Action Timing Issues Q's

Folks: 1. In my playgroup, I notice a number of folks use Cats' Guidance during or even at the end of combat. However, strictly speaking, if I understand the card correctly, Cats' Guidance can only be used after the block is successful and before combat begins (before pre-range). Correct? 2. Let's say that a 1-blood Ingrid diablerizes another vampire with lots of blood and with a Flamethrower. Fancifully speaking, can Ingrid get to Heidelberg Castle before the Blood Hunt catches up with her, so she can give her blood and weapon to another vampire? You can only use the Castle between actions, but I am not sure whether the Blood Hunt is considered a part of the action during which the vampire was diablerized. LMK, LSJ. Danke, Madman -- Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Madman2001 wrote: > 1. In my playgroup, I notice a number of folks use Cats' Guidance > during or even at the end of combat. However, strictly speaking, if I > understand the card correctly, Cats' Guidance can only be used after > the block is successful and before combat begins (before pre-range). > Correct? Nope: "Combat occurs as part of the block - not after the block. (So Cat's Guidance and Freak Drive are played after the combat, not before)." [RTR 19980623] beware: rulemonger gives different results for cat's guidance vs. cats' guidance, since the latest version of the card name and the name as referred to in the rulings are different :( it would prolly be better to put the rulings and the card text on the same page... also, as long as we're on the subject of multiple names, there doesn't seem to be an entry for Renagade Garou, to go with Physcic Projection and Venture Justicar.

david hathorn <dhat...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote: > beware: rulemonger gives different results for cat's guidance vs. > cats' guidance, since the latest version of the card name and the Oops. I'll fix that. Thanks. > name as referred to in the rulings are different :( it would > prolly be better to put the rulings and the card text on the same > page... They're available on the "same page": the power search page. > also, as long as we're on the subject of multiple names, there doesn't > seem to be an entry for Renagade Garou, to go with Physcic Projection > and Venture Justicar. OK. I'll add that, too. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

>2. Let's say that a 1-blood Ingrid diablerizes another vampire with >lots of blood and with a Flamethrower. Fancifully speaking, can Ingrid >get to Heidelberg Castle before the Blood Hunt catches up with her, so >she can give her blood and weapon to another vampire? You can only use >the Castle between actions, but I am not sure whether the Blood Hunt is >considered a part of the action during which the vampire was >diablerized. Well, with the case of blood it doesn't matter because excess blood is removed immediately. Thus even if there wasn't any bloodhunt called, the extra blood would go to the blood bank before being transferable with the Castle. However, if the question was concerning equipment, then I'm not exactly sure. My instincts tell me that there wouldn't be enough time to use Heidelburg since Blood Hunt is supposed to be immediate and all but...LSJ? Halcyan 2

On 26 Apr 2000, Halcyan 2 wrote: > However, if the question was concerning equipment, then I'm not exactly sure. > My instincts tell me that there wouldn't be enough time to use Heidelburg since > Blood Hunt is supposed to be immediate and all but...LSJ? However,a blood hunt is not part of any action, by virtue of the fact that you cannot play reactions or action modifiers. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "But I don't have the right to be with you tonight, so please leave me alone with no saviour in sight. I will sleep safe and sound with nobody around me."

***** New Rules Analysis Included Below ***** halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: > >2. Let's say that a 1-blood Ingrid diablerizes another vampire with > >lots of blood and with a Flamethrower. Fancifully speaking, can > >Ingrid get to Heidelberg Castle before the Blood Hunt catches up > >with her, so she can give her blood and weapon to another vampire? > >You can only use the Castle between actions, but I am not sure > >whether the Blood Hunt is considered a part of the action during > >which the vampire was diablerized. > > Well, with the case of blood it doesn't matter because excess blood > is removed immediately. Thus even if there wasn't any bloodhunt > called, the extra blood would go to the blood bank before being > transferable with the Castle. Well, the blood in excess of capacity would drain off, but the example seems to be concerned about the newly-gained blood that is not in excess of capacity. > However, if the question was concerning equipment, then I'm not > exactly sure. My instincts tell me that there wouldn't be enough > time to use Heidelburg since Blood Hunt is supposed to be immediate > and all but...LSJ? Good instincts. The "proper" answer is that Heidelburg cannot be used between a diablerie-equipment-move [6.5.5.2] and the diablerie-bloodhunt [6.5.5.5]. As James Coupe points out (in a parallel response to Halcyan2's message), the Blood Hunt (as previously stated by me) is not part of the action, which makes the "proper" answer hard to justify. Other mildly interesting scenarios could be developed with the use of Day/Dawn Diablerie (can you burn him in a Blood Hunt before he goes to torpor? or can you wait until after he goes to torpor so that he can't cast his votes, assuming he has a title?) And the question of whether a Freak Drive is played before or after the Blood Hunt would come up. So the "problem" is not really the Castle, it's in the hard-to-pin status (and timing) of the Blood Hunt referendum. The Blood Hunt should be part of the "resolution" of a diablerie (as specified in the Revised Rulebook, section 6.5.5). The Blood Hunt itself is not an action (as specified in each of the rulebooks) - it can't be blocked, can be called by a "non-active" Methuselah, and action modifiers and reaction cards cannot be played. I've been overstating the last part when I've said "modifiers and reactions cannot be played because there is no action to modify or react to". The case is properly stated as the rulebooks state: "calling the Blood Hunt is not an action" - which doesn't mean that there is no action taking place. Action Modifiers (like Bewitching Oration) and Reaction cards (like Surprise Influence, Delaying Tactics, and Political Backlash) cannot be played on the Blood Hunt referendum because *that* is not an action - not because there is no action at all. To sum up: The Blood Hunt is conducted at the time of diablerie (during the resolution of a Diablerie action, for instance). After the Blood Hunt, the acting vampire (if he's still around) can play Freak Drive or be affected by "after action" effects like Daring the Dawn or Day Operation, etc. Hopefully that will resolve all of the conflicts about that. My apologies for the earlier (misleading) overstatements. [ quoted text not captured ]