New Promo Vamps in Sabbat War?

Hi, I just would like to know if Lucita and Sasha Vycos will be included in Sabbat War (what would prevent them from being Promo Vamps)? Thanks, -mArkUS

Markus Schlein wrote: > I just would like to know if Lucita and Sasha Vycos will be included in > Sabbat War (what would prevent them from being Promo Vamps)? They are - each will appear in the appropriate pre-con starter deck. Nothing can prevent Lucita from being a promo vamp - she has already appeared in Inquest and been handed out at Dragon*Con. Nothing will likely prevent Sascha from being a promo card - the magazines it will appear in are already at press. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ schrieb: > Nothing can prevent Lucita from being a promo vamp - she has already > appeared in Inquest and been handed out at Dragon*Con. > Nothing will likely prevent Sascha from being a promo card - the > magazines it will appear in are already at press. > V:EKN Tournament Rules > B. Appendix B - Definition of Terms > Promo Card: Any playable card that is released by the manufacturer > separate of any given card set. I thought Promo cards are promo cards, because they come separated from any set. Just a thought. -markus

In article <39E46DA0...@gmx.de>, [ quoted text not captured ] They still are promos, since they are being released outside of a set, but they are not promo only. So instead of having to buy the set you can get the two promo vamps by only buying the magazine they appear in. Joe Churchill - V:EKN Prince of Columbia, SC Editor: Tzimisce Clan Newsletter www.warghoul.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Markus Schlein wrote: > > V:EKN Tournament Rules > > B. Appendix B - Definition of Terms > > > Promo Card: Any playable card that is released by the manufacturer > > separate of any given card set. > > I thought Promo cards are promo cards, because they come separated from > any set. Promo cards are any cards that are used in promotional ways, for example, cards that are handed out at conventions or printed in industry-related magazines, etc. As Lucita was release in the Inquest magazine (separate from any set) and was handed out at Dragon*Con (separate of any set), she meets the V:EKN definition of "Promo card" as well. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <39E4704D...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > As Lucita was release in the Inquest magazine (separate from any set) >and was handed out at Dragon*Con (separate of any set), she meets the >V:EKN definition of "Promo card" as well. But since any player can get them withing the Sabbat War set, it's a very less interesting promo card then a promo card that you reveive only at tournament or special event... Bye, Khaleph Alendis, High Priest of Maizerets VEKN Setite Prince of Beauport http://www.oricom.ca/melkor/khaleph/ [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > As Lucita was release in the Inquest magazine (separate from any set) > and was handed out at Dragon*Con (separate of any set), she meets the > V:EKN definition of "Promo card" as well. Had I known that Lucita would be included in the Lasombra pre-con deck as well, there's no way in hell that I would have bought multiple Inquests to acquire them. Esp. since the card is pretty much unusable without sleeves...and I f**king hate card sleeves as it makes shuffling the cards a pain in the ass. Since Sascha Vykos is going to be in the Inquest magazine at the same time she's going to be released in the main product line, what's the point? I'm certainly not going to make another mistake of buying Inquest magazines to get a card that I'll end up getting anyway. Dan Murdock and Violette Prentiss were genuine incentives because you could _only_ get them by either buying the novels or going to tournaments. I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. Regards, Noal McDonald Prince/Priscus of Metro Detroit, MI -- "I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species, of pure sons of bitches." --Faulkner, "The Mansion" [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Had I known that Lucita would be included in the Lasombra pre-con deck > as well, there's no way in hell that I would have bought multiple > Inquests to acquire them. Same here. > Dan Murdock and Violette Prentiss And who? What happened to Mariana... > I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. Perhaps so. I happen to still be grateful for all that they are doing for us, and can forgive a little short-sightedness. Perhaps there is a distinction between the Promo release and the regular release? Then it will be still a difference. Will VEKN Prince of Reno -- "The bittersweet Caress of a chill Eternity blazens my sword with dark flames of retribution." [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8s20t2$cl4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. > i completely agree the definition af a promo card is a card that is not availble in regular sets i feel somewhat screwed Menno > Regards, > Noal McDonald > Prince/Priscus of Metro Detroit, MI > -- > "I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from > what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species, > of pure sons of bitches." > --Faulkner, "The Mansion" > [ quoted text not captured ]

Lord Darksword <lord_dar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > Dan Murdock and Violette Prentiss > > And who? What happened to Mariana... I misspoke myself. I meant Mariana Gilbert. Noal [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Khaleph Alendis wrote: > But since any player can get them withing the Sabbat War set, it's a > very less interesting promo card then a promo card that you reveive > only at tournament or special event... Or just go out and buy a magazine for..... Buy in magazine or buy in booster. Hmm... the difference is just, well, shocking. Immensely so. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "And all the while I'm thinking things that I can never share with him. I'm a bundle of confusion, yet it has a strange appeal. Did it all begin with him and the way he makes me feel?"

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Noal McDonald wrote: > Had I known that Lucita would be included in the Lasombra pre-con deck > as well, there's no way in hell that I would have bought multiple > Inquests to acquire them. Esp. since the card is pretty much unusable > without sleeves...and I f**king hate card sleeves as it makes shuffling > the cards a pain in the ass. My understanding of the situation is this: 1) Lucita and Vykos were both intended to be promo-only, never appearing in the base set (a la Marianna). 2) A problem with the printing of Lucita caused her to be slightly over-size. I'm told this is a problem with the way you can cut card, with two different systems meaning that more or less is taken off, depending on which you choose. The wrong one was used, by accident. 3) Because of that, it was decided to put Lucita in the War in order to allow all players to have copies of her which were perfectly legal. This was not intended when she was first printed 4) As a result of 3), it was decided to put Vykos in as well. (Arbitrary? Better card ratios? No point not to? Consistency (well, I know I can get Lucita, so surely I can get her in the boosters)? - whatever, I don't know). [ quoted text not captured ]

I agree 100%. I feel 1. cheated cause I bought Lucita for the price of 2 or 3 boosters 2. relieved that I hear about this before the release Of Vykos "Promo card" meant something since Mariana & Dan. If it now means something else, it would have been fair to warn the players/customers. I remember asking about this when Lucita was released, and I think there was no answer at the time. No hard feelings, but this is disapointing. Mat

In article <8s26bk$hm2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, mfgr...@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <8s20t2$cl4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > > > I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. > > > i completely agree > the definition af a promo card is a card that is not availble in regular > sets > i feel somewhat screwed > Menno Not to rain on the parade, but I am just happy that they are printing the first new cards in like 4 years! I agree that it would have been nice to have advanced knowledge that the cards would be general issue, but it is not that big. The "Promo" cards have enough differneces that rabid collectors (similar to myself) will still want them. Plus, they are some good vampires. I am pretty sure the idea behind the promo card was not to put out something collectable as much as to spread the work that Jyhad, er V:TES, is back. I think it will work quite well. On a side note, I hate limited promo cards, I think all cards should be pretty easy to get. I am very glad that both L and S will be in decks. Just my thoughts. McEWEn tHe MaD Malkavian Elder of Toledo P.S. Noal, I will see if I can find some other collectors that will trade for your "promo" Lucitas. > > Regards, > > Noal McDonald > > Prince/Priscus of Metro Detroit, MI [ quoted text not captured ]

"Mat" <No....@webmails.com> wrote in message news:39E4B527...@webmails.com... > I agree 100%. I feel > 1. cheated cause I bought Lucita for the price of 2 or 3 boosters > 2. relieved that I hear about this before the release Of Vykos Hey...I paid more than the price of the magazine after it was announced that Lucita was going to be in the regular set...intentionally. I wanted a copy of the card just because. I have to agree with McEwen the Mad that I'm positively thrilled that *any* cards are going to be printed...at all! Getting all wound up about spending a few dollars that might have been better spent on something else seems a just a little cranky to me. I mean, the magazine cost what...US$4 or $5? Not a big deal unless you're living hand-to-mouth. And then perhaps you shouldn't be playing CCGs at the moment, huh? As well, it's nice that people who didn't get a chance to buy the magazine aren't going to get screwed out of getting a couple of nice vampires. "Oh, sorry...you don't read gaming magazines, you lose..." On the other hand, not buying the magazine with the next vampire is perfectly valid, and will likely let White Wolf know (in a less subtle, pocketbook-oriented way) that perhaps this wasn't the best tactic ever. However, I will bet that a lot of players that didn't know V:tES was making a comeback were smacked over the head with the card and the article...hopefully at least winning us a few new players. Xian -- I'd tell the world and save my soul, But rain falls down and I feel cold. A cold that sleeps within my heart, It tears the earth and sun apart. --_Shellshock_, New Order www.waste.org/~xian

In article <39E4B527...@webmails.com>, Mat <No....@webmails.com> wrote: > I agree 100%. I feel > 1. cheated cause I bought Lucita for the price of 2 or 3 boosters > 2. relieved that I hear about this before the release Of Vykos > > "Promo card" meant something since Mariana & Dan. If it now means > something else, it would have been fair to warn the players/customers. I > remember asking about this when Lucita was released, and I think there > was no answer at the time. No hard feelings, but this is disapointing. > > Mat > I saw quite a few questions about it as well and never any answer, so as I see it they deliberately wanted to hide the fact, which is disappointing to say the least. Since Inquest isn't sold anywhere near I live, I had to order it from Stockholm and with shipping and stuff it costed me over $10 for one card *sigh*. It's not the whole world, but it was quite wasted sicne I could care less for the mag itself and where I study I'm not able to play, so I couldn't use it either. I won't be able to until x-mas and then SW is out already. I just hope WW learns from this "mistake". Of course I'm realy thankful the SW is release, but that's not what this is really about. When asked if Lucita was going to be in SW they could have answered. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > I have to agree with McEwen the Mad that I'm positively thrilled > that *any* cards are going to be printed...at all! Don't get me wrong. So am I. However, that doesn't prevent me from pointing out the mistakes they are making in the hope that they will not repeat them. > Getting all wound up about spending a few dollars that might have > been better spent on something else seems a just a little cranky > to me. The point isn't about the money. The point is about the correct way to distribute promotional material. I'm sure that Inquest was less than thrilled that the card was released in general issue. That means there is no incentive for rabid VTES players to buy Inquest magazines, much less multiples of them. I'm also irritated because Lucita and Sascha are now completely worthless cards for promoting tournaments. Would you be thrilled if, back in the old days, WotC had sent you a pack of Anvil cards to promote a tournament? > On the other hand, not buying the magazine with the next vampire > is perfectly valid, and will likely let White Wolf know (in a > less subtle, pocketbook-oriented way) that perhaps this wasn't the > best tactic ever. Telling them outright is also a perfectly valid way of letting them know that they should have handled this better. It's clear, concise and it doesn't leave them scrathing their heads wondering, "Why?" > However, I will bet that a lot of players that didn't know V:tES > was making a comeback were smacked over the head with the card > and the article...hopefully at least winning us a few new players. Distributing Lucita and Sascha _only_ through Inquest (and tournaments) would have accomplished the same thing. Regards, Noal -- "I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species, of pure sons of bitches." --Faulkner, "The Mansion" [ quoted text not captured ]

"Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8s2k2a$ub8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... [happy about SW] > Don't get me wrong. So am I. Well, I wasn't poking at you Noal... > However, that doesn't prevent me from pointing out the mistakes they are > making in the hope that they will not repeat them. And I can't imagine you *not* taking an opportunity to point out mistakes. :) > I'm also irritated because Lucita and Sascha are now completely > worthless cards for promoting tournaments. Would you be thrilled if, > back in the old days, WotC had sent you a pack of Anvil cards to promote > a tournament? Point taken. > Telling them outright is also a perfectly valid way of letting them know > that they should have handled this better. It's clear, concise and it > doesn't leave them scrathing their heads wondering, "Why?" I wasn't saying this shouldn't be done as well, but I suspect that the furor caused on the newsgroup has already been noted... [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian wrote: > > "Mat" <No....@webmails.com> wrote in message > news:39E4B527...@webmails.com... > > I agree 100%. I feel > > 1. cheated cause I bought Lucita for the price of 2 or 3 boosters > > 2. relieved that I hear about this before the release Of Vykos > > Hey...I paid more than the price of the magazine after it was announced that > Lucita was going to be in the regular set...intentionally. I wanted a copy of > the card just because. Great. You had a choice, you took a decision. I'm saying that not telling people *what* the choice actually is (buy Inquest or buy a deck) is a Bad Thing (tm). I dunno about you, but the booklet that came with Lucita, the one with the bright title and all the pretty ads, was 100% useless to me, so I'd rather have had a deck, thank you. > I have to agree with McEwen the Mad that I'm positively thrilled that *any* > cards are going to be printed...at all! So am I. > Getting all wound up about spending a few dollars that might have been better > spent on something else seems a just a little cranky to me. I mean, the > magazine cost what...US$4 or $5? Not a big deal unless you're living > hand-to-mouth. And then perhaps you shouldn't be playing CCGs at the moment, > huh? It's cruel of you to mention it. Bad Xian. > As well, it's nice that people who didn't get a chance to buy the > magazine aren't going to get screwed out of getting a couple of nice vampires. > "Oh, sorry...you don't read gaming magazines, you lose..." You don't lose, you knowingly decide whether tou want Lucita bad enough to trade for it or to buy it. I own one Mariana & one Dan, and I got them easily that way. > On the other hand, not buying the magazine with the next vampire is perfectly > valid, and will likely let White Wolf know (in a less subtle, > pocketbook-oriented way) that perhaps this wasn't the best tactic ever. > > However, I will bet that a lot of players that didn't know V:tES was making a > comeback were smacked over the head with the card and the article...hopefully > at least winning us a few new players. If I was the kind of guy who's suspicious about WWGS's "purity" when it comes to marketing tactics, I'd say that selling lots of Inquest sends a message to retailers: "Order Sabbat Wars!". If WWGS loudly announces that Lucita will be available as 1/12th of a crypt in precons, less Inquest are sold. Fortunately, I'm not that kind of guy. Honest. I'll buy a Clan Novel to prove it, I swear. Mat

In article <8s20t2$cl4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: [Complaing about promo cards being in the set snipped] >I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. Huh!? You _like_ having to go track down and buys copies of magazines you aren't interested in in order to get all the cards? -Jasper

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Xian wrote: > > I'm also irritated because Lucita and Sascha are now completely > > worthless cards for promoting tournaments. Would you be thrilled if, > > back in the old days, WotC had sent you a pack of Anvil cards to promote > > a tournament? > > Point taken. In theory, and entirely hypothetical: As a result of this, White Wolf may decide that printing a copy of *another* vampire in the clan novels may be a good idea. Clearly, they were of the opinion that they could afford to print Lucita without the rest of the expansion (i.e. the first time round), so this is not beyond the realms of possibility. This, IMO, would be a Good Thing (tm). [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: >>I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. > jas...@spock.peak.org (Jasper Phillips) wrote: > Huh!? You _like_ having to go track down and buys copies of magazines > you aren't interested in in order to get all the cards? Apparently, you are completely ignorant of the nature of _promotional_ materials. Lucita and Sascha are now completely useless as a means to promote tournaments or, yes, sell magazines. I couldn't really care less how many Inquests get sold, but Lucita and Sascha _would_ have made excellent incentive for someone to go to a tournament to acquire them. The more people that show up to tournaments, esp. in stores, the higher the profile of the game...and that's a good thing. Now Sascha and Lucita have all the promotional impact of Anvil. Whoop-de-doo. Noal McDonald Prince of Metro Detroit, MI [ quoted text not captured ]

(Noal opines:) > Lucita and Sascha are now completely useless as a means to promote > tournaments or, yes, sell magazines. I couldn't really care less how > many Inquests get sold, but Lucita and Sascha _would_ have made > excellent incentive for someone to go to a tournament to acquire them. > The more people that show up to tournaments, esp. in stores, the higher > the profile of the game...and that's a good thing. > > Now Sascha and Lucita have all the promotional impact of Anvil. > Whoop-de-doo. Hey. Anvil is a very good vampire. : ) While it does not reverse your point about the mass- availability of Lucita and Vykos, the fact that they may only be available in the Pre-Constructed decks (and not likely in multiples) makes me glad I acquired a few Lucitas early. I'm not planning to purchase more than one box of the PCDs (two each of each clan). Thus, I've got Lucitas to spare for trading to new players, which I hope will be incentive on a smaller playgroup level. (This is assuming that Lucita and Vykos are only going to be released in the PCDs... but now that I think of it, I don't know where I read that...) -hmmm. Matt

In article <8s4el7$c88$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > >> Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > >>I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. > > > jas...@spock.peak.org (Jasper Phillips) wrote: > > Huh!? You _like_ having to go track down and buys copies of magazines > > you aren't interested in in order to get all the cards? > > Apparently, you are completely ignorant of the nature of _promotional_ > materials. > > Lucita and Sascha are now completely useless as a means to promote > tournaments or, yes, sell magazines. Were they intended to sell magazines or tournaments? Or were they intended to let people who subscribe to those magazines and don't read this ng that more V:TES is being printed, and yes, it is good. I couldn't really care less how > many Inquests get sold, but Lucita and Sascha _would_ have made > excellent incentive for someone to go to a tournament to acquire them. > The more people that show up to tournaments, esp. in stores, the higher > the profile of the game...and that's a good thing. Perhaps we shall see limited run promo cards for tournaments if the set is as successful as I hope it shall be. -- --Arkham : The Blackened Hatter ( ark...@SPAMFREEhowling.com ) [ quoted text not captured ]

Arkham <ark...@my-deja.com> wrote: >> Lucita and Sascha are now completely useless as a means to >> promote tournaments or, yes, sell magazines. > > Were they intended to sell magazines or tournaments? Or were they > intended to let people who subscribe to those magazines and don't > read this ng that more V:TES is being printed, and yes, it is good. As I mentioned before, distributing Lucita and Sascha _only_ as promotional materials through Inquest and tournaments would accomplish both. Noal McDonald -- "I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species, of pure sons of bitches." --Faulkner, "The Mansion" [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8s4el7$c88$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: >>> Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: >>>I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. > >> jas...@spock.peak.org (Jasper Phillips) wrote: >> Huh!? You _like_ having to go track down and buys copies of magazines >> you aren't interested in in order to get all the cards? > >Apparently, you are completely ignorant of the nature of _promotional_ >materials. Apparently! I always thought of it as advertisement. >Lucita and Sascha are now completely useless as a means to promote >tournaments or, yes, sell magazines. I couldn't really care less how >many Inquests get sold, but Lucita and Sascha _would_ have made >excellent incentive for someone to go to a tournament to acquire them. >The more people that show up to tournaments, esp. in stores, the higher >the profile of the game...and that's a good thing. I guess it boggles my mind that a card can be an incentive for someone to go to a tournament. I mean either you have fun playing the game or you don't, right? >Now Sascha and Lucita have all the promotional impact of Anvil. >Whoop-de-doo. I guess for me the it's the opposite effect. Cards that are hard to enough to get to merit some sort of odd desireability as you describe make me frown, not smile. I'd far prefer such cards have the "promotional impact of Anvil", and definitely think WW has done the right thing. In any event, since when has Jyhad had promotional cards that are actually hard to get? I feel such cards in general are bad for game balance and fairness, and honestly don't care one whit what a collector feels about it.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Noal McDonald wrote: > As I mentioned before, distributing Lucita and Sascha _only_ as > promotional materials through Inquest and tournaments would accomplish > both. Not really. Well, kind of. Anyone who wanted a copy could just buy a magazine. With a magazine at, say, 5 dollars, it's a cheaper way than going to a tournament, paying a similarly priced entry fee *and* having to give up your day to play in the tournament. They *do*, however, make good toys for newbies who have only just joined and never had the opportunity to get them because they weren't playing when they were released. For anyone who did want them when they were released, magazine vs. tournament is about the same. [ quoted text not captured ]

> since when has Jyhad had promotional cards that are actually hard to get? Now if Dan Murdock and Mariana Gilbert are so easy to get, I'd love to trade them from you. If you have none to trade away it shouldn't be so hard to get some for me would it? :) Drop me an email and let me know what cards you are looking for! (I'm serious) [ quoted text not captured ]

"cantila" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message news:8s50ro$tf7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > Now if Dan Murdock and Mariana Gilbert are so easy to get, I'd love to > trade them from you. I don't know about the current availability, but for a long time, they were available from Wizards of the Coast simply by writing a letter that included a self-addressed, stamped envelope. That's how I got mine, as a matter of fact... Though I suspect WotC has been out of stock for a year or so. And I doubt if *they're* still giving them away... [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <XFqF5.1099$tA6.2...@news.uswest.net>, "Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > > "cantila" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message > news:8s50ro$tf7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > > Now if Dan Murdock and Mariana Gilbert are so easy to get, I'd love to > > trade them from you. > > I don't know about the current availability, but for a long time, they were > available from Wizards of the Coast simply by writing a letter that included a > self-addressed, stamped envelope. That's how I got mine, as a matter of > fact... > Yeah I knew this, but it's pretty hard to get a US-stamped envelope in Sweden :( > Though I suspect WotC has been out of stock for a year or so. And I doubt if > *they're* still giving them away... > > Xian > > -- > I'd tell the world and save my soul, But rain falls down and I feel cold. > A cold that sleeps within my heart, It tears the earth and sun apart. > --_Shellshock_, New Order > www.waste.org/~xian > > [ quoted text not captured ]

Jasper Phillips wrote: > In article <8s4el7$c88$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > >Lucita and Sascha are now completely useless as a means to promote > >tournaments or, yes, sell magazines. I couldn't really care less how > >many Inquests get sold, but Lucita and Sascha _would_ have made > >excellent incentive for someone to go to a tournament to acquire them. > >The more people that show up to tournaments, esp. in stores, the higher > >the profile of the game...and that's a good thing. > > I guess it boggles my mind that a card can be an incentive for someone > to go to a tournament. I mean either you have fun playing the game or you > don't, right? I don't necessarily agree with Noal that limited availability promos are a way for White Wolf to go. But I had to comment on this. Surely this can *NOT* "boggle your mind". I mean, it's one thing to say that you don't require a limited-edition promo card to be encouraged to play at a tournament. Even that you don't think highly of people who's motivation isn't sufficient to attend just by getting the chance to compete and play lots of games. But surely you don't think everyone in the world sees things the way you see them? Some people don't like tournaments for lots of reasons: too much pressure, opposing decks are too hardcore and less imaginative, having to play with the same deck over and over, inconvenient time and place, no break between games if you're in one that goes the limit, stuff like that. A limited-edition promo might be just the throwin to get the tournament attendence up more. (Of course, these kinds of reasons that people don't like tournaments may also demonstrate why it's not nice to make such folk attend to have any chance of getting a cool promo. But at least I've made the point I posted to make.) > >Now Sascha and Lucita have all the promotional impact of Anvil. > >Whoop-de-doo. > > I guess for me the it's the opposite effect. Cards that are hard to enough > to get to merit some sort of odd desireability as you describe make me > frown, not smile. Yea, this I can agree with. That's kind of my concern about them, too. Fred

Xian wrote: > "cantila" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message > news:8s50ro$tf7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > > Now if Dan Murdock and Mariana Gilbert are so easy to get, I'd love to > > trade them from you. > > I don't know about the current availability, but for a long time, they were > available from Wizards of the Coast simply by writing a letter that included a > self-addressed, stamped envelope. That's how I got mine, as a matter of > fact... Actually, WotC wasn't very stable about honoring that. I sent off such a letter and one or two friends did too and never got a response. Some months later, other people reported receiving theirs in the mail, so apparently they hadn't run out yet. Had it not be for Mark Korshavn, I would never have gotten one. That is definately *not* a good way to distribute promos, however one may feel about their value. Fred

On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, cantila wrote: > Yeah I knew this, but it's pretty hard to get a US-stamped envelope in > Sweden :( Virtually every country has or has had an equivalent of the International Reply Coupon. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.0010131053300.11892- 100...@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk>, [ quoted text not captured ] I've never even heard the existance of a such before. Maybe we have it, but now it's too late to check out anyway :( [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Mat wrote: > I agree 100%. I feel > 1. cheated cause I bought Lucita for the price of 2 or 3 boosters Why? Did someone tell you it was worth 2 or 3 boosters? Not at all. The magazine cost exactly the same as if there was no Lucita in it. > 2. relieved that I hear about this before the release Of Vykos > > "Promo card" meant something since Mariana & Dan. Yes. It meant a card that is given away as a FREE bonus to World-of Darkness novel readers, in the hopes of getting them interested in V:tES, and made available FREE to V:tES players for the cost of a stamped self-addressed envelope. Where did you get from this the idea that they were supposed to be some sort of valuable investment? -- John Whelan

On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Noal McDonald wrote: > Apparently, you are completely ignorant of the nature of _promotional_ > materials. Don't scoff too loud. Apparently you have overlooked an aspect ot their "nature" yourself. > Lucita and Sascha are now completely useless as a means to promote > tournaments or, yes, sell magazines. Ever consider that it is intended as advertising for the *game*, and not as advertising for magazines, or tournaments? -- John Whelan

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Noal McDonald wrote: > Had I known that Lucita would be included in the Lasombra pre-con deck > as well, there's no way in hell that I would have bought multiple > Inquests to acquire them. Esp. since the card is pretty much unusable > without sleeves...and I f**king hate card sleeves as it makes shuffling > the cards a pain in the ass. Perhaps, but I see no need for White Wolf to cater to the investment-minded players. If there is demand for a card, it should be made available. That is what serves the good of the many. > Since Sascha Vykos is going to be in the Inquest magazine at the same > time she's going to be released in the main product line, what's the > point? I'm certainly not going to make another mistake of buying Inquest > magazines to get a card that I'll end up getting anyway. In that case, you have nothing to complain about with respect to Sascha Vykos. If an individual buys Inquest anyway, the card is a nice bonus. As far as I know, there was never any claim that the card itself was worth the cost of the magazine. > Dan Murdock and > Violette Prentiss were genuine incentives because you could _only_ get > them by either buying the novels or going to tournaments. You seem to have the idea that the cards were printed to "promote" the novels and magazines, and get fanatic Jyhad players to buy the novels and magazines. But perhaps the idea was more to promote interest in V:tES among non-VTES players who read the novels and buy the magazines. > I'm sorry, but White Wolf really dropped the ball on this one. If this is the biggest ball they "drop", I will sing their praises. In the history of V:tES screwups, this isn't even small potatoes, it's a grain of tapioca. -- John Whelan

John Whelan wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Mat wrote: > > > I agree 100%. I feel > > 1. cheated cause I bought Lucita for the price of 2 or 3 boosters > > Why? Did someone tell you it was worth 2 or 3 boosters? Not at all. The > magazine cost exactly the same as if there was no Lucita in it. Taht's the price of the magazine in France (more than 30FF). What I bought was Lucita, wrapped along with a nice Sailormoon card and a totally worthless magazine. I could have waited, and buy Lucita along with nice VtES card I have some use for. I didn't because the information WWGS released did not advertise the change in promo card politics. > > 2. relieved that I hear about this before the release Of Vykos > > > > "Promo card" meant something since Mariana & Dan. > > Yes. It meant a card that is given away as a FREE bonus to World-of > Darkness novel readers, in the hopes of getting them interested in V:tES, > and made available FREE to V:tES players for the cost of a stamped > self-addressed envelope. It also meant a card not included in other sets, thus you had to do one of the above to get them. So you did. Which you don't need to do now to get Lucita. But they didn't tell. Are you willing to understand me? > Where did you get from this the idea that they were supposed to be some > sort of valuable investment? You must be confusing me with another poster. What makes you think I'd want to "invest" in a CCG ? I'm into this game for fun. I simply wanted a Lucita. Too bad some people chose not to advertise that I could get a much better deal that 30FF for a single card. Is this what you mean by "investment"? I call it trying to stay in good terms with my banker. Real Life (tm) has rules, too. Happy gaming still, Mat

Mat <no....@webmails.com> wrote: >John Whelan wrote: >> >> On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Mat wrote: >> >> > I agree 100%. I feel >> > 1. cheated cause I bought Lucita for the price of 2 or 3 boosters >> >> Why? Did someone tell you it was worth 2 or 3 boosters? Not at all. The >> magazine cost exactly the same as if there was no Lucita in it. > Taht's the price of the magazine in France (more than 30FF). What I >bought was Lucita, wrapped along with a nice Sailormoon card and a >totally worthless magazine. I could have waited, and buy Lucita along >with nice VtES card I have some use for. I didn't because the >information WWGS released did not advertise the change in promo card >politics. >> > 2. relieved that I hear about this before the release Of Vykos >> > >> > "Promo card" meant something since Mariana & Dan. >> >> Yes. It meant a card that is given away as a FREE bonus to World-of >> Darkness novel readers, in the hopes of getting them interested in V:tES, >> and made available FREE to V:tES players for the cost of a stamped >> self-addressed envelope. > It also meant a card not included in other sets, thus you had to do one >of the above to get them. So you did. Which you don't need to do now to >get Lucita. But they didn't tell. Are you willing to understand me? > This, I am sad to say, is often the (literal) price for getting up to the minute information from White Wolf. THey are changing their strategy for release on this game, and working like screaming banshees to get it out on time. Things change in a heartbeat. So all of a suddden, you can soon get Lucita in a Lasombra preconstructed starter. This is hardly the result of a malicious 'bait and switch' on WW's part, as you seem to imply. You say "they didn't tell". You assume they knew when they put the card in the mag. You're wrong on that count, IMNSHO. >> Where did you get from this the idea that they were supposed to be some >> sort of valuable investment? > You must be confusing me with another poster. What makes you think I'd >want to "invest" in a CCG ? I'm into this game for fun. I simply wanted >a Lucita. Too bad some people chose not to advertise that I could get a >much better deal that 30FF for a single card. Is this what you mean by >"investment"? I call it trying to stay in good terms with my banker. >Real Life (tm) has rules, too. > Happy gaming still, > Mat Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver

> > If this is the biggest ball they "drop", I will sing their praises. In > the history of V:tES screwups, this isn't even small potatoes, it's a > grain of tapioca. > > -- John Whelan > Ditto. -- "The bittersweet Caress of a chill Eternity blazens my sword with dark flames of retribution." [ quoted text not captured ]

Hey, Mr White Wolf, if you're hearing us... Why, for instance, not make a different lucita for the set ? the same vampire with an alternate illustration and voila, you've got two different cards : promo and regular. everybody should agree: they can play the vampire, and the promo flavor is still there reyda

[ quoted text not captured ] Erm, "everybody" is a dangerous term. There are a number of people for whom promos are not necessarily a Good Thing. I also note that with, oh, ten days left before pre-releases start, it seems unlikely. [ quoted text not captured ]

Reyda wrote: > Hey, Mr White Wolf, if you're hearing us... > Why, for instance, not make a different lucita for the set ? I think the answer is that the cards have already been printed, wrapped, boxed, and are probably sitting in distributor warehouses about now. Other than that, no problem. (Just a tad too late...) Fred