Heya there ! :)
My first post on this newsgroup, so I guess I should introduce myself
with a few words.
I´m Magnus Knoblauch from Hamburg, Germany and I have played VTES for
two years by now. Hamburg still doesn´t have many VTES players, so if
someone from Hamburg who doesn´t know me is here, please mail me or
Ole Christianssen ( the current Prince of Hamburg ). My mail is
magn...@gmx.de and Oles mail is o.chris...@gmx.net.
I´m an old NG regular from rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks and
alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, so fire away if you think I post inane things,
I won´t faint from the shock. :P
Onwards to my question :
The question has come up at our table, if someone who sweeps the rest
of the table with one Anarchist Uprising/Ancilla Empowerment gains all
the victory points for this, or only the first one, for ousting his
prey.
Ole found the following ruling under point 9.1 in the manual :
>EXCEPTION: If a player is ousted at the same time that her prey is
ousted,
>the player gets the ante and victory point but does not gain six
pool.
He interprets it in the way that you get only the victory point for
your prey, and that you got to oust the other one by one to get their
victory points.
As I think that this would devalue AU/AE immensely ( two cards hard
enough to get through, as anybody at the table will want to stop them
normally ), I´d like to hear what you opinion of this situation. If
possible, a ruling by LSJ would be very appreciated.
Thanks !
Magnus
In message <70eabfe1.02060...@posting.google.com>, Magnus
<magn...@gmx.de> writes:
>The question has come up at our table, if someone who sweeps the rest
>of the table with one Anarchist Uprising/Ancilla Empowerment gains all
>the victory points for this, or only the first one, for ousting his
>prey.
Assuming a five player table.
A->B->C->D->E
A is the last person on the table, having called the Ancilla
Empowerment.
A receives one point for B dying.
B receives one point for C dying.
C receives one point for D dying.
D receives one point for E dying.
E receives no points because A was not ousted.
A receives one additional point for being last man standing.
A: 2
B: 1
C: 1
D: 1
E: 0
Under Vekn Rules, A is *also* the winner of a Game Win, under 3.8.1.
>Ole found the following ruling under point 9.1 in the manual :
For clarity, "ruling" is usually the term attributed to something given
out by LSJ. "Rule" is usually the term for something in the rulebook.
>>EXCEPTION: If a player is ousted at the same time that her prey is
>>ousted, the player gets the ante and victory point but does not gain
>>six
>>pool.
This is how it's played.
>He interprets it in the way that you get only the victory point for
>your prey, and that you got to oust the other one by one to get their
>victory points.
This is correct. Since B was ousted at the same time as C, B gets a
point. Since C was ousted at the same time as D... etc.
>As I think that this would devalue AU/AE immensely
This is how it has always been played. (With the exception of some
bizarre wording in the Jyhad rulebook.)
>( two cards hard
>enough to get through, as anybody at the table will want to stop them
>normally ),
The cards may be hard to get through, yes. However:
- they can do a *lot* of pool damage.
Consider a Kine Resources Contested. This can be a maximum of 4
damage. (Conservative Agitation will normally do between 2 and
5.) A maximum of 3 can be done against one Methuselah.
Ancilla Empowerment could do, say, 8 or 9 points of pool damage
against a weenie player, or someone who is playing a *lot* of
Embrace etc. in order to get more vampires out. (e.g. in a
Choir deck) It can also then a lot more to *other* players.
Assuming one weenie deck, and three vampires per other player,
that's an outcome of 20 pool damage.
The "self" damage is less of a concern, because the player
should be well aware of that and be planning for the relevant
pool gain in his deck.
- being able to gain 4 victory points in one action is seriously
powerful
As your grand-prey, I might be able to stop you getting at me
when you close on me. If you come closer to me, I might be able
to intercept a vote and take out your big voting vampire. The
dynamic of the game is that your prey is your immediate concern.
Everyone else has to watch out (sure), but you can only get the
victory point from your prey. Your grand prey then has their
own chance to defend against you, when you're his new predator.
Being able to snatch 4 victory points from around the table
*seriously* unbalances this stabilising mechanic.
- a sensible deck can plan for it.
Trade some pool with Succubus Club so that you can keep an ally
in, they don't oust. Maybe let them have one VP for their prey
dying, and then attack them. "This way, we both get some VPs
and we can then have a good go at a table win for either one of
us afterwards. Deal?"
Trade the pool around with a Parity Shift so that you get
everyone into a useful sequence. Your prey will die, your
grand-prey will have 1 pool left, so you get him on the next
action. That sort of thing.
All votes can be difficult. This one, by being indiscriminate,
is likely to invoke the wrath of some of the table, yes. Plan
for that, use it as a "final" card. (Perhaps store it on a
Storage Annex.) If you can't use it effectively, don't. Or put
a lot of vote support in your deck - Awe, Bewitching Oration,
Ventrue HQ, PB: Madrid (the voting Powerbase, anyway), the
Mausoleum, Business Pressure - whatever it takes and you can
afford.
In general, Conservative Agitation (if drawn reasonably early), Parity
Shift (in the right deck) and Kine Resources Contested are 'better'
cards. They can be more finely tuned, you don't hurt people you don't
want to, you can make deals.
Ancilla Empowerment has a *great deal* of damage potential. As a
result, its usefulness is tempered. Handle with care.
--
James Coupe
PGP 0x5D623D5D I am woman. Here, me raw.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2
13D7E668C3695D623D5D
James Coupe wrote:
> Magnus <magn...@gmx.de> writes:
> >The question has come up at our table, if someone who sweeps the rest
> >of the table with one Anarchist Uprising/Ancilla Empowerment gains all
> >the victory points for this, or only the first one, for ousting his
> >prey.
>
> Assuming a five player table.
>
> A->B->C->D->E
>
> A is the last person on the table, having called the Ancilla
> Empowerment.
>
> A receives one point for B dying.
> B receives one point for C dying.
> C receives one point for D dying.
> D receives one point for E dying.
> E receives no points because A was not ousted.
>
> A receives one additional point for being last man standing.
And, not that it matters, A receives 6 pool for ousting her prey.
The ousted Methuselahs do not receive 6 pool, even though they have
received 1 VP each for the ousting of their respective preys.
>
> A: 2
> B: 1
> C: 1
> D: 1
> E: 0
>
> Under Vekn Rules, A is *also* the winner of a Game Win, under 3.8.1.
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3CFB57C6...@white-wolf.com>...
> James Coupe wrote:
<snip>
Thanks to both of you for the clarification. Ok, that requires some
more foreplanning then for the politics deck... <g>
Magnus