(LSJ) Trophy: Chosen

Malgorzata burns a red list vamp I have T:Chosen in play, and using the trophy rule, I fetch a T:Chosen from my library. Both are placed on Malgie, Malgorzata untaps, becomes Black hand and gains 4 blood. Due to the Second T:C, does she now also become Seraph, and gain another 4 blood? (As well as untapping, but as she is already untapped, this my be ignored for the xample) In other words, do they stack?

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, all cards stack by default. Also interesting to this question is: yes, the trophies are awarded/applied in sequence.

[ quoted text not captured ] Does this mean that if there is a card called Untappy with text "The vampire with this card may tap to untap a younger vampire", and Malgorzata in the example above has this card, that she can then tap after the effect of the first T:C to untap Smudge, and then untap again as a result of the 2nd T:C?

[ quoted text not captured ] I'd guess "no". You're in the middle of the "award trophies" effect. But because you can't move cards simultaneously, you have to order the two trophies sequentially. But both card movements are still within the one "award trophies" effect, which you can't insert another effect into the middle of. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] I would normally guess "No" too. Except for the fact that here LSJ has explicitly stated that they application of the trophy occurs sequentially. Normally I would see a single effect here, occur in order, but this leads me to believe that it is possible for there to be a moment in between T:C1 and T:C2 which allows the3 activation of effects

[ quoted text not captured ] Really? I thought diablerie was "atomic" and couldn't be interrupted by effects. The Red List/Trophy mechanic is covered within. Jeff 6.5.5. Diablerie Diablerie is the act of sending another vampire to Final Death by drinking his blood. Only ready vampires can commit diablerie. Vampires marked as Blood Cursed cannot commit diablerie. The vampire committing diablerie is called the diablerist. Diablerie is resolved as follows: 1. All blood on the victim is moved to the diablerist. Blood in excess of his capacity drains off as normal. 2. The diablerist may take any equipment on the victim. 3. The victim is burned (sent to his owner's ash heap). Any cards and counters on him are also burned. 4. If the victim was older (had a higher capacity) than the diablerist, the diablerist can be given a Discipline. His controller may go through her library, ash heap and hand to get a master Discipline card to put on the diablerist and then reshuffle her library or draw back up to her hand size as necessary. This increases the diablerist's capacity by 1, but does not automatically give the diablerist a blood to fill that new capacity. 5. If the victim was Red List, the diablerist may receive trophies (see section 11). The steps of diablerie are treated as a single unit. No effects can be used to interrupt the diablerie; effects may be played either before or after, as appropriate. After diablerie, a blood hunt may be called on the diablerist.

Jeff Kuta wrote: > On Apr 30, 3:47 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Blooded Sand wrote: >> > On Apr 27, 2:04 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> >> Blooded Sand wrote: >> >>> Malgorzata burns a red list vamp >> >>> I have T:Chosen in play, and using the trophy rule, I fetch a T:Chosen >> >>> from my library. Both are placed on Malgie, Malgorzata untaps, becomes >> >>> Black hand and gains 4 blood. Due to the Second T:C, does she now also >> >>> become Seraph, and gain another 4 blood? (As well as untapping, but as >> >>> she is already untapped, this my be ignored for the xample) >> >>> In other words, do they stack? >> >> Yes, all cards stack by default. >> >> >> Also interesting to this question is: yes, the trophies are awarded/applied in >> >> sequence. >> >> > Does this mean that if there is a card called Untappy with text "The >> > vampire with this card may tap to untap a younger vampire", and >> > Malgorzata in the example above has this card, that she can then tap >> > after the effect of the first T:C to untap Smudge, and then untap >> > again as a result of the 2nd T:C? >> >> Sure. > > Really? I thought diablerie was "atomic" and couldn't be interrupted > by effects. The Red List/Trophy mechanic is covered within. Maybe Malgorzata burned a red list vamp in combat without using diablerie in this hypothetical situation? I still don't like interrupting the "gain trophies" effect, though. It seems to be allowing you to gain a trophy, tap the barrens for a new card, gain another trophy. Feels like the whole "can i tap the barrens to find a sudden reversal when someone plays a master?" question, which I can't actually remember the final the answer to, but would hope the answer was "no". :) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] This answer is no. In fact, you don't even redraw before a Sudden/DI occurs. Ira

Jeff Kuta wrote: > On Apr 30, 3:47 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Blooded Sand wrote: >>> On Apr 27, 2:04 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >>>> Blooded Sand wrote: >>>>> Malgorzata burns a red list vamp >>>>> I have T:Chosen in play, and using the trophy rule, I fetch a T:Chosen >>>>> from my library. Both are placed on Malgie, Malgorzata untaps, becomes >>>>> Black hand and gains 4 blood. Due to the Second T:C, does she now also >>>>> become Seraph, and gain another 4 blood? (As well as untapping, but as >>>>> she is already untapped, this my be ignored for the xample) >>>>> In other words, do they stack? >>>> Yes, all cards stack by default. >>>> Also interesting to this question is: yes, the trophies are awarded/applied in >>>> sequence. >>> Does this mean that if there is a card called Untappy with text "The >>> vampire with this card may tap to untap a younger vampire", and >>> Malgorzata in the example above has this card, that she can then tap >>> after the effect of the first T:C to untap Smudge, and then untap >>> again as a result of the 2nd T:C? >> Sure. > > Really? I thought diablerie was "atomic" and couldn't be interrupted > by effects. The Red List/Trophy mechanic is covered within. Ah, right. REVERSAL: The answer to the hypothetical situation above is: "no" (because diablerie is atomic). [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] what if they were burned with a Decapitate instead of diablerie? [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Oh, right. The example didn't specify diablerie. Sure, that works (so the reversal isn't so much a reversal as a clarification about a special case).

[ quoted text not captured ] > > on the diablerist.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - So as a result of this, in the original example, Malgorzata receives both trophies at the same time and then resolves them in any order chosen by Malgorzata's Methuselah? Vegas gNat

[ quoted text not captured ] If "same time" means "as part of diablerie" (therefore assuming diablerie into the original example), then yes. She technically receives them in sequence.