Hi,
When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same cards
or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks.. Do people buy
there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like to
know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
I have totally come to love this game, even though I've only been playing
for a few months. But, it's really killing my finances ( No short-term
investment cards can be played in real life)
pls advice, sincerly yours
-Kenneth-
Kenneth Kristiansen wrote:
> When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
> constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same cards
> or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
... for some other games, sure.
Official VTES tournaments have no card limits.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
>When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
>constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same cards
>or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's,
Not anymore, possibly never for a sanctioned tournament. Certainly couldn't
get a tournament sanctioned nowadays if you included card limits.
>but what I'd
>like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
>I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks.. Do people buy
>there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
>they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like to
>know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
Different people do different things. Some people talk in terms of cases (next
step beyond boxes) when they buy cards. Others buy boxes and may trade to get
lots of copies of certain cards. Others buy by the booster. Large spectrum.
In my case, for most CCGs I play seriously, I try to preorder enough boxes to
get a couple of sets with extras.
>I have totally come to love this game, even though I've only been playing
>for a few months. But, it's really killing my finances ( No short-term
>investment cards can be played in real life)
CCGs are expensive hobbies. Maybe not as expensive as collecting private jets,
but not trivial for a lot of folks.
"Kenneth Kristiansen" <ken...@chello.no> wrote in message
news:3kFt8.2669$%P4.2...@news01.chello.no...
> Hi,
>
> When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
> constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same
cards
> or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
> like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
> I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks..
As others have said, there's no card limit in sanctioned
tournaments; in unsanctioned ones, of course, the participants
can do whatever they like.
That said, a lot of those winning decks don't have lots of
copies of especially rare cards; a lot of the duplication
is of fairly common (and therefore cheap) stuff.
> Do people buy
> there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
> they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like
to
> know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
Speaking for myself, I do some of all of those. Ian (curevei)
is right that CCGs are a relatively expensive hobby; no more
so, I'd say, than going to nightclubs to see bands, but certainly
more so than, say, knitting. :-) Mostly I buy cards by the
booster box, but I also have bought stuff as singles, and I've
borrowed cards from other people in my group for tournaments,
too.
I must have at least eight or ten thousand cards, judging from
the boxes I have to keep them in, but that's a total estimate.
I know of other players who have as many as twenty thousand.
But I also know of tournament winning decks that were constructed
from collections closer to two thousand cards (if that). Given
that there are at least 400 cards per booster box (and quite a
few more in the preconstructed-starter boxes that White Wolf has
put out - 890 if I remember right), that seems fairly reasonable
to me. (It implies an expenditure of something like $200 at
online-discount prices, or somewhat more at local retail.)
I'd guess that the typical tournament player has at least 2000
cards in his or her collection. But I don't think going from
2000 to 10000 makes a huge difference in 'ability to make
winning decks'. Experience at playing, and willingness to play
what's effective, are much more important in my experience.
> I have totally come to love this game, even though I've only been playing
> for a few months. But, it's really killing my finances ( No short-term
> investment cards can be played in real life)
The preconstructed starter decks are definitely a good way to
be able to make competitive decks with limited investment;
they're $10 each at retail and have 89 pretty good cards in
them apiece. If you were to buy two of one clan's deck (eg
Tzimisce) and make a 70-90 card deck out of "the good stuff"
you'd probably have a tourney-worthy result for any of the
eight clans they've made precons for so far. Supplement with
boosters as available, if/when you get tired of playing the
same thing all the time...
I certainly hope you can afford to stick with the game; we
need all the players we can get, even if they're not loaded.
:-)
Josh
also not exactly loaded
"Kenneth Kristiansen" <ken...@chello.no> wrote in message news:<3kFt8.2669$%P4.2...@news01.chello.no>...
> Hi,
>
> When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
> constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same cards
> or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
> like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
> I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks.. Do people buy
> there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
> they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like to
> know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
The answer is all of the above. people buy lots of cards, trade with
others, and borrow from their friends when they need to make a weird
combination of rares deck. 2 easy options to get lots of commons,
cheap:
trade (communal haven and succubus club) many people will trade a lot
of extra cards for a few rarer cards, especially if you're starting to
play the game (never hurts to encourage new people). Check out
communal haven (I'm biased, its where I trade)
buy. People like the lasombra and errol sell cards on line, both are
reputable and fair. errol is your best bet if you just need to buy 15
govern the unalinged.
the third option is to buy lots of starters and boosters to get all
the commons you need. If you go this route, I seriously suggest doing
it within a play group. also, don't try to get cards for every clan
and discipline in the game. choose one or two that you just aren't
going to play, and be willing to trade away cards in that zone for
others that your more interested in. (for example I never play Tremere
and Tzimitze, because I've never had an interest and so traded away
specialty cards that belonged to those clans.) If you later find that
you've got interest in a clan, you can always buy more cards or make
new trades.
hope this helps. Keep in mind too, that a deck doesn't need to have
tons of a single card to be good.
Cameron Domer
"Kenneth Kristiansen" <ken...@chello.no> wrote in message news:<3kFt8.2669$%P4.2...@news01.chello.no>...
> I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks.. Do people buy> there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
> they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like to
> know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
Personally I think your best bet is to buy boxes of old stock people
have through eBay.com or another online auction service. Perhaps some
of the Norwegians here can offer advice. I know lots of stuff trades
hands in the United Kingdom so you should be able to work deals closer
to home.
You can get sealed booster boxes online for roughly US$40-70 plus
US$5-$10 shipping and handling, probably more overseas. I'd suggest
buying one box each of all sets out there (Jyhad or VTES not both,
Dark Sovereigns (cheap!), Ancient Hearts (can probably skip this one
considering price-to-reprint ratio), Final Nights (a must), Sabbat War
and Bloodlines). Sabbat will be quite expensive (US$300) so don't
bother aside from trying to trade for OOP vamps. I'd also put Sabbat
War high on your list since it is the hardest to find of the ones
available so the price will go up quicker. Also, if you buy
Jyhad/VTES, try to get booster boxes of 36 packs. You'll get more
rares this way (worth a shot at Freak Drive any day).
The only drag about buying boxes online is you don't really support
your local gaming shop since they thrive off retail buyers. If you can
be disciplined with your money, you'll be better off in the long run
however. Still, it may be worth buying a pack every now and again so
you don't just take up space at a shop without paying for it. Good
luck!
ken...@chello.no writes:
>When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
>constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same cards
>or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
>like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
>I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks.
Many, but not all decks use fair numbers of rare or uncommon cards.
Most combat decks want Taste of Vitae, most vote decks want Voter
Cap, and most bloat cards are uncommon or rare. But, sneak-and-
bleed or weenie bleed decks run just fine with almost all common cards.
So, shoot for Setite, Lasombra, or Malk + stealth and +bleed cards,
along with whatever combat defenses that clan can cough up.
The other idea is to build something from starter decks. One deck
isn't enough, but 2-3 of any given starter allows a quite respectable
deck. It guarantees 6+ of a variety of cards useful for the clan. You
can back it up with appropriate booster cards. As others have pointed
out, you will tend to collect highly valued rares you don't want in
the decks you play and you can sell or trade for a variety of cards
you do. Don't get ripped off in trades either; check out www.vtesinla.org
for card prices. Some of the FN rares are surprisingly valuable, and
most serious players will practically give away commons.
You don't have to spend a lot for some good competitive decks. Hopefully
cards like the Traditions,Taste of Vitae, and Sudden Reversal which get
used in quantity in most decks that can will get upgraded to common
in the Camarilla set. It's odd the prince/justicar, which is effectively
one of the most used disciplines, consists entirely of uncommon and
rare cards.
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
"It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson
Kenneth Kristiansen wrote:
> When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
> constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same cards
> or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
> like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
> I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks..
First off, congratulations. You actually pulled off stating the exceedingly
obvious without getting flamed by some people on this NG who're hell-bent on
convincing everyone that you don't really need cards, especially not lots of
them, to play VTES.
> Do people buy
> there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
> they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like to
> know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
>
Many cards are available from various sources as singles or for trade; there are
some cards, however, that - despite repeated claims to the contrary - you have
about as much chance of acquiring this way as a snowflake in hell.
Just ask anyone who tells you every card is available for everything you need
and take note of the ones these people will not under any circumstances offer
you - these are the ones you probably won't get unless you get them from packs.
[For simplicity, unless you have access to a source of Sabbat War Brujah
starters or cheap Jyhad/VTES boxes, for the time being forget about Potence
decks... Immortal Grapples and Torn Signposts are available for trade, but
people will want more, often considerably more, than another uncommon for them.
Maybe with the upcoming Camarilla set, this will change.]
You won't get around spending a fair bit of money though - either on singles or
on packs (after all, if you don't buy anything, you can't very well trade
anything).
> I have totally come to love this game, even though I've only been playing
> for a few months. But, it's really killing my finances ( No short-term
> investment cards can be played in real life)
If you can locate some Jyhad boxes for cheap, that's probably the best way to
go... unfortunately, you'd probably have to order them from the US, so S&H and
import tax will up the effective price considerably.
Thomas
In message <3CB7F845...@aon.at>,
Thomas Pichler <tom.p...@aon.at> mumbled something about:
>Kenneth Kristiansen wrote:
>>> When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
>> constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same cards
>> or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
>> like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
>> I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks..>
>First off, congratulations. You actually pulled off stating the exceedingly
>obvious without getting flamed by some people on this NG who're hell-bent on
>convincing everyone that you don't really need cards, especially not lots of
>them, to play VTES.
You don't. Notice that Kenneth simply asked a question without making
assumptions, UNLIKE certain other posters who lead off their post with
"this is so unfair you have to have millions of dollars to play V:TES".
And not surprisingly, Kenneth not only didn't get flamed, he got some
useful answers. Certain other posters got flamed instead, because they
obviously weren't asking questions, they were just bitching.
>> Do people buy
>> there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
>> they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like to
>> know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.>
>Many cards are available from various sources as singles or for trade; there are
>some cards, however, that - despite repeated claims to the contrary - you have
>about as much chance of acquiring this way as a snowflake in hell.
You have made no effort to acquire these cards.
>Maybe with the upcoming Camarilla set, this will change.]
You're a clever one, aren't you? Use your head.
Oh, but you also forgot in your list: the Giovanni have Potence, so you
could also use the Giovanni starter as a source of convenient Potence
stuff.
>> I have totally come to love this game, even though I've only been playing
>> for a few months. But, it's really killing my finances ( No short-term
>> investment cards can be played in real life)>
>If you can locate some Jyhad boxes for cheap, that's probably the best way to
>go... unfortunately, you'd probably have to order them from the US, so S&H and
>import tax will up the effective price considerably.
Potomac's price for Jyhad booster boxes is, as of 4/11/2001:
Jyhad: Booster $59
The days of cheap Jyhad boosters are over. All those who kept playing
the game when WotC abandoned their support for it, and who bought the
boxes for $5 each, hoping that the game would come back?
... This is your reward.
--
"There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.
In message <ZeTt8.2715$%P4.2...@news01.chello.no>,
"Kenneth Kristiansen" <ken...@chello.no> mumbled something about:
>Thanks guys... I'll concentrate on playing the game for now, and save up for
>some boxes..
Until the Camarilla set comes out, focus on buying starter boxes. If
you don't have any Final Nights stuff, buy a box of those starters.
You'll only get vampires from four clans, but what you WILL get is:
OBF/CEL -- from the Assamite starters
POT/DOM -- from the Giovanni starters
OBF/PRE -- from the Setite starters
ANI/FOR -- from the Ravnos starters
This obviously won't give you ALL the disciplines in the game, but it
will go a long way towards filling in holes in your collection with some
useful commons (Carrion Crows, Song of Serenity) and even some handy
rares (Daring the Dawn). You also get one Blood Doll per starter, as
well as multiple useful Masters that have been tossed in.
Potomac's price from 4/11/2002 is:
Vampire: TES Final Nights Precon. $49
...Well within affordable range.
Oh, and that reminds me: I think I posted 4/11/2001 in my previous
message. That should obviously be 4/11/2002.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>Do people buy
> there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
> they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother..
I have got all the needed cards by buying about one box of each expansion
and doing much trading. Trading is really important if you don't have much
???/$$$$ to spend on cards.
>I'd really like to
> know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
Never counted on them, but not much.
- Guzmo
Derek Ray wrote:
> >Maybe with the upcoming Camarilla set, this will change.]
>
> You're a clever one, aren't you? Use your head.
>
> Oh, but you also forgot in your list: the Giovanni have Potence, so you
> could also use the Giovanni starter as a source of convenient Potence
> stuff.
As compared to the !Brujah starter, it does lack Torn Signpost, which is an extremely
useful card for pot combat, being cycled pre-range (chance to draw IG) and unlike
Increased Strength giving it's bonus even if one was unlucky enough not to draw a pot
strike (or built a cel/pot deck).
Also, when I say pot decks are curently difficult to assemble for new players I take
into consideration that there are *no* current boosters from which to draw IG or TS
(the one's he'd see in deck lists when considering if he's anywhhere near building
decks like that) which might not hurt a smartass that has plenty of them, but might
just happen to hurt someone from Norway who just might not be able to get the same
starter by the shitload.
Thomas
"Kenneth Kristiansen" <ken...@chello.no> wrote in message
news:3kFt8.2669$%P4.2...@news01.chello.no...
> Hi,
>
> When checking out winning decks on the net, I find that they have been
> constructed with a lot of duplicates. Sometimes up to 8-9 of the same
cards
> or Vampires.. I know there is a card limit in some tourney's, but what I'd
> like to know is... I have bought like 1000 cards over the past month, but
> I'm nowhere near putting together anything like those decks.. Do people
buy
> there cards in singles, or do they just buy like a million boosters? Or do
> they form player-groups and trade/borrow from eachother.. I'd really like
to
> know how many cards the average tournament player has in his collection.
I do a lot of trading in my play groups ( mainly rares ) and players with
large collections will also generally give away commons that you'll find
useful. I personally have about 10,000 but I wouldn't say I'm the average
player. You can also buy commons and uncommons from ppl cheap ( like 5c a
common ).
Also a good way to save money is to stick to certain disciplines/clans and
trade away the rest.
One of the best things about this game is that you can build quite effective
decks with minimal or no rares at all.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Thomas Pichler wrote:
>
> Also, when I say pot decks are curently difficult to assemble for new players I take
> into consideration that there are *no* current boosters from which to draw IG or TS
> (the one's he'd see in deck lists when considering if he's anywhhere near building
> decks like that) which might not hurt a smartass that has plenty of them, but might
> just happen to hurt someone from Norway who just might not be able to get the same
> starter by the shitload.
Depends on what you consider "current", I guess. Sabbat War boosters do have Immortal
Grapples, though not Torn Signposts. He'd even have a 1-in-100 shot at drawing a
Disarm. (Not to mention Twisting the Knife. It may never get reprinted again after
the reception we gave it last time around. :-P )
Fred
Frederick Scott wrote:
> Thomas Pichler wrote:
> >
> > Also, when I say pot decks are curently difficult to assemble for new players I take
> > into consideration that there are *no* current boosters from which to draw IG or TS
> > (the one's he'd see in deck lists when considering if he's anywhhere near building
> > decks like that) which might not hurt a smartass that has plenty of them, but might
> > just happen to hurt someone from Norway who just might not be able to get the same
> > starter by the shitload.
>
> Depends on what you consider "current", I guess. Sabbat War boosters do have Immortal
> Grapples,
True, my mistake... still doesn't help over the lack of "+x strength" cards in the current
boosters. Fire in the Blood, sure, but it's a 1:100 and ToS is often better at POT for
just that one extra point on round 1 (it deals more effectively with 2-cap weenies, for
starters, torping them in one round).
> He'd even have a 1-in-100 shot at drawing a Disarm.
Wish him luck :)
Thomas