Spying Missions

I've just read the text of a Spying Mission. It says... SUP: Only usable when a bleed is successful. Instead of removing pool from the Methuselah you're bleeding, put this card on the acting vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed. However, I could have sworn I 've seen someone stack "them", i.e. Bleed, spying mission, bleed again (same minion), spying mission again. Is the burning and getting +2 bleed optional, or compulsory on a subsequent bleed? Can they indeed stack, and if so how? (I remember this question coming up a long time ago, but I can't remember the answer.) DH Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > I've just read the text of a Spying Mission. It says... > > SUP: Only usable when a bleed is successful. Instead of removing pool > from the Methuselah you're bleeding, put this card on the acting > vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same > Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed. > > However, I could have sworn I 've seen someone stack "them", i.e. > Bleed, spying mission, bleed again (same minion), spying mission again. > > Is the burning and getting +2 bleed optional, or compulsory on a > subsequent bleed? Can they indeed stack, and if so how? from www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulings.html: "The bleed it is played on is considered unsuccessful. Previous Spying Missions won't be cashed in during that action." > (I remember this question coming up a long time ago, but I can't > remember the answer.) I've found the above web site a good place to start looking for card clarifications and errata ,) -- Juho

hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > I've just read the text of a Spying Mission. It says... > > SUP: Only usable when a bleed is successful. Instead of removing pool > from the Methuselah you're bleeding, put this card on the acting > vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same > Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed. > > However, I could have sworn I 've seen someone stack "them", i.e. > Bleed, spying mission, bleed again (same minion), spying mission > again. > > Is the burning and getting +2 bleed optional, or compulsory on a > subsequent bleed? Can they indeed stack, and if so how? Compulsory *if* the bleed is successful. If you play a second Spying Mission, though, the bleed is reduced to zero, and so is not successful. Thus, they stack. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <90r1ba$mct$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > I've just read the text of a Spying Mission. It says... > > > > SUP: Only usable when a bleed is successful. Instead of removing pool > > from the Methuselah you're bleeding, put this card on the acting > > vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same > > Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed. > > > > However, I could have sworn I 've seen someone stack "them", i.e. > > Bleed, spying mission, bleed again (same minion), spying mission > > again. > > > > Is the burning and getting +2 bleed optional, or compulsory on a > > subsequent bleed? Can they indeed stack, and if so how? > > Compulsory *if* the bleed is successful. Ah! That'll be it. Well done on Final Nights. I hope it's for loads of Ravnos and Settite cards. ...And some equiptment / votes for for making Independants Sabbat. ...And decent combat for Settites. etc. ;) DH [ quoted text not captured ]

>Compulsory *if* the bleed is successful. >If you play a second Spying Mission, though, the bleed is reduced to >zero, and so is not successful. Thus, they stack. I thought that what determines if a bleed is successful is if it does at least one pool worth of "damage." So how could the Missions, w/ their +2 modifier be used retroactively? In particular, how does this work with cards like Telepathic Counter? If minion bleeds at one with superior Spying Missions and I play inferior Telepathic Counter (so now he's bleeding for 0, not counting the Mission), wouldn't this be considered unsuccessful? Halcyan 2

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: > I thought that what determines if a bleed is successful is if it does > at least one pool worth of "damage." So how could the Missions, w/ It does. > their +2 modifier be used retroactively? In particular, how does this They get used when the bleed is successful. They do not get used "retroactively". > work with cards like Telepathic Counter? If minion bleeds at one with > superior Spying Missions and I play inferior Telepathic Counter (so > now he's bleeding for 0, not counting the Mission), wouldn't this be > considered unsuccessful? Yes, and so the Spying Missions wouldn't be burned (and the bleed wouldn't be boosted). [ quoted text not captured ]

> If you play a second Spying Mission, though, the bleed is reduced to > zero, and so is not successful. Thus, they stack. But when you do perform a successful bleed, wouldn't multiple Spying Missions go against the "cannot ply 2 of the same card on the same action by the same minion" rule? [ quoted text not captured ]

> >> If you play a second Spying Mission, though, the bleed is reduced to >> zero, and so is not successful. Thus, they stack. > > But when you do perform a successful bleed, wouldn't multiple Spying > Missions go against the "cannot ply 2 of the same card on the same > action by the same minion" rule? But each card is *played* on different actions. You can equip with 2 Raven Spies on different turns, and you get +2 intercept, yes? You only burn the cards all at once, but they're just cards in play being burned then, not "action modifiers" per se. -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta

In article <910df3$iv2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, kab...@softhome.net writes >> If you play a second Spying Mission, though, the bleed is reduced to >> zero, and so is not successful. Thus, they stack. > >But when you do perform a successful bleed, wouldn't multiple Spying >Missions go against the "cannot ply 2 of the same card on the same >action by the same minion" rule? No, because the cards were played on the actions you played them on (i.e. when you moved them from your hand to the vampire). You merely burn multiple copies of the same card later on. There is nothing preventing that. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "It's hard to carry on when you feel all alone. Now I've swung back again, it's worse than it was before. If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor." - James, "Sit Down"

In article <90r25m$n3k$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] My absolutely highest wish is to see a 6 cap setite with all clan disciplines at superior, and a 5 cap with superior in 2 :) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <911fda$c5l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] yes obfuscate and presence. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:16:43 GMT, theve...@my-deja.com wrote: >> My absolutely highest wish is to see a 6 cap setite with all clan >> disciplines at superior, and a 5 cap with superior in 2 :) >> >yes obfuscate and presence. Oh, yeah, that's definitely what the game needs; more stealth bleed. Marijava Ghouls and Jost Werner and all the guys with inferior in both aren't bad enough; now we want to help the superiors along? Yuck. This idea sounds, frankly, pukey. =) -- Derek Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

In article <aiq83ts42agp4v10u...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:16:43 GMT, theve...@my-deja.com wrote: > > >> My absolutely highest wish is to see a 6 cap setite with all clan > >> disciplines at superior, and a 5 cap with superior in 2 :) > >> > >yes obfuscate and presence. > > Oh, yeah, that's definitely what the game needs; more stealth bleed. > Marijava Ghouls and Jost Werner and all the guys with inferior in both > aren't bad enough; now we want to help the superiors along? Yuck. > This idea sounds, frankly, pukey. =) > i wanted that combo to have a reliable way of getting votes through. but yes it could be abused by some unscrupulous types. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] inferior Obfuscate provides you with Forgotten Labyrinth, which is an extra +2 stealth for your vote. That gives you +3 stealth, out of range of any single intercept card, and most importantly, out of range of 2nd Tradition. superior OBF isn't needed to make them stealth-vote well; it just helps. :) [ quoted text not captured ]

>inferior Obfuscate provides you with Forgotten Labyrinth, which is an >extra +2 stealth for your vote. That gives you +3 stealth, out of >range of any single intercept card, and most importantly, out of range >of 2nd Tradition. I don't know if it's technically an intercept card (since it doesn't + intercept), but a single Veiled Sight can hose it. But then again just about no one plays Chimerstry. Anyway, I do agree with the power of Forgotten Labyringth! Halcyan 2

> My absolutely highest wish is to see a 6 cap setite with all clan > disciplines at superior, and a 5 cap with superior in 2 :) I actually would love to see the 5 cap have superior serpentis and presence. Superior obf is normally unnessary if you have any stealth cards at all (unless going against dedicated intercept), and for the majority of them it is not that great of an increase when compared to serpentis and presence. Just my 2 cents, Norman S. Brown Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <9133oi$jul$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes >I actually would love to see the 5 cap have superior serpentis and >presence. Superior obf is normally unnessary if you have any stealth >cards at all (unless going against dedicated intercept), and for the >majority of them it is not that great of an increase when compared to >serpentis and presence. Certainly there is room for maneuver as to the specifics, but I'd certainly like to see more small-ish obf/pre options, like those suggested, for stealth-bleed and stealth-vote. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "It's hard to carry on when you feel all alone. Now I've swung back down [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <DhckDBE5...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In article <9133oi$jul$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes > >I actually would love to see the 5 cap have superior serpentis and > >presence. Superior obf is normally unnessary if you have any stealth > >cards at all (unless going against dedicated intercept), and for the > >majority of them it is not that great of an increase when compared to > >serpentis and presence. > > Certainly there is room for maneuver as to the specifics, but I'd > certainly like to see more small-ish obf/pre options, like those > suggested, for stealth-bleed and stealth-vote. I would love to see a 3 cap with obf and pre, and there are already two 4 caps with that combonation of disciplines who are Followers of Set. Comments Welcome, [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <20001211123900...@ng-cs1.aol.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] One of the guys in our playgroup plays chimerstry quite often and while i also agree that forgotten labyrinth is a good card we regularly come up against +3 intercept in our playgroup so it's still not enough. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <913ph7$7ar$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes >I would love to see a 3 cap with obf and pre, Lena Rowe if you aren't bothered about Setite. (Which is a pity, since a combined Stealth/Bleed/Corruption deck would be fun.) > and there are already two >4 caps with that combonation of disciplines who are Followers of Set. True. Unfortunately, obf/pre does badly in just above weenie, 5, 6, 7 sort of area. A 7 capacity "OBF PRE ser <something> Non-Camarilla <Setite> has 1 vote" would be just luvverly, along with a 5 like PRE SER obf. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Take more 0-stealth actions and watch all those intercept decks explode gloriously. Play a bruise-and-bleed deck or two. Then, after the metagame has normalized (regular +3 intercept is a bit high and means your people are way way WAY too block-happy) a little bit, go back and try stealth-vote with the Setites. It really does work much better than you think it does, and it doesn't take OBF/PRE to do it either. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <CsH0wLEV...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In article <913ph7$7ar$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes > >I would love to see a 3 cap with obf and pre, > > Lena Rowe if you aren't bothered about Setite. (Which is a pity, since > a combined Stealth/Bleed/Corruption deck would be fun.) > > > and there are already two > >4 caps with that combonation of disciplines who are Followers of Set. > > True. Unfortunately, obf/pre does badly in just above weenie, 5, 6, 7 > sort of area. A 7 capacity "OBF PRE ser <something> Non-Camarilla > <Setite> has 1 vote" would be just luvverly, along with a 5 like PRE SER > obf. That would fit well with the two eight caps with 2 votes each. [ quoted text not captured ]