rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Titanium Rules

15 messages from 11 participants · 25 September 2008 – 29 September 2008
original thread on Google Groups

XZealot

Having tested the titanium rules out with much success. I would like to present it to everyone If and when a player would like to leave the game prior to being ousted and all players can agree to it the following happens. Where the leaving player's pool total is x, the predator of the player leaving gain 6- ((x/30) * 6 rounded up) pool and 1 victory point if x <= 10 Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

LSJ

XZealot wrote: > Having tested the titanium rules out with much success. I would like > to present it to everyone > > If and when a player would like to leave the game prior to being > ousted and all players can agree to it the following happens. Where "the following" is anything at all. That is, any remedy "all players can agree to" is sufficient, by definition. It is indeed the default "titanium" rule currently in use (if a player has to scoop, then fix the situation as best you (the remaining players) can). I think what you're looking for is some sort of a priori agreement that all players have by default at the beginning of every game. The unfortunate side effect of such an agreement is a large disconnect with the actual game state at scoop time (projecting the many-dimensional game state to a one-dimensional space ("scooper's pool total") loses a great deal of information). [ quoted text not captured ]

XZealot

On Sep 25, 11:38 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > XZealot wrote: > > Having tested the titanium rules out with much success. I would like > > to present it to everyone > > > If and when a player would like to leave the game prior to being > > ousted and all players can agree to it the following happens. > > Where "the following" is anything at all. > > That is, any remedy "all players can agree to" is sufficient, by definition. > > It is indeed the default "titanium" rule currently in use (if a player has to > scoop, then fix the situation as best you (the remaining players) can). > > I think what you're looking for is some sort of a priori agreement that all > players have by default at the beginning of every game. > > The unfortunate side effect of such an agreement is a large disconnect with the > actual game state at scoop time (projecting the many-dimensional game state to a > one-dimensional space ("scooper's pool total") loses a great deal of information). Yes, you're exactly right. I am looking to postulate a rule that would quickly, cleanly and easily help judges rule and games digest the unfortunate occurrence when a player leaves the game without being ousted. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jeff Kuta

[ quoted text not captured ] COLLUSION! The 1 VP section is what bothers me the most. If you're preying on your buddy and need the VPs and he's got to leave anyway, there's nothing to stop him from transferring below 10 pool and just taking off, giving you a quick VP and some pool, even if you did absolutely nothing to him as a predator. Perhaps if the player who "left" also was disallowed any further participation in the event. Perhaps if it was only 0.5 VPs <10 pool, and only 1.0 VPs < 5 pool. Still, it's very difficult to assess what motivation might be going on behind the scenes. I'm still a fan of the good old "pool sack" because it gives the table time to adjust to the new situation with one less methuselah and more or less gives the predator of the pool sack free reign to do whatever they want to oust their prey. It make it harder on combat decks which may rely on Fame or other cards to do pool damage. But maybe there is a way to deal with that too (first rush action in a turn done against a phantom minion does 1 pool damage, second in a turn does 2 and so on or something). Keep trying. There's got to be a decent solution out there. Jeff

LSJ

Jeff Kuta wrote: > Perhaps if the player who "left" also was disallowed any further > participation in the event. There is no "the event". Norm's making a suggestion for friendly games.

Chris Berger

[ quoted text not captured ] That's what I thought, but Norm mentions "judges" above. For friendly games, this rule makes some sense. For an event with judges, having a rule that covers the situation where a player leaves in the middle of a game is a bad precedent, IMHO - makes it seem like that's an acceptable thing to do.

Jozxyqk

XZealot <xze...@cox.net> wrote: > Having tested the titanium rules out with much success. I would like > to present it to everyone > If and when a player would like to leave the game prior to being > ousted and all players can agree to it the following happens. > Where the leaving player's pool total is x, the predator of the player > leaving gain 6- ((x/30) * 6 rounded up) pool > and 1 victory point if x <= 10 And what if the leaving player happens to have more than 30 pool? Does the former predator lose pool? (He probably deserves it!)

niko...@hotmail.com

On 25 Sep., 20:57, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Thats a new cool way of backousting! :)

ira...@gmail.com

On Sep 25, 9:03 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Having tested the titanium rules out with much success. I would like > to present it to everyone > > If and when a player would like to leave the game prior to being > ousted and all players can agree to it the following happens. > > Where the leaving player's pool total is x, the predator of the player > leaving gain 6- ((x/30) * 6 rounded up) pool > > and 1 victory point if x <= 10 > > Comments Welcome, I know we've discussed a lot of these issues already, and for a friendly game, I think it doesn't really matter - because it's a friendly game, so do whatever you want. I think the more interesting situation is at a tournament, where a judge needs to use his or her judgement and make a ruling. As LSJ and others noted, simply looking at pool total loses too much information to be reliably fair. For what it's worth to other judges out there, my general approach is: Given A->B->C->D->E, and C needs to leave, then: 1) Look at how close C was to being ousted. If very close (like 1-2 turns away), then likely poolsack (or some other similar solution of B was a dragonbound combat deck, or a brinksmanship mill deck.) 2) If C was more than 2 turns away from being ousted, then compare the relative strength of C and D. If D is weaker, then B gets no bonus. If D is stronger than C, then give some bonus to B in terms of pool (but not VPs, since C was more than 2 turns away from being ousted anyway.) 3) If B is stronger than C and there won't be a poolsack, consider giving D some benefit (like pool or blood on vamps) due to having a suddenly stronger predator. Obviously there are a lot of conditions, and that's what makes this so tricky to judge. I think the best learning will come from case studies and discussion. Maybe we will never reach a consensus, but at least you'll know what tools are at your disposal (poolsack and awarding VPs or partial VPS are just two of many things you could do as a judge.) Overall, the goal is to maintain the same balance as before the player had to leave (which is probably impossible, but you might be able to come close.) That's what I would do, and how I would approach the issue. Ira

xcver

On 25 Sep., 19:14, Jeff Kuta <jeff.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm still a fan of the good old "pool sack" because it gives the table > time to adjust to the new situation with one less methuselah and more > or less gives the predator of the pool sack free reign to do whatever > they want to oust their prey. It make it harder on combat decks which > may rely on Fame or other cards to do pool damage. But maybe there is > a way to deal with that too (first rush action in a turn done against > a phantom minion does 1 pool damage, second in a turn does 2 and so on > or something). > > Keep trying. There's got to be a decent solution out there. > > Jeff I don't like poolsacking. Yesterday we had a game where one player left at 21 pool! his predator would've needed at least 6 turns to do that during which the predator of the gone player (me :) would have no pressure from behind whatsoever. IMO poolsacking at >10 pool hurts the predator of the player that leaves and benefits his prey so much that it definitely is not an option.

XZealot

[ quoted text not captured ] that or a punch in the nuts....

XZealot

On Sep 25, 12:14 pm, Jeff Kuta <jeff.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sep 25, 9:03 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > Having tested the titanium rules out with much success. I would like > > to present it to everyone > > > If and when a player would like to leave the game prior to being > > ousted and all players can agree to it the following happens. > > > Where the leaving player's pool total is x, the predator of the player > > leaving gain 6- ((x/30) * 6 rounded up) pool > > > and 1 victory point if x <= 10 > > > Comments Welcome, > > Norman S. Brown, Jr > > XZealot > > Archon of the Swamp > > COLLUSION! > > The 1 VP section is what bothers me the most. If you're preying on > your buddy and need the VPs and he's got to leave anyway, there's > nothing to stop him from transferring below 10 pool and just taking > off, giving you a quick VP and some pool, even if you did absolutely > nothing to him as a predator. What's to stop him from transferring down to zero pool? > Perhaps if the player who "left" also was disallowed any further > participation in the event. Perhaps if it was only 0.5 VPs <10 pool, > and only 1.0 VPs < 5 pool. Still, it's very difficult to assess what > motivation might be going on behind the scenes. Well, if he is leaving then you would think that wouldn't be an issue ....since he is "leaving". > I'm still a fan of the good old "pool sack" because it gives the table > time to adjust to the new situation with one less methuselah and more > or less gives the predator of the pool sack free reign to do whatever > they want to oust their prey. It make it harder on combat decks which > may rely on Fame or other cards to do pool damage. But maybe there is > a way to deal with that too (first rush action in a turn done against > a phantom minion does 1 pool damage, second in a turn does 2 and so on > or something). Pool sack just fucks the grandprey of the poolsack, as the grandprey's predator only has to worry about one player.

Shockwave

Instead of a clever mathematical formula.... Take normal oust benefits, halve them. 0.5 VP, 3 Pool. Works fine for us. *Shrug*

simcof

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, pool sacking happened to me in a tournament because the guy wanted to go smoke some weed.... I was in a strong position, he basically cost me the game. It can be very annoying in a tournament when people don't play to win. simcof

librarian

[ quoted text not captured ] Apparently, to some folks, that's broken... best - chris -- Super Fun Cards www.superfuncards.com *NEW Website!* auct...@superfuncards.com