Should slow players be banned

Well last saturday was it the first sanctioned tournament in Holland since well ever I think. We had about 20 players which was sweeet, well it started off good first round my table was finished well within the 1:50 time limit too bad I only got 1 vp but that's another thing. then I went over too look at other tables that's when the absolute anoance started some people at this tournament were so damn slow one guy acomplished too take about 5 minutes too transfer his pool, looking at cards about 15 times in your turn I mean they don't change if you look at them more often. I got my ass kicked in the tournament I can handle that but the thing that really kills my ego is that to my opinion there were about 4 or so good players the rest were made up of new-bees who were playing the usual killer decks. So my point is should we do some thing about slow players I mean really really really slow players maybey the chess thing works where everybody has a litle clock and theyonly have about 5 minutes too finish there turn. let me know what you think about this. Emile

[ quoted text not captured ] I don't think you can really do this. Basically, at the start of a game, each player has 4 opponents that they have to beat. Easy enough. However, you have to beat those players, and adapt your strategy through the constantly changing situation that you are in (A grand- predator is just as important to think about as you predator, if he is looking strong, and about to imminently take out your predator.) Whilst I am not too sure whether you mean new players were slow (although I would have said you were unfair in this) or experienced players (who could be thought to be a bit quicker) you don't make clear. It takes the grandmasters at chess time to learn to think 10+ moves ahead quickly. I know when I put my computer on hard difficulty, it takes that 5+ minutes to think of a move. I can understand you getting a little upset, particularly if they are time wasting to get a timed out half vp (which in my opinion should be against the rules) but if they are not, then it is unfair to not allow them enough time. Also, from a Prince's point of view, it would be very difficult to monitor 5 minute time limits for each player during a 2hr game, with more than 1 table being played at time (5 stopclocks - not very feasible). Anyway, just my 10pence worth. Andy Setite Ruler pf Cambridge VEKN Prince -- Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outragous fortune, or get fat on chocolate cake, eat the cake, life is too short to worry!

In message <cbf416fb.02011...@posting.google.com>, Emile Bosman <ebo...@hotmail.com> writes: >I got my ass kicked in the tournament I can handle that but the thing >that really kills my ego is that to my opinion there were about 4 or >so good players the rest were made up of new-bees who were playing the >usual killer decks. Where problems exist, call over a judge. This is already handled under 141 of the Penalty guidelines. -- James Coupe You remind me of the babe. What babe? PGP 0x5D623D5D The babe with the power. What power? EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Power of voodoo. Who do? 13D7E668C3695D623D5D You do. Do what? Remind me of the babe.

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:j$TM0GSz$uQ8...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <cbf416fb.02011...@posting.google.com>, Emile > Bosman <ebo...@hotmail.com> writes: > >I got my ass kicked in the tournament I can handle that but the thing > >that really kills my ego is that to my opinion there were about 4 or > >so good players the rest were made up of new-bees who were playing the > >usual killer decks. > > Where problems exist, call over a judge. This is already handled under > 141 of the Penalty guidelines. Seconded. i did actually threaten to warn someone once for time-wasting, and another time i got a whole table to up its work-rate. Did the judges in your tourney patrol around telling people when an hour, 90 minutes etc was up? It's not a bad plan, and focusses the table's attention on unnecessarily-slow play. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Emile Bosman" <ebo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:cbf416fb.02011...@posting.google.com... > Well last saturday was it the first sanctioned tournament in Holland > since well ever I think. <snip> > I got my ass kicked in the tournament I can handle that but the thing > that really kills my ego is that to my opinion there were about 4 or > so good players the rest were made up of new-bees who were playing the > usual killer decks. > Usual killer decks? I had my 'hangover/sleep deprivation' deck with me, so I wouldn't have to think. Got my ass kicked too, BTW (1.5 + .5 + 1, no table wins). Lousy dom weenies. :-) OTOH, Jan Van Den Eede almost had a perfect preliminary, until I snatched a VP from under his nose.:-) Yeah, something to be proudish about. But 14/15 still is an accomplishment. He swept the final too, giving him a total of 19/20 Vps (is this a record?) As an aside: does WW supports using the Swiss Method for asigning tableseating? Jeroen

"jeroen rombouts" <jeroen....@pandora.be> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:6nD08.67851$rt4....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be... > As an aside: does WW supports using the Swiss Method for asigning > tableseating? > WW supports the optimal seating order chart found in the archon spreadsheet http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/downloads/TheArchon.zip i'm glad that there is no swiss format in vampire. it is really boring to play against the same people all the time. regards, pallando

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:j$TM0GSz$uQ8...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <cbf416fb.02011...@posting.google.com>, Emile > Bosman <ebo...@hotmail.com> writes: > >I got my ass kicked in the tournament I can handle that but the thing > >that really kills my ego is that to my opinion there were about 4 or > >so good players the rest were made up of new-bees who were playing the > >usual killer decks. > > Where problems exist, call over a judge. This is already handled under > 141 of the Penalty guidelines. If a player is disqualified (for whatever reason) does his predator receive a VP an 6 pool? I don't htink I've read anywhere how to handle this. Roger

>Seconded. i did actually threaten to warn someone once for time-wasting, and >another time i got a whole table to up its work-rate. Did the judges in your >tourney patrol around telling people when an hour, 90 minutes etc was up? >It's >not a bad plan, and focusses the table's attention on unnecessarily-slow >play. I've encountered slow players but surprisingly, its often some veteran players. Some people really just take forever to take their turns. And when the table spends 5-10 minutes debating whether or not a political action will be blocked and what the terms are, it can get quite frustrating! Just decide!!! Halcyan 2

Roger Carhult wrote: > If a player is disqualified (for whatever reason) does his predator receive > a VP an 6 pool? I don't htink I've read anywhere how to handle this. The judge handles it as appropriate (per the table conditions at the time). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"pallando" <pall...@NOSPAM.gmx.at> wrote in message news:a1v2ir$oj6$1...@bird.wu-wien.ac.at... [ quoted text not captured ] I know, I just played a tourney that used swiss. When playing only 3 prelims, some players actually benefit from playing a bad starting game. Jeroen

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C436249...@white-wolf.com... > Roger Carhult wrote: > > If a player is disqualified (for whatever reason) does his predator receive > > a VP an 6 pool? I don't htink I've read anywhere how to handle this. > > The judge handles it as appropriate (per the table conditions at the time). Could this lead to that the judge assigns a player 0,5 VP? Or does he have to give either 0 or 1 VP? What if the judge gives 0 VP and it's a 4-player table, that will mean the table will only play for 3 VP's?? Meaning game wins is easier obtained? Roger

"Roger Carhult" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message news:a201fq$toc30$1...@ID-104455.news.dfncis.de... > > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > > Roger Carhult wrote: > > > If a player is disqualified (for whatever reason) does his predator > > > receive a VP an 6 pool? I don't htink I've read anywhere how > > > to handle this. > > > > The judge handles it as appropriate (per the table conditions at the > > time). > > Could this lead to that the judge assigns a player 0,5 VP? Or does he have > to give either 0 or 1 VP? What if the judge gives 0 VP and it's a 4-player > table, that will mean the table will only play for 3 VP's?? Meaning game > wins is easier obtained? The judges have a wide range of options. The point is that the judge will do their best to mitigate the damage done by the player leaving. This can be accomplished in many ways, including the awarding of VPs, partial VPs, pool adjustments, leaving pool on the table that a player must remove by bleeding, etc. -- Robert Goudie Chairman, V:EKN rob...@vtesinla.org

On 14 Jan 2002, Emile Bosman wrote: > Well last saturday was it the first sanctioned tournament in Holland > since well ever I think. > > We had about 20 players which was sweeet, well it started off good > first round my table was finished well within the 1:50 time limit too > bad I only got 1 vp but that's another thing. 1:50 time limit? from vekn tourney rules: 3.1.1. Round Time Limits Each round in the tournament has a time limit. The minimum time limit used in V:TES rounds is two hours. The time limit must be announced before play begins. The final round may last longer than the preliminary rounds, at the judge's option. curious to see how the event was sanctioned with a non-official time limit. > then I went over too look at other tables that's when the absolute > anoance started some people at this tournament were so damn slow one > guy acomplished too take about 5 minutes too transfer his pool, > looking at cards about 15 times in your turn I mean they don't change > if you look at them more often. as several people have noted, the vekn tourney rules already cover slow play, even slow play that is not being done to "stall". salem.

"....salem christ...." <u360...@bohm.anu.edu.au> wrote in message news:<Pine.SOL.3.90.1020115171615.6105A-100000@bohm>... [ quoted text not captured ] Well thanx for you all to letting me know how you think on the topic. Jeroen you were there at the tournament you saw how slow some people were. And a thing about the winner I mean yes he was a good player I admit that but !Malk bleed common I could even win with that I would like too see some origional decks being played at a tournament. I actually thought about playing weenie potence now I wish I did it could have been so sweet, there wasn't one descent combat deck there so it would have been major ass kicking. So my final point is if there isn't a stratic reason for you to slow down the table don't you have ample time too think about your turn during other peoples turns. But then again I play at the Joker in Utrecht and vampire there equals absolute chaos so I guess this time maybey my meta game got me killed. Till the next tournament in 2 Febuary in de Jaarbeurshallen Emile Bosman