Fun with Golconda

-> Hmm... what if I played a deck that included, along with survival -> apparatus (bleed bounces, S:CE), 20 Golconda -- Inner Peace and 20 -> Soul Gems of Etrius? And let's say all the vampires in my crypt were -> age 7, except for a couple of Ansons. So I'd bring one out, slap a -> skill card on it, equip it, and nuke it for eight blood next turn. -> Few decks can deal with a player gaining eight blood every two -> turns... (thanks to Info Highway) This deck could get twice as gross with a few alterations... add some Minion Taps to take 6 blood off the vamp before you burn it!

TONY RICARDI (tony.r...@swcbbs.com) wrote: : -> Hmm... what if I played a deck that included, along with survival [ quoted text not captured ] Do you agree with my larger point, that Jyhad can become a money game like MtG if you want it to? (Point of information: I own 1 Soul Gem and no Golcondas, so this is an intellectual exercise for me.) - Neil -- nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus... in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro

-> : -> Hmm... what if I played a deck that included, along with -> survival : -> apparatus (bleed bounces, S:CE), 20 Golconda -- Inner -> Peace and 20 : -> Soul Gems of Etrius? And let's say all the vampires -> in my crypt were : -> age 7, except for a couple of Ansons. So I'd -> bring one out, slap a : -> skill card on it, equip it, and nuke it -> for eight blood next turn. : -> Few decks can deal with a player -> gaining eight blood every two : -> turns... (thanks to Info Highway) -> : This deck could get twice as gross with a few alterations... add -> some : Minion Taps to take 6 blood off the vamp before you burn it! -> -> Do you agree with my larger point, that Jyhad can become a money game -> like MtG if you want it to? (Point of information: I own 1 Soul Gem -> and no Golcondas, so this is an intellectual exercise for me.) Well, the above example does show that if someone buys 100 boxes, thus aquiring far more copies of a rare than WotC intended one person to have, a degenerate can can be built. Whether this or any degenerate deck will win a given game is up in the air. I think that Jyhad has a money element to it, but to a far lesser degree than MtG. A well constructed, or even decently constructed Magic deck with Moxen, Time Walk, etc. *WILL*, repeat, will, beat a deck without them. Jyhad has almost no 'I win' cards. In fact, the only 'gotta have it' card I can think of is half a dozen Wakes.

I don't think that deck would be terribly disgusting. Sure, the combo itself is fun. But having a deck relying on this isn't incredible. Anyone who expects this deck will put in a Sould Gem of their own or play with a steal equipment or the like.

Eric Wohlstadter (ez04...@dale.ucdavis.edu) wrote: : A couple points: : 1. Too many decks can deal with someone gaining 8 blood every two turns. : Basically any deck with dominate can. Either you have little guys with : skill cards or big guys with superior. Both decks can bleed for usually 10 : a turn if you don't deflect or block. As I said, on top of the Golcondas and the Soul Gems, enough bleed bounce and S:CE. : 2. A maxxed out Freak Drive deck will not be bothered by Bum's Rush. The : right combination of Freak Drives, Restorations, and Laptops can oust : enough people to win the game before people have time to kill Camille, : Badger etc.. Remember that you don't need to kill everyone to win the : game. I suppose a 7 player game would be hard but I don't see too many of : these. Freak Drive, as Curt has pointed out, is equally degenerate. Besides, if you add Minion Taps, the Golconda/Soul Gem combo becomes even sicker. [ quoted text not captured ]

Hi Niel, Actually, this brings up an interesting point. The card text on Soul Gem says that if the vampire is younger it comes in to play at full blood capacity, and if it is older it just shows up in your uncontrolled region and the Soul Gem is burnt, but what happens if the vampire is the same age, ie. both seven capacity? Has this question ever been answered? Algustas *****These are the times that try men's souls.***** Thomas Paine On 22 Oct 1995, Neil Bernstein wrote: > TONY RICARDI (tony.r...@swcbbs.com) wrote: > : -> Hmm... what if I played a deck that included, along with survival > : -> apparatus (bleed bounces, S:CE), 20 Golconda -- Inner Peace and 20 > : -> Soul Gems of Etrius? And let's say all the vampires in my crypt were > : -> age 7, except for a couple of Ansons. So I'd bring one out, slap a > : -> skill card on it, equip it, and nuke it for eight blood next turn. > : -> Few decks can deal with a player gaining eight blood every two > : -> turns... (thanks to Info Highway) > : This deck could get twice as gross with a few alterations... add some > : Minion Taps to take 6 blood off the vamp before you burn it! > > Do you agree with my larger point, that Jyhad can become a money game like > MtG if you want it to? (Point of information: I own 1 Soul Gem and no > Golcondas, so this is an intellectual exercise for me.) > [ quoted text not captured ]

The Corrupter (sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu) wrote: I wrote: : > But nothing beats Combat Ends except for Immortal Grapple, which is a rare. : > Last I checked at my local game store, it goes for $5. You'd think if Majesty : > is a common its hoser should be common too. : Ah, but only presence counters presence? (Or as you actually mean, vote : w/ S:CE, Neil and I have been arguing this for awhile :) BTW, sorry you : were offended by my repost Neil, I didn't think it would offend you since : it was nonpersonal.) No problem: just simple nettiquette. : Auspex: Fast Reactions. They can't S:CE. Skin of Steel. Costs the vampire the same as a Majesty untap. : Potence: Immortal Grapple (I think this is the right one). They can't S:CE. Yes, and it's a $5 rare. Majesty is a ten-cent common. Then they just Skin of Steel. : Obfuscate: Hidden Lurker. They can't S:CE. See Auspex. : Celerity: Psyche. They need two S:CE to actually get out of the combat. Skin of Steel. : Brujah: CELERITY, *Presence*, POTENCE : Gangrel: Animalism, Fortitude, Protean (They're limited to intercept, but : they can untap [EarthMeld,Animalism,Wake]) : Malkavian: AUSPEX, Dominate, OBFUSCATE : Nosferatue: OBFUSCATE, Animalism, POTENCE : Toreador: AUSPEC, CELERITY, *Presence* : Tremere: AUSPEX, Dominate, Thaumaturgy : Ventrue: Dominate, Fortitude, *Presence* : Only the Gangrel have no defence against Presence and : the Ventrue can counter-Presence. The Gangrel are amazing untappers and : need only +1 intercept to stop the vote. : No problem. Fine. Be my prey playing without Presence. I'll play a KRC deck. Let's see what happens. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, TONY RICARDI wrote: > -> Hmm... what if I played a deck that included, along with survival > -> apparatus (bleed bounces, S:CE), 20 Golconda -- Inner Peace and 20 > -> Soul Gems of Etrius? And let's say all the vampires in my crypt were > -> age 7, except for a couple of Ansons. So I'd bring one out, slap a > -> skill card on it, equip it, and nuke it for eight blood next turn. > -> Few decks can deal with a player gaining eight blood every two > -> turns... (thanks to Info Highway) If blood gain is your goal, vote decks are the way to go... I played a vote deck recently based mostly on titled vamps that gained as much as 20 blood per turn. My crypt consisted of 3 Justicars (Brujah, Ventrue, Toreador), 6 Princes (Brujah, Ventrue, Toreador), and 3 relatively small vamps with superior presence. I know what you're thinking... gonna be a nasty majesty deck... Well, Majesty is the combat defense for this deck, but our play group restricts Majesty so that when you majesty, you can't do the same type of action again (can't call more than one vote of any kind, etc..) This way Majesty remains powerful, but it's not as abusive. The primary method of blood gain for this deck is Minion Taps. Over half of my master cards were Minion Taps. Then the Vampires filled back up with either 5th tradition or voter captivation. Most of my votes passed by enough to gain me two pool and still fill my vampires up. I also put 2 progenys and 3 embraces in along with 5 presence skill cards. Occasionally my Brujah predator would pummel a couple of my Minions into torpor, but with all my votes I was same from diablerie attempts, and I had so many minions out that retrieving vamps from torpor wasn't a problem. The focus of this deck was blood gain, so about half of my votes were Consanguenious Boon. Anyway, I don't have my cards with me, but I can post my deck if anyone wants me to. --------- Paul Schaaf sch...@u.washington.edu

TONY RICARDI (tony.r...@swcbbs.com) wrote: : A vampire of the same age is treated as is he was older (errata). Really? Is this errata just for SG of E, or does it apply to cards like Seduction too? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <46o4dn$5...@amhux3.amherst.edu>, nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu (Neil Bernstein) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Seduction isn't as much of an issue as it is spelled out a little more explicitly on the card. At normal level you can only name a younger vamp. Same age is not younger so no seduction. At superior you can name any vamp. Obedience works similarly. There is a restriction that the vamp must be younger to use it, so same age will not work. I hope this helps stephen hi...@mail.utexas.edu

Paul Schaaf (sch...@u.washington.edu) wrote: : The primary method of blood gain for this deck is Minion Taps. Over half : of my master cards were Minion Taps. Then the Vampires filled back up : with either 5th tradition or voter captivation. Curt Adams and others have proposed restrictions to 5th Tradition: the P/J can't do it to himself, otherwise the associated cost makes no sense. Were you playing "fill yourself up"? [ quoted text not captured ]

-> : A vampire of the same age is treated as is he was older (errata). -> Really? Is this errata just for SG of E, or does it apply to cards -> like Seduction too? I was refering to SGE... I don't have a Seduction in front of me, but it refers to a 'younger' vampire, so I think the same age is a no-go, but I could be wrong...

In article <8B3B329.00CA...@swcbbs.com>, tony.r...@swcbbs.com (TONY RICARDI) wrote: > -> Actually, this brings up an interesting point. The card text on Soul > -> Gem says that if the vampire is younger it comes in to play at full > -> blood capacity, and if it is older it just shows up in your > -> uncontrolled region and the Soul Gem is burnt, but what happens if > -> the vampire is the same age, ie. both seven capacity? Has this > -> question ever been answered? > > A vampire of the same age is treated as is he was older (errata). > > The deck in question, though, put a skill card on the vampire before it > was hit with Golconda. With all the vamps in the deck being capacity 7, > this assures that the new vamp is younger. > > (Truly sick thought; make the crypt 12 copies of the *same* capacity 7 > vampire...) Why stop at twelve. Why not 30 to 60 (I've seen this deck before. It is vicious, though it never ousts anyone, it could be modified to do it.) 60 Anson's = roughly 14 pool a turn till out of Golconda or Anson's. "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan "<insert favorite quote here>" # $ sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu -<insert name of those quoted here> @ @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ GAT/CS/O/WS d-(---) h++ s: a--- C(+++) UX+>+++$ P+ L E- W+>++ N++(+) o?> K+>++++ w--->? O? M++ V-->? PS+(-+) PE&++&- Y+>++ PGP(--) t 5->? X++&-- R+++&* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ DI D(+)&--- G+>+++ e+*>++++ h(+) r(+) y*+? /* Version 3.1 */ @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ Spoutingly yours 8^)

-> > The deck in question, though, put a skill card on the vampire -> before it > was hit with Golconda. With all the vamps in the deck -> being capacity 7, > this assures that the new vamp is younger. -> > -> > (Truly sick thought; make the crypt 12 copies of the *same* -> capacity 7 > vampire...) -> -> Why stop at twelve. Why not 30 to 60 (I've seen this deck before. -> It is vicious, though it never ousts anyone, it could be modified to -> do it.) 60 Anson's = roughly 14 pool a turn till out of Golconda or -> Anson's. And, let's make this deck the pinnacle of sickness by slipping a Rumors of Gehenna through. Beteen this and He Of the Foot Long Tongue, we get three masters per turn. Skill card, Minion Tap, Golconda, EACH TURN. 16 blood, EACH TURN.

Andrew Richter (aric...@news.acns.nwu.edu) wrote: : Neil Bernstein (nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu) wrote: : > Curt Adams and others have proposed restrictions to 5th Tradition: the P/J : > can't do it to himself, otherwise the associated cost makes no sense. Were : > you playing "fill yourself up"? : It does make a difference that it costs a blood if you are blocked...a big : difference, considering that most vamps that are trying to be hospitable to : themselves are rather low on blood at the time. Unsuccesful actions are not paid for: (From the Comprehensive Rules Guide) D. If Action was not blocked then the Action is resolved. [14 Item 4)] 1. Pay cost associated with Action. 2. Resolve Action (resolve vote if Political Action). 3. If Minion was playing an Action card that has no duration then the Action card is burned. [RMc] This rule _is_ sorta hidden in the little rules book, but it's there. Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time, tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant

Andrew Richter (aric...@news.acns.nwu.edu) wrote: : It does make a difference that it costs a blood if you are blocked...a big : difference, considering that most vamps that are trying to be hospitable to : themselves are rather low on blood at the time. You don't pay the blood cost of actions which are blocked, do you? [ quoted text not captured ]

Andrew Richter (aric...@news.acns.nwu.edu) wrote: : It does make a difference that it costs a blood if you are blocked...a big : difference, considering that most vamps that are trying to be hospitable to : themselves are rather low on blood at the time. You don't have to pay the blood cost of an action which has been blocked, [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <46rcrl$o...@tribune.usask.ca>, tra...@duke.usask.ca (Shane Travis) writes: >Unsuccesful actions are not paid for: > >(From the Comprehensive Rules Guide) > > D. If Action was not blocked then the Action is resolved. [14 Item 4)] > 1. Pay cost associated with Action. > 2. Resolve Action (resolve vote if Political Action). > 3. If Minion was playing an Action card that has no duration then the > Action card is burned. [RMc] I think someone brought up the point of action modifier costs not being paid if the action is blocked some time ago, and I don't remember it being answered. And what about reaction costs not being paid if the block fails? ~Biomechanoid

nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu (Neil Bernstein) wrote: -> Algustas (cfr...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) wrote: ->> Hi Niel, ->> Actually, this brings up an interesting point. The card text on Soul ->> Gem says that if the vampire is younger it comes in to play at full ->> blood capacity, and if it is older it just shows up in your uncontrolled ->> region and the Soul Gem is burnt, but what happens if the vampire is ->> the same age, ie. both seven capacity? Has this question ever been ->> answered? -> Then the Soul Gem is burnt. Which is why I said originally, bring out -> a seven, slap a master on it, Minion Tap it, Golconda it. If you get -> an Anson out, the process speeds up considerably. But actually Anson -> might be a risk (since you might draw him once you Golconda'd). So get -> a bunch of age 7 PRINCES and pass a Rumors of Gehenna on yourself. Rumors of Gehenna is also problematic since it is easily "unpassed" by others calling a vote to burn it using Presence modifiers. --- Eric Pettersen pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (NeXTmail capable)

Neil Bernstein <nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu> wrote: >: A vampire of the same age is treated as is he was older (errata). >Really? Is this errata just for SG of E, or does it apply to cards like >Seduction too? It's just errata for the Soul Gem. As far as I remember, there aren't any other cards that mention relative age ambiguously/incompletely. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

tony.r...@swcbbs.com (TONY RICARDI) wrote: >-> : A vampire of the same age is treated as is he was older (errata). >-> Really? Is this errata just for SG of E, or does it apply to cards like Seduction too? >I was refering to SGE... I don't have a Seduction in front of me, but it refers to a 'younger' vampire, so I think the same age is a no-go, but I >could be wrong... Seduction is no problem from this point of view, since its superior version says " The same, but name _any_ vampire ", including IMO also the one of the same age. So, you need superior Dominate to use it on a Vampire of the same age. -- Luca "Democritus" Consoli Web page: http://imoax1.unimo.it/~consoli/ |-------------------------------------------| |" S'i fossi foco arderei lo mondo..." | |{ Were I Fire, I would burn the world..." |------------| | (Cecco Angiolieri, Italian poet)| |--------------------------------------------------------|