[LSJ] Cold Aura question

This came up over Brisbane's Holiday VtES session, concerning Cold Aura. Fortunately, it did not diminish our holiday cheer. Cold Aura Card Text: [nec] Only usable before range is determined. Set the range for this round to long. [NEC] As above, with an optional press, only usable to end combat. Every other card I could find that sets range (e.g. Cailean, Immortal Grapple, Grasp the Python (heh, heh, heh), Sniper Rifle, Selective Silence, Storm Sewers) explicitly says "skip the determine range step". Cold Aura does NOT say "skip the determine range step". I posit that that means that you can maneuver to close (at the appropriate phase) after your opponent plays Cold Aura to set range to long. Am I correct?

[ quoted text not captured ] No. That would be called a maneuver, not setting range. Once set, the range cannot be changed.

[ quoted text not captured ] > Once set, the range cannot be changed.- Fair enough. Out of curiosity, then, why bother including in the first place the explicit "skip the determine range step" in other cards with similar effects, including Sniper Rifles reprinted in the KoT Toreador precon?

[ quoted text not captured ] Reminder text. As a rule, reminder text does not invalidate a ruling in the case of cards printed without that reminder text.

On Dec 27, 9:58 pm, Jon D <jon.dar...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I posit that that means that you can maneuver to close (at the > appropriate phase) after your opponent plays Cold Aura to set range to > long. Am I correct? This has already been answered, but just as a point of clarification, check out Fear of the Void Below for a counterexample of card text that works as you thought Cold Aura does. John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] Would the addition of "(or something you control)." to the basic "targeting you" be considered reminder text? Examples: Shemti Black Sunrise Forced Vigilance

brandons...@yahoo.com wrote: > Would the addition of "(or something you control)." to the basic > "targeting you" be considered reminder text? Yes.

On Dec 28, 2:17 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Ok, thanks! Brandon

A couple of other questions/comments came to mind. > > Cold Aura Card Text: > > > [nec] Only usable before range is determined. Set the range for this > > round to long. > > > [NEC] As above, with an optional press, only usable to end combat. > > > Every other card I could find that sets range (e.g. Cailean, Immortal > > Grapple, Grasp the Python (heh, heh, heh), Sniper Rifle, Selective > > Silence, Storm Sewers) explicitly says "skip the determine range > > step". Cold Aura does NOT say "skip the determine range step". > > > I posit that that means that you can maneuver to close (at the > > appropriate phase) after your opponent plays Cold Aura to set range to > > long. Am I correct? > > No. That would be called a maneuver, not setting range. Not precisely true. "That" could be played under the effects of Drawing Out the Beast or Lapse (basic temporis level), whereas a maneuver cannot. > > Once set, the range cannot be changed.- Hide quoted text - This is the important bit. I have no problem with this ruling, except I couldn't find it in the rulebook or the list of rulings before I made my original post. Could it be added in a future version of the rulebook? cheers, Jon

[ quoted text not captured ] Sure, but when a ruling isn't explicit, it is difficult to distinguish reminder text from functional text.

[ quoted text not captured ] http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=rulings # If an effect "sets" the range of a round (and therefore skips the maneuver phase), no other effect can be used to reset the range. [RTR 19970630] although again, the parentheses in the ruling itself may serve to muddy the issue, since the Cold Aura neglects to mention the bit inside the ruling's parentheses. Although it could be read that this ruling means all effects that set range will then skip the maneuver phase. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email) "In *my* Assamite deck, this would pwn you in teh FAEC, so shut up." "Thats only cos u've never sene mi Gionavvi PUNCHnMUCNH u asshat." - James Coupe

[ quoted text not captured ] The ruling is explicit. Official Rulings, ruling made per rules team review in 1997: "If an effect "sets" the range of a round (and therefore skips the maneuver phase), no other effect can be used to reset the range." Thus effects that set the range also inherently skip the maneuver phase (and it cannot be reset, per 11-year old official ruling. -John Flournoy

> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=rulings > > # If an effect "sets" the range of a round (and therefore skips the > maneuver phase), no other effect can be used to reset the range. [RTR > 19970630] Oops :) Thanks for bringing that to my attention! > > although again, the parentheses in the ruling itself may serve to muddy > the issue, since the Cold Aura neglects to mention the bit inside the > ruling's parentheses. The parenthetical "and therefore" bit suggests that it's already a given that "set range" effects skip the maneuvering phase. It's a bit circular, since the only official ruling I could find that supports that assumption is...the statement itself. > > Although it could be read that this ruling means all effects that set > range will then skip the maneuver phase. That was my original problem. There were at least two contradictory "it could be read that..." sort of arguments, but nothing official. Now I know the official ruling, but it'd be nice if it were displayed a little more prominently w/o having to scour the internet.