efficient, using flight and based on pure gargoyles. Those are walls, winning with smiling jack, whose combat is limited to five cards high ground collapse thrown sewer lid prevent disarm which fight at both long and/or close range with killer 2-cards combo. Add forced awakenings, rasor bats and the "combat ends / untap " card Add masters : blood doll, smiling jack, direct intervention, intercept locations and you get a perfectly viable deck.

Orpheus wrote: > Hi all, > [snip intro] [snip] I have yet to try out Temporis > - The Salubri / !Salubri allies cards (Panacea, Rayzeel's Song, > Resurrection) : Nice cards, but not that interesting > (except Resurrection), > and I didn't succeed in finding which allies could be > chosen to make an > interesting deck. Field-tested ideas ? > Saw the weenie abomination-rayzeel's song deck in action once. Weenie gangrel with some !Salubri, I believe... it was kind of scary but got taken out before it REALLY got rolling. [snip] No samedi work here, either. > - And while we're at it, there have been many succesful > Gargoyles deck, but > did anyone have any luck using Flight (with them) ? Who do > you put in the > deck : Indie Gargoyles, Trems / !Trems who can't use > Flight, non-acting > Gargoyles ? Seems too much trouble at first sight, so > let's here the testers > now... Patrol was occasionally useful. As it's been mentioned, I tried the Immortal Grapple + Pounce for those without much potence. It works fantastically, and really hoses folks who rely on additional strikes. So far I've seen soar as a useful tool in a political deck, but that's about it. Swoop is awful and Circle isn't used much. All my high grounds have been used for the plain old maneuver by other clans and allies :) Ever so amused, Dorrinal -- Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com http://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad