[LSJ] Obedience, etc.

Howdy, I've asked about this once before; I wonder if I could get an official ruling? At some point the text of Obedience changed. I don't have the old text in front of me, but I believe it used to say that it 'cancelled' the combat or ended the action without combat (like Voice of Madness, Hard Case, and Mental Maze). I thus had it in my one (silly) deck that was designed to attempt to withdraw, as entering combat will prevent withdrawal. Here's the current text (from the online card lists): Obedience [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, Sabbat:U, SW:PV, CE:U, Third:U] Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Dominate Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire. [dom] Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt the same action this turn. [DOM] As above, but do not untap the acting vampire. The text seems to imply that combat actually occurs, though Obedience ends it. Which would void withdrawal. It also makes for strange timing, as Obedience is then a reaction that is played in combat. (Sort of, as combat was about to begin before play, and ends after play.) Can you Psyche! a play of Obedience? (Presumably not, as Obedience explicitly ends the action - it isn't ending as a consequence of combat ending, which is the usual circumstance for Psyche!) Anyway, here's text for the other combat ending reactions I can think of: Voice of Madness [SW:U, CE:U, Third:PM] Cardtype: Reaction Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Dementation Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger vampire. [dem] Tap this reacting vampire. Combat does not occur. [DEM] As above, and the acting minion burns 1 blood or life. Hard Case [LotN:R] Cardtype: Reaction Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Fortitude Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger vampire. [for] Cancel the resulting combat. [FOR] As above, and destroy a weapon or vehicle on the acting minion. Mental Maze [LotN:C/PS2] Cardtype: Reaction Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Obfuscate Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or a younger vampire (play before combat, if any). [obf] End the action (with no combat). If this blocking minion is a Follower of Set, this card costs 1 less blood. [OBF] As above, and do not tap this blocking vampire. Does Obedience have functionally the same timing and effect as these other cards? Thanks, Alex

wumpus wrote: > Howdy, > > I've asked about this once before; I wonder if I could get an official > ruling? > > At some point the text of Obedience changed. I don't have the old > text in front of me, but I believe it used to say that it 'cancelled' > the combat or ended the action without combat (like Voice of Madness, > Hard Case, and Mental Maze). I thus had it in my one (silly) deck > that was designed to attempt to withdraw, as entering combat will > prevent withdrawal. History of Obedience: 1994 Jyhad printing: Untaps the reacting vampire. 19960708 Doesn't tap the reacting vampire, rather than actively untapping him. 19961001 Sabbat printing: Doesn't cancel combat. Leaves the reacting vampire tapped if he successfully blocked. 19991206 Cancels combat. Says that the reacting vampire is not tapped. 20001031 SW: Cancels combat. Says that the reacting vampire is not tapped. > Here's the current text (from the online card lists): > > Obedience [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, Sabbat:U, SW:PV, CE:U, Third:U] > Cardtype: Reaction > Discipline: Dominate > > Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with > an acting younger vampire. > [dom] Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and > end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt > the same action this turn. > [DOM] As above, but do not untap the acting vampire. > > The text seems to imply that combat actually occurs, though Obedience > ends it. Perhaps, but combat does not occur. Obedience is played before combat (it is not a combat card), and ends the combat before it starts (another way of saying: the combat is canceled). [ quoted text not captured ] If played by a blocking vampire, yes. Obedience can also be played without a block (say, when a Bum's Rush is successful), unlike the other examples you give.

Howdy, > > Does Obedience have functionally the same timing and effect as these > > other cards? > > If played by a blocking vampire, yes. > > Obedience can also be played without a block (say, when a Bum's Rush is > successful), unlike the other examples you give. Ah, subtle. Thanks!, Alex

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, LSJ wrote: > History of Obedience: > > 19961001 Sabbat printing: Doesn't cancel combat. Leaves the reacting vampire > tapped if he successfully blocked. Er...so it didn't do anything at all? Matt Morgan

In message <2008032816...@eris.io.com>, Matthew T. Morgan [ quoted text not captured ] From the Wizards card text file I have to hand: Card Title: Obedience Blood/Pool: n/a Clan/Discip.: Dominate Card Type: Reaction Card Text: Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire. Untap the acting vampire. The acting vampire is blocked, and he or she cannot attempt the same action again this turn. (S) As above, but do not untap the acting vampire. Artist: L. A. Williams Rarity: Uncommon -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.