Obedience Q for LSJ

Bleu and I are having a little lover's tiff about Obedience. Here is the situation: Navar calls a vote of Rumours of Gehenna. Bleu, my grand-prey, blocks using Eagles' Sight [superior] and the Rumour Mill - the blocking minion is Aleph. His intercept now equals my stealth, so the block is successful. Now, I believe that once it is determined that the block is successful, Aleph is tapped. Thus, he may not now play Obedience, as he is not about to enter combat with Navar until it is sure that the action is indeed blocked, and at that point he is tapped and unable to play reaction cards. Bleu has a different view. Who is right?

In article <not.available-0...@sm1-132.hs.port.ac.uk>, Legbiter <not.av...@your.security.clearance> wrote: >Bleu and I are having a little lover's tiff about Obedience. Here is the >situation: [can a blocker play Obedience upon successful block, before combat?] Bleu is right -- you play Obedience just before combat begins (per card text). Note also the clause (VtES text): "Instead of entering combat, this vampire remains untapped" which implies that it is the act of entering combat which taps a blocking vampire. I'm sure that LSJ will correct me if I'm completely off base, but I think the above is correct. gomi -- Sure, she may be a nuisance for a while, but then you kill her and go on with your life. - hamblin at math wisc edu

In article <not.available-0...@sm1-132.hs.port.ac.uk>, not.av...@your.security.clearance (Legbiter) wrote: > > Bleu and I are having a little lover's tiff about Obedience. Here is the > situation: > > Navar calls a vote of Rumours of Gehenna. Bleu, my grand-prey, blocks > using Eagles' Sight [superior] and the Rumour Mill - the blocking minion > is Aleph. His intercept now equals my stealth, so the block is successful. > > Now, I believe that once it is determined that the block is successful, > Aleph is tapped. Thus, he may not now play Obedience, as he is not about > to enter combat with Navar until it is sure that the action is indeed > blocked, and at that point he is tapped and unable to play reaction cards. > Bleu has a different view. Who is right? Obedience can be played. Card texts are notoriously inconsistent when dealing with the timing of tapping to block (see Change of Target, Elder Impersonation, etc.) The Outline attempts to clear up the timing: III. HOW TO PERFORM ACTIONS [...] F. Complete Action. [...] 3. If Action was blocked the Action is unsuccessful and blocked. a. Play any Action modifier or Reaction cards which can be played after an Action is blocked. [RTR] b. Tap Blocking Minion. [13.3.1] c. Resolve Combat. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Searchable database of official card text, errata, and rulings: http://deckserver.net/cgi-deckserver/rulemonger.cgi/powersearch -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > > In article <not.available-0...@sm1-132.hs.port.ac.uk>, > Legbiter <not.av...@your.security.clearance> wrote: > >Bleu and I are having a little lover's tiff about Obedience. Here is the > >situation: > > [can a blocker play Obedience upon successful block, before combat?] > > Bleu is right -- you play Obedience just before combat begins (per > card text). Note also the clause (VtES text): > > "Instead of entering combat, this vampire remains untapped" > > which implies that it is the act of entering combat which taps a > blocking vampire. > > I'm sure that LSJ will correct me if I'm completely off base, but I think the > above is correct. You got the right answer (Obedience can be played when you block), but the "act of entering combat taps a blocking vampire" is slightly misleading. The act of blocking is what taps the vampire (and is what causes him to enter combat), and there is time to play action modifiers and reaction cards after determining that the block is successful (i.e., acting vampire doesn't wish to increase his stealth or otherwise cause the block to fail) before the blocker is tapped and combat begins. [ quoted text not captured ]

Chris Shorb & Tammy Martin wrote: > LSJ wrote: > > The Outline attempts to clear up the timing: > > > > III. HOW TO PERFORM ACTIONS > > [...] > > F. Complete Action. > > [...] > > 3. If Action was blocked the Action is unsuccessful and blocked. > > a. Play any Action modifier or Reaction cards which can be played after > > an Action is blocked. [RTR] > > b. Tap Blocking Minion. [13.3.1] > > c. Resolve Combat. > > Thus an Obedience would be played before a Thoughts Betrayed, I assume. Yes - as would any other Reaction card or Action Modfier. Combat cards can only be played in combat (this includes TB, which is played "as combat is entered"), while Action Modifiers and Reaction cards cannot be played during combat. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: : > > III. HOW TO PERFORM ACTIONS : > > [...] : > > F. Complete Action. : > > [...] : > > 3. If Action was blocked the Action is unsuccessful and blocked. : > > a. Play any Action modifier or Reaction cards which can be played after : > > an Action is blocked. [RTR] : > > b. Tap Blocking Minion. [13.3.1] : > > c. Resolve Combat. This reminds me of an issue from the June 23 set of rulings that had me confused. The new Cat's Guidance entry (working from memory) said that you now play CG after combat, because combat is now considered to be part of the block. My conclusion (after thinking about it a little) was that the new 'combat is the last step in the block' rule meant that vampires did not become tapped until combat had been completed (since otherwise Cat's Guidance would not be playable after combat, since a tapped vamp can't play Cat's Guidance). Was that conclusion incorrect, and either CG should be played before the combat or it should have text saying that it can be played by a tapped vampire or some such? Thanks, Josh jt...@cornell.edu