rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

TOM: Q: Camarilla -> Non-Camarilla

15 messages from 10 participants · 06 June 1996 – 23 June 1996
original thread on Google Groups

L. Scott Johnson

Setup: Some N-C vampire equips with a Writ of Acceptance [AH], then does/gets a bunch of Cam-only stuff like: 1. Seizes Praxis (successfully) 2. Is named a Cam Exemplary 3. Is named an Archon Then, some other minion steals/destroys the Writ, revoking our hero's Camarilla status. 1. Is he still a Prince? 2. Is he still a Cam Exemplary? 3. Is he still an Archon? -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Make it idiot proof and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | someone will make a better Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | idiot.

Caliban Tiresias Darklock

On 6 Jun 1996 12:39:30 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >Setup: Some N-C vampire equips with a Writ of Acceptance [AH], >then does/gets a bunch of Cam-only stuff like: > >1. Seizes Praxis (successfully) >2. Is named a Cam Exemplary >3. Is named an Archon > >Then, some other minion steals/destroys the Writ, revoking our >hero's Camarilla status. > >1. Is he still a Prince? >2. Is he still a Cam Exemplary? >3. Is he still an Archon? Hairy question. My own feeling on this is that once such a Writ of Acceptance is accepted, it is useful *only* as a reminder to the rest of the players that this vampire has been accepted as a member of the Camarilla. Having never actually come across this card in play, however, I haven't read it and thus can't say for certain without reading what the card says.

Thomas R Wylie

I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to double check on that. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

mal...@macatawa.org

On 10 Jun 1996, Thomas R Wylie wrote: > I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would > keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to > double check on that. If Bill Clinton immigrates to Sweden, is he still the President?? -- mal...@macatawa.org Peter Lowe +=+=+ Edmonton, AB VtES web page available soon!

Daniel Hoffman

In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960611220535.10264K-100000@freenet> mal...@macatawa.org writes: >> I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would >> keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to >> double check on that. >If Bill Clinton emmigrates to Sweden, is he still the President?? If Bill Clinton's passport is stolen is he no longer a US citizen? The vampire isn't renouncing its camarilla status, it citizenship papers were stolen.

L. Scott Johnson

On 10 Jun 1996, Thomas R Wylie wrote: >>Setup: Some N-C vampire equips with a Writ of Acceptance [AH], >>then does/gets a bunch of Cam-only stuff like: >> >>1. Seizes Praxis (successfully) >>2. Is named a Cam Exemplary >>3. Is named an Archon >> >>Then, some other minion steals/destroys the Writ, revoking our >>hero's Camarilla status. >> >>1. Is he still a Prince? >>2. Is he still a Cam Exemplary? >>3. Is he still an Archon? > I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would > keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to > double check on that. -- First off, why is this different than something like Blood Bond, which cannot target a Prince, but won't cease functioning if the target eventually becomes a Prince? ---- Second, along the same lines, would a titled vamp still be a titled vamp if he impersonates another clan? 1. Justicar (recognized as either the Justicar of the new or original clan)? 2. Prince (probably, since princes are city-based)? 3. Primogen? 4. Inner Circle member? Would it make a difference if the impersonated clan was Non-Cam? Likewise, if the Impersonator was named a Justicar of the impersonated clan, and subsequently burned the Imperonation card, would he still be a Justicar? Would a vote-bearing Non-Cam be subject to the same rulings if he or she Impersonates a Camarilla clan? If the votes/titles are lost, are they regianed once the vampire ceases to impersonate. Or, if a title was gained while impersonating, would the vampire regain the title if he re-impersonated the clan after burning the first impersonation? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clan Impersonation (Action) 2 Blood Requires a ready vampire +1 stealth action Choose a clan when this card is played. Put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire is considered to be of the chosen clan instead of his or her original clan (if any). All options available to the chosen clans are now open to the acting vampire. This card may be burned by the vampire as an action. Illus. Max Shade Fellwalker -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Surly to bed, http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | surly to rise. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >On 10 Jun 1996, Thomas R Wylie wrote: >> I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would >> keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to >> double check on that. >-- >First off, why is this different than something like Blood Bond, which ^^^^^^^^^^ "Bloodhunt", that is. Blood Bond, of course, make no mention of Princes, et. al. Sorry. >cannot target a Prince, but won't cease functioning if the target >eventually becomes a Prince? [ quoted text not captured ]

mal...@macatawa.org

On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Daniel Hoffman wrote: > >> I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would > >> keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to > >> double check on that. > > >If Bill Clinton emmigrates to Sweden, is he still the President?? > > If Bill Clinton's passport is stolen is he no longer a US citizen? The > vampire isn't renouncing its camarilla status, it citizenship papers were > stolen. Ah, but if that's the case, we'd have to bring in rules for insurance ("My Ravnos steals your Ivory Bow" "That's OK; I have Allstate"). It could get even sillier ("My Tremere plays Theft of Vitae and steals a blod from you" "That's OK, I have Blue Cross"). If an Item is stolen, you should lose all benefits from that item, including any abilities and benefits it gave you (such as the ability to gain and hold Camarilla positions). IMHO, that is. [ quoted text not captured ]

Thomas R Wylie

Daniel Hoffman <dhof...@cris.com> wrote: >>> I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would >>> keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to >>> double check on that. >>If Bill Clinton emmigrates to Sweden, is he still the President?? I'm not a constitutional scholar, so I wouldn't know. But even if he isn't automatically out, how long do you think it's going to be before Congress impeaches him? >If Bill Clinton's passport is stolen is he no longer a US citizen? The >vampire isn't renouncing its camarilla status, it citizenship papers were >stolen. Why would the Camarilla possibly care why the vampire is no longer part of their sect? A member of the Sabbat is a member of the Sabbat, whether she went willingly, or got shanghaied with a shovel. It's highly unlikely that a Writ of Acceptance (which I'm assuming your "passport" reference is to) is carried around by a vampire, anyway. If a vampire is Accepted into the Cam, the local Cam vampires will know this and treat them accordingly. Certainly if a Prince defects to another sect, the Camarilla are going to force him out of his seat and select a new Prince. The only real question is whether it should be assumed in V:TES that the Cam knows it when a member has left the sect. [ quoted text not captured ]

Zaphod Beeblebrox

mal...@macatawa.org wrote: : On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Daniel Hoffman wrote: > I see no reason why a vampire that stops being a Camarilla member would > keep its Cam-only positions (e.g. Prince or Archon), but I'll have to > double check on that. How is the ruling on being a Camarilla member phrased? I have never seen an official statement on the concept. If the part about being a prince reads something like "only Camarilla vampires may be princes" then it seems a vampire who has his status revoked would lose the title. However, if the rule is that "only Camarilla vampires may call praxis seizure political actions (and other Camarilla political actions, such as Archon)" then the fact that your Ravnos, for instance, called the PS as a Camarilla is the only condition necessary, and he would retain the title. I'd like to see the active rule on this issue, if anyone knows where I might find it. -Dave Green

J. Andrew Lipscomb

In article <4pqcn7$r...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote: > Certainly if a Prince defects to another sect, the Camarilla are going to > force him out of his seat and select a new Prince. The only real question is > whether it should be assumed in V:TES that the Cam knows it when > a member has left the sect. Which brings up another question: does the Curse of the Tremere (cannot commit diablerie, a restriction on all AH Assamites) carryover to Embraced or Progenied Assamites? J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com> PGP keys by request

Daniel Hoffman

In article <4pqcn7$r...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >Certainly if a Prince defects to another sect, the Camarilla are going to >force him out of his seat and select a new Prince. The only real question is >whether it should be assumed in V:TES that the Cam knows it when >a member has left the sect. How does someone using a shattering blow to smash your writ equal a prince defecting to another sect or becoming unaligned? A writ should be treated like locquipment, once in play it is no longer considered equipment.

WildStar

[ quoted text not captured ] But then you have the problem of it getting Arsoned or Rampaged to the ground... and that doesn't make too much sense either.. :) WyldStar

Nicole Roy

WildStar (Wyld...@ix.netcom.com) wrote: : Daniel Hoffman wrote: : > How does someone using a shattering blow to smash your writ equal a prince : > defecting to another sect or becoming unaligned? A writ should be treated : > like locquipment, once in play it is no longer considered equipment. : But then you have the problem of it getting Arsoned or Rampaged to the : ground... and that doesn't make too much sense either.. :) 'like locquipment' != location. I believe that he meant that once a vampire was equipped with this particular piece of equipment, it should no longer be considered equipment, _or anything else_. If cannot be stolen, traded, shattered, arson'd, etc. It would act more like a non-unique title than a piece of equipment. Personally, I like the idea; It doesn't make sense that it can be destroyed, stolen, _or_ traded to another vampire, personally. Shane, not Nicole. Shane H.W. Travis | We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, tra...@sedsystems.ca | but others judge us by what we have already done. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Longfellow

DOUGDWISE

I just imagine that this "Writ of Acceptance" Is like those mysterious travel documents that allowed Victor Laszlo and Illsa Lund to leave Casablanca (i.e., cannot be questioned and usable by whoever has them.) The card test says that a Vampire who has the card is considered a member of the Camarilla. Presumably then, one who no longer has it is not considered a member and can no longer be Prince, Grand Poobah, or any other Camarilla official. It would seem to make the card less confusing to use. Doug