[LSJ] what is an "organizer" ?

We have a debate with some others organizers of events on the true definition of an "organizer", according to tournament rules. 1 ) An organizer is : Someone who help the head judges to handle the event ? Someone who is declared prior to the event as an organizer on the form send to WW ? Another definition my little brain cannot imagine :-)))) ? 2) If someone works on the methods to obtain the seating order (archon, or anything else), is he an organizer ? If not, what is he, according to the torunament rules ? I have understood that people in a tournament place can be divided in : Head judge Judges Organizer Players Audience. Is there another categorie i haven't find ? 3) If someone enter the results into the computer used to track down the players's performances, can he be called an organizer, without exageration ? 4) Can an organizer participate to a tournament ? (i suppose no, for the tournaments gathering more than twenty players, but on these troubled times, i probably loose my common sense sometimes...). 5) If an organizer participate to a tournament, and if it's forbidden by the vekn tournament rules, what is the penalties appropriated to such an event (i have searched, and find nothing sorry....;-))? Who have to suffer the penalties ? Who choose the penalties ? It's probably moot, but... Thanx in advance. Kamel SENNI, a.k.a. Kindred SPIRIT for the Kindred.

I think it would be more appropriate to discuss the balance between player involvement in the organisation of an event, and player participation in the same, said event. For larger events, I'm sure almost all Princes out there would seek out their local player base for assistance and support. The trouble is, most players would also want to limit their involvement so that they can play in the event once it gets going. And since most of us wouldn't be able to run things properly without their help, a level of compromise is inevitable. I don't see any reason why Princes can't use their own common sense and judgement when it comes to allowing involvement by particular players to a particular degree. The only complication is in regards to the player's access to sensitive material - i.e. player seating orders and deck lists. Even in a smaller more local event, player access to seating orders and/or decklists in advance could be considered a) an unfair advantage and possible b) sportsmanlike and thus we have take extra-special care. For bigger and more competitive events such as qualifiers (and the EC final obviously) great emphasis should be placed on keeping this senstive information out of the hands of anyone planning to play - and not doing so will (and has quite rightly so) caused much offence and consternation. Unfortunately vouchsafing for the trustworthiness of a particular player isn't necessarily going to be enough as far as other (especially non-local) players are concerned. Only by being particularly (and obviously) strict will we be able to avoid criticism and complaint. The terms of any player involvment in an event need to be clearly defined so that they can be explained if anybody asks before (or after) the fact. The other thing Princes should bear in mind is that debate and discussion by organisers/judges/helpers about event procedure, or about the behaviour of one or more players in attendance on the day should be handled our of sight/earshot of the other players in attendance. Again this is 'sensitive' information that needs to be carefully considered and controlled. I'm not sure whether we can formalise this consideration in the VEKN tournament floor rules/guidelines, but IMHO I think that cuts to the heart of the matter. Regards, Mike Nudd VEKN Prince of London "Kamel SENNI" <kamel...@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr> wrote in message news:1b066664.02120...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

Kamel SENNI wrote: > > We have a debate with some others organizers of events on the true > definition of an "organizer", according to tournament rules. > > 1 ) An organizer is : > Someone who help the head judges to handle the event ? > > Someone who is declared prior to the event as an organizer on the form > send to WW ? > > Another definition my little brain cannot imagine :-)))) ? Organizer: Someone who organizes the tournament. > 2) If someone works on the methods to obtain the seating order > (archon, or anything else), is he an organizer ? If not, what is he, > according to the torunament rules ? Not. He is not covered by the tournament rules. The rules do not address such a person, and place no restriction on such a person. > 3) If someone enter the results into the computer used to track down > the players's performances, can he be called an organizer, without > exageration ? He might be an oragnizer, but that would be unrelated to the fact that he did (or did not) record table results for one or more of the tables played. > 4) Can an organizer participate to a tournament ? (i suppose no, for > the tournaments gathering more than twenty players, but on these > troubled times, i probably loose my common sense sometimes...). This is covered explicitly in the tournament rules. > 5) If an organizer participate to a tournament, and if it's forbidden > by the vekn tournament rules, what is the penalties appropriated to > such an event (i have searched, and find nothing sorry....;-))? Who > have to suffer the penalties ? Who choose the penalties ? It's > probably moot, but... If the tournament rules are not followed, report it to the organizer or to the VEKN. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Mike Nudd" <mi...@vekn.org.uk> wrote in message news:<asqkl1$pai$1...@venus.btinternet.com>... > Unfortunately vouchsafing for the trustworthiness of a particular player > isn't necessarily going to be enough as far as other (especially non-local) > players are concerned. Only by being particularly (and obviously) strict > will we be able to avoid criticism and complaint. The terms of any player > involvment in an event need to be clearly defined so that they can be > explained if anybody asks before (or after) the fact. > > The other thing Princes should bear in mind is that debate and discussion by > organisers/judges/helpers about event procedure, or about the behaviour of > one or more players in attendance on the day should be handled our of > sight/earshot of the other players in attendance. Again this is 'sensitive' > information that needs to be carefully considered and controlled. > > I'm not sure whether we can formalise this consideration in the VEKN > tournament floor rules/guidelines, but IMHO I think that cuts to the heart > of the matter. Aggreed in all points, very balanced, and very well thinked. Carl P., could i respectfully suggest you, in your role of Board director of VEKN, to propose to all princes who organize international event, and in particular EC and EC qualifier, some guidelines on the organization of such event, following the recommandations of the prince of London ? Is others players on this newsgroups is oOK with this very balanced proposition? Commit an mistake is... a mistake, commit the same error twice in a row is a ...crime. Kamel SENNI.